Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Getting things lined up for our annual motorhome trip from California to Knoxville for the Nationals to watch Schatz win again. I got to thinking, will Schatz surpass Steve Kinser in Nationals wins. Schatz has 9, the mark is 12. Schatz needs 4 more to put his name above The King's.

I say yes he will, with a doubt. What do you say?

I agree...especially if they keep it 50 laps with a fuel stop. He has already proven that is plenty of time to get to the front no matter how poor his qualifying night was. Plus, he could possibly miss the set up once, but given a second chance during the fuel stop makes beating him far less unlikely.

Good point, maybe some of Schatz's wins need an asterick behind them.

Some day he will break down or get mixed up in a crash but unless that happens l dont know why he wouldnt breaks the kings record. I dont think he is as good as Steve was...Steve is 3rd on Knoxville's all time win list...to my knowledge they were all WoO wins at 57. 

Also to add to your point, Schatz isn't racing against anywhere near as tough of competition.....Wolfgang, Swindell, Mark Kinser, Blaney, Haude, Lasoski and several others. Check out the all time WoO wins list as well as the all time Knoxville track wins list and take a look at the competition Kinser faced when he was winning all those races. There are only a few that Kinser and Schatz share as competitors, but those drivers overlapped Kinsers declining years and Schatz's prime years.

Blazer00, I'd agree with you that Wolfgang, Swindell, Kinser, Blaney, Haude, Lasoski are all greats, but I'll disagree that Schatz is NOT racing againt anywhere near as tough of competition. 

There are so many drivers now that have good equipment and engines, and more money, so I'd argue that the playing field is more level today than it was 30 years ago, which makes Schatz dominance at the Nats even more impressive. 

I'm not a Schatz fan, but I do think he'll suprass Steve's Knoxville Nats record. I wont' say he's better, but to say that Schatz competition now isn't as good as Kinsers was is simply not true. 

#ANYBODYBUTSCHATZ 

Keep It Real

Steve Kinser in his prime made the competition look like Donnie Schatz's competition looks now.

Since the Nationals went to 50 laps  Schatz' starting position, running position at the break and finishing position. 

2010  - 4 - 2 -2  (led after Sammy flipped, but lost and engine and still finished 2nd)

2011  - 13 - 1 - 1 *

2012  - 5 -1 -1 *

2013  - 21 - 4 -1 *

2014  - 1 - 1 - 1 *

2015   - 1 - 1 -1*

Just for good measure, 2009 when it was 40 laps  - 6 - 3 - 1 *

He seemed pretty unbeatable with or without the fuelstops those years....

Except the drivers I mentioned that Steve competed against have a combined total of 14 Knoxville Nationals titles during their primes and in his. How many of the current drivers in their primes that Schatz competes against have a Knoxville Nationals title?

Steve won with and without a wing. I say take them back off and the dominance of any one driver will cease

40 laps on a big half mile is still a very long sprint race by today's standards. All of Kinser's wins came when the race was 30 laps.

Another advantage Schatz has enjoyed is the opening of Nascar to sprint car drivers. What if Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Dave Blaney and Kasey Khane had never had that opportunity? Those drivers most likely would habe been racing in the WoO for perhaps the last 20 years. Not to mention the younger guys who like Kyle Larson, Chris Bell, and Rico Abreu who have departed to Nascar.

Schatz is no way comparable to Kinser! Kinser was phenomenol in his prime and his prime lasted a long damn time. Schatz is very good and I dont by any means discount his talent but there will never be another Steve Kinser! Even if Donny wins 20 Nationals he could never fill the Kings shoes.

+1 There is only 1 King of Sprint Car Racing!

You can tell an ass... but, you can't tell 'em much

Wait...your argument is that Schatz's dominance is not as impresive because other drivers don't have as many Nationals wins. So if Schatz would have less Nationals wins than he does and let others win, it would somehow be more impressive than winning nine times in 10 years? (Scratches head.)

So every time Schatz win the Nationals, it gets less inpressive because other drivers don't win?

Schtaz has nine wins in 10 years and is not even 40 years old yet. I don't see any reason why Schatz's dominance or prime won't also last a "long damn time." It's not like he is 55 years old and his era of dominance is over.

Kinser was undeniably great, but the cars have also never been more competitive than they are in this era.  I wouldn't put either the domiance of Kinser or Schatz above the other. They are each the dominant driver of their respective generation.

Well yeh.....and you helped make my point. If there is no one else able to win that race, then dominance by a single driver is more than possible if he's the best of his day. Or do you think todays "rest of the field" is comparable to Wolfgang, Sammy and the rest I mentioned? I sure don't. JMO of course. But not a one of the drivers today other than Schatz have put up the numbers in their careers those guys did. And I didn't say Schatz's run isn't impressive. Why do you always read shit into a post?

agreed. We've had dominating drivers in different generations from AJ Foyt, Jan Opperman, Steve Kinser and Donny Schatz.  I know the thread is about Knoxville Dominance, but these drivers have all dominated at tracks all across the U.S.  there will be another driver rise to take the Throne when Donny starts winding down his career.  The eras that these gentlemen all raced in were different circumstances, as will it be with the Next generation. All of them have earned a special place in history and their Legacies should be respected. In my opinion.

Kudos to this comment. And I'd argue that Lasoski is even more relevant now than he was then with this resurgence in his $$$ and backing, as well as being at Knoxville night in and night out again. Won't cheer for him, but you absolutely cannot discredit what the guy does at Nationals.

He's been untouchable. It's taken wrecks and a lost cylinder to slow him down over the past fifteen years, and he still came close to winning that one.

I'd love to see someone else win (wouldn't we all?) but it's going to take the race going back to forty laps for someone to do it. He's simply too good to be beat with a guaranteed pit stop.

he was nearly too good to be beat before the pit stop started at the 49th Nationals.  He finished 1st in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 without a pitstop.

How many times did he finish 2nd before he finally won?  5 or 6 times?  And many of those drivers mentioned by another poster above were still racing and in their prime when he was in contention and finishing 2nd.

Were they really higher competion than today's drivers or did they win the years that Steve and Karl broke?  Teams today have so many less mechanical issues than they did in the 80's and 90's that there is less attrition.  Really hard to say that Donny has no competition.  if anything, there are more cars capable of winning today than at any point in the History of the Nationals.

I really get sick of hearing everyone complain about the fuel stops... It's how the natioanls is ran... If you don't like it start your own nationals and see how many cars you get to show up... I think Knoxville is doing ok with 100+ cars every year