Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Donny is only 25 laps behind Steve Kinser for all time laps led during the Knoxville Nationals. Steve has 301 and Donny sits at 276. Amazing. 

I think that 276 doesn't include the 15 or so laps he led this year.

I'm still quite stunned that he only led 15....

No Doug Wolfgang and the race being almost twice as long makes a big difference too.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Not trying to take anything away from Donny because his last 10+ years are second to none but the last 7 A Mains have been 50 laps whereas Steves were 30 laps.

-Austin Rankin

I thought it was how many races you win, not laps led.  Steve has 12 Knoxville National wins, 20 times WOO season champion and has won 876 features with different organizations.  Top that.

Steve at 39 had 354 WoO wins, was a 13 time WoO champ, had 9 Nationals titles. 

Donny at 39 has 220 WoO wins, is a 7 time WoO champ and has 9 Nationals titles. 

Comparing laps led by a driver running 50 lap races to a driver who ran 30 lap races seems totally pointless. 

A better comparison would be PERCENTAGE of all laps run that they led.

How much do they pay for most laps led? So, if a racer led the first 49 laps but lost the race, does that make him the winner? or the better racer?  Wins and Championships is what matters.

Since the year 2000, Donny has finished 1st or 2nd - 15 of the 17 years.

Not taking anything away from Donny Schatz,but while Kinser was racking up 600+ wins Sammy was collecting 300 or so and Wolfgang collected 150+. I think if you take away Donny today nobody really dominants the WoO tour?

I tend to look at it your way.....keeping in mind that Sammy missed quite a few years and ran some partial years....Doug ran 4 maybe 5 full seasons with the WoO and the rest of the time ran only the big races against them. Doug's career was essentially over in 1992 after the WoO were in existance only 14 years. Another thing about comparing Donny's Knoxville wins with Steve's.....Steve ran against drivers that had multiple wins at the Nationals....Wolfgang, Lasoski, and Mark Kinser and 4 additional drivers that won the Nationals once. Other than Jason Johnson and Tim Shaffer, how many "in their prime drivers" have won even one Knoxville Nationals since Donny's streak started? Again, Schatz is a fantastic driver, no doubt. But if he's running against competition that can't seem to get the job done at the biggest race of the year, what is the measuring stick for what his accomplishments are?  

It's like the old the glass is either "half empty" or "half full" analogy. 

I choose to look at it as, today's drivers are good, but Schatz has been that dominant, no one else can really break through. The fact that only Johnson and Shaffer have Knoxville wins over the last decade is more of a testament to Schatz's domination, than an indictment of today's Outlaws.  "Half full".

Of course, you're from the older generation which usually thinks sprint car racing ended somewhere around 93 and nobody will ever be as good as the fellas from the days of yore. The racing will never be as good as it was back when (insert name here) was running against (insert name here) at (insert track here) in (insert year here).  No matter what happens, no one will surpass your heroes from the halcyon days. And really, that's fine.  A lot of people have that opinion. I heard it expressed a lot last week, I just don't agree. "Half empty".

Jeez fellas, I wasn't trying to start a pissing match. I was just pointing out a stat that shocked me. There can be arguments on both sides of this but the fact that Kinser and Schatz are even being compared speaks volumes. Sure Schatz has led 50 lappers but they are still laps led at the biggest sprint car race on the planet. Kinser won in dominate equiptment back when the cars were a lot harder to drive. Schatz is winning when they almost all have equal equiptment. Who is better? I don't care. As a fan I am just excited that I get/got to see 2 of the greatest compete on the biggest stage and show us that their will to win is second to none. 

I respect your opinion, but don't think for a minute that I'm biased because I came from a certain era. To state that I or others my age think sprint car racing "came to an end in or around '93" would be like me saying that in your generation you think sprint car racing didn't begin until '93! Both statements are and should be considered ridiculous! How do I think the Foyt generation would have done in todays equipment? Considering that those drivers faced death at a much higher rate, man handled sprint cars on skinny knobby tires and rutted tracks without power steering, I think today they would find it a piece of cake.

In motorsports, it is impossible to compare drivers of one era to drivers of any other era. Can’t be done, to many variables.  In every form of motorsport there always seems to be one true stand out for every generation and most of the time there are others that are close. The issue with Donny is that he really does not have an equal or a consistent one other driver challenging him day in and day out. He does not have a Wolfe or Slammer.

The record speaks for itself, in top shelf winged sprint car racing; Donny is head and shoulders above the rest at this point in time. So much so that most of the others readily admit that fact. He has most of them whooped before the green flies. Ragin Cajin not withstanding. Congrats by the way, hell of a job kid!

It may be “fun” to compare drivers from different generations, but it is a lost cause and  a moot point. Even comparing stats. does not really matter much, such as laps lead and the like. Even when you’re talking total wins or wins to a certain equal point in two drivers careers, it is not valid. Again, too many variables.

To those that are in the “Anyone but Donny” crowd, too bad you do not appreciate and enjoy watching the best at work. Donny has if figured out to a level few ever do. Just like watching Steve in his day, watching Donny is a treat. Some say he is a boring driver, go stand in the infield up against the rail and watch him work, you won’t be calling any of them boring no more. How often does Donny wreck, how often did Steve Wreck?

Here is what I would like to see. All body work around the driver must be clear, so people can see these drivers saw on that wheel. Even at Knoxville where the plan is to drive it straight as possible the drivers are working that wheel like mad. Hard to see that from the stands. We always are looking for ways to improve the experience and get new folk into the seats, I think that would help. If you were around when Gary, Larry, Rollie and the like we’re at it, the fans could watch them work and it made a hell of a difference. If you weren’t around look at some film or photos.

RANT OVER.