Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Does anyone have the stats I just wonder how many wins have come from the front row with this years format?

I know even some of Schatz wins have been from the front, but most of his arent,the test are usually front row.

Points at the Grove National is a good idea but probably will put Schatz and Dewease on the Front Row Saturday.

Just a quick look at the results and it looks like about 50% are won from the front row give or take. I would say this is about average over the last few years. I think a more interesting stat would the percentage of winners from the front row on 1/2 mile tracks vs 3/8 and smaller. As fast and lock down as these cars are anymore a lot can be said about "dirty air" on the half mile tracks.

Thru 72 races thus far this year:

Front Row: 42 wins
2nd Row: 19 wins
3rd Row:  7 wins (Schatz [4], Saldana, Sweet, Wilson)

Schatz is the only driver to win from a starting sport outside the front 3 rows and he did it 4 times from:
4th Row
5th Row
7th Row
8th Row

Will have to go back over the data from the last few years to see how this years format compares to having the heats inverted.

I think the Outlaws have an open invitation.  If you're upset about them winning from the front row, they'll be in your town soon enough to put them in their place and reverse the trend.

That's the great thing about the Outlaws... Everyone has a chance to beat the best in the world. 

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

2015 - 75 races

Front Row: 35 wins
2nd Row: 23 wins
3rd Row:  9 wins  (Schatz [5], Zomer, Sweet, Sides, McMahan)
4th Row:  2 wins (Friesen, Darrah)
5th Row:  5 wins  (Schatz [2], Blaney, Dietrich, Wilson)
7th Row:  1 win  (Stewart)

So with the change in format and just looking at 2015 for now, yes the front row is winning about 11% more of the races in 2016.   Also, 2015 saw more winning from outside the first 3 rows and many more people being able to do it - could be attributed to the invert placing slower cars on the pole of the follow the leader heats and a spot in the dash

I'll get to 2012-2014 tomorrow for further comparison

Just curious as to how the change in heat race format affects the results of the winner's starting position in the A-main?  The A main line up is determined by the dash, and under the old format the fast qualifiers were in the dash as long as they finished in a transfer spot in their heat race.  Now they have to finish in the top 2 in their heat to qualify for the dash.  (The biggest thing, in my opinion, that the new format has done is to make EVERY SPOT in the heat races matter.)   I guess my point is that the new format hasn't affected the A-main line up by putting the "fast guys" up front, because they were (most likely) in the dash under the "old" format as well.  Under the "old" format, the dash was lined up straight up by times, then inverted by 0, 4, 6, or 8 (4 heats) or 0, 4, or 6 (3 heats).   Now, the dash is lined up by heat race finish (winners, then second place finishers, and again inverted by 0, 4, 6, or 8 (4 heats) or 0, 4, or 6 (3 heats). 

Big surprise, defending the new format. The WoO sure as hell won't put together a new format that benefits the outsiders. The results this year pretty much sums that up!

I saw it as a man asking a legitimate question, not defending the new format.  It's their ball, they can do what they want with it and they fill the place about everywhere they go, soooooooooooo.....

THE MAIN PROBLEM I SEE WITH THE NEW fORMAT IS IT PRETTY MUCH TAKE TAKES THE GUYS THAT TIME 9 THRU 16 OUT OF CONTENTION, Schatz probobly one of few winners to come out of that group.

When they started on the front row of a heat they could still make the front row of the dash,and Johnny wasnt it only the top 2 timers that were in the dash if  they didnt make top 2? ( In a heat) 

My problem with the old format was giving slower times an advantage.  In a 4 heat format, Q times 5-8 were on the 2nd row.  Times 9-16 were on the front.  The winner advanced to the dash along with the top 4 times who didn't win the heat.  That left those cars 5-8 on the outside most of the time.  Why should a car that qualified 16th have a better chance of making the dash than a car that qualifed 5th?   

Didn't say they couldn't do what they want....regardless, and I follow the WoO as close as anyone, the best racing right now takes place with the All Stars.....and they invert 6 in their heats if I'm not mistaken.

Couple things here.

1. This new format was developed by Johny Gibon himself.  He has even told us this.  With that in mind, I see no reason for him to not defend it.

2. Do you honestly think the WoO guys are going to sit down and say "Hey, let's develop a system that benefits the slower guys, yea, let's put all the slow guys up front for the heat races!!!"  Ain't gonna happen.

3. Passing points is out of the question.  In the long run you will end up with alot of torn up equipment as the really slow guys will be major road blocks for the competive guys coming through.  Also, with the lack of track prep these days, you could end up with a follow the leader deal even early on in the night.

4. If the outsiders are as fast as you proclaim, they should have no problem with this system.  After all, it is the same for all.

5.  Do I like the system? No I do not.  But everyone has their own opinion as to how it should work.  The thing is, it is not our series.  The WoO is trying to find a format that one, puts on a good show and two, doesn't put their guys in harms way.  After all, they do need to take care of their own.  Without "their" guys they have no show.

All in all we have to ask ourselves: Is there a perfect format?  Probably not that all of us will agree on.  I would say the WoO guys will continue to tweak it IF they feel it is neccessary.  We all know the format before we buy our tickets.  We can choose to go ahead and pony up the money or we can choose to not go. 

These are my thoughts and I am sure some will disagree.  At the end of the day, the WoO is the top traveling series in the world and I want to see them as much as I can.  I'll be spending the money but again, that is my choice.

I like the concept of "where you finish in your heat determines your starting position in the feature" in this new format. I just wish they would have continued inverting four for the heats.  With the track usually being pretty narrow during the heats, you would have had the fastest qualifiers probably not making the dash, but end up starting in positions 9-15 for the A.  The track will have widened out by that point, and you'd probably see some guys make some charges.

Auto racing has pretty much always put fan enjoyment over what's fair to the racers. This format puts it a little more in the racers hands and I'm not sure it has made the racing worse.

I like this format the best of all the formats through the years. Formats have been dash for trophy, main lined up by times. Heats invert 6 take 4 to main on time, have to be in top 4 to make dash on time. Heats invert 4 take 5 or 6 to make main on time, dash have to be in top 6 on time. Heats invert 4 take 5 or 6 to main on time, dash heat winner and fastest time in top 5 lined up by time..

I like the newest one with fast timers on front row of heat. As I was told by a driver and car owner why punish the fast timer putting them in the middle of the heat when you can't pass during the heats. it gets Time where it should be during qualifying and it sets the heat line ups.

The one thing I would like would be the pill draw sets you in a heat race. Yep it could be stacked with all outlaws in one heat and the locals in one heat. The dirt late models have been doing this for years. I knew of this back in the early 2000's.

ASCS ran into a problem one night in washington state one heat was all ASCS national cars and one heat was all local cars. lol ASCS national went nope not going there and changed the line ups so there were so many national cars in each heat.

Just to answer a question: under the old format, the dash was always 8 cars, with either the 5 fastest qualifiers (3 heats) or 4 fastest qualifiers (4 heats) that finished in a transfer spot making the dash (and joining the heat winners). 

The current WoO format is about as good as it gets, as far as I am concerned.  It's simple, it flows from the qualifying time trials into the heats (you don't need to know the times, because they are lined up by them), and from watching the heats you not only know if your guy made the dash or main, but where they will line up (pre-redraw).  It's so much better and easier to understand (even my 11 year old daughter gets it) than points, or passing points or falling back on qualifying time trial times to determine where you start.   With the lack of good PA systems and most tracks not having large video boards, this system is nearly perfect.  Saves a lot of equipment, saves a lot of track clean-up time, and you always know where your drivers stand, regardless of whether or not you know their QTT position.  Went to a WoO show last weekend, could barely hear Johnny during time trials or while the engines are turning, and I don't recall a video board being visible from where I sat, but didn't really need to know because of the flow of the format. 

For my own curiosity, is the B-main lined up by qualifying time trials results or heat finishing order? 

Thanx,
Bruce

"support your local track and stay positive"

Pretty sure the B reverts back to time trials.