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Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

Topic: USAC Go home your ruining 410 sprintcars
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usacanbiteme
February 21, 2007 at 08:20:01 PM
Joined: 09/05/2005
Posts: 13
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Every thing they do is dreadfull ,. I cant stand em. But Ide like to ask everyone here, PLease list positive points since usac has been running the show.(into the ground) and lets see if positives outweigh negitives, shall we

 



KOP
MyWebsite
February 21, 2007 at 08:50:10 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 1913
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OK, I'll start.............here's one plus: They hired Steve Ostling to try and get some consistent officiating and over all consistency. They need a guy like Steve to be put in place. If "big brother" will leave him be and let him do his job, Steve will do OK.

After that.......there's not much I can come up with, unless we can count those pretty uniforms!



BIGFISH
MyWebsite
February 21, 2007 at 08:56:54 PM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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I think this thread is about played out if we're just going to list positive points.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

KOP
MyWebsite
February 21, 2007 at 09:00:50 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 1913
Reply

hahaha Fish! That was too good.



Doug Bushey
February 21, 2007 at 09:20:29 PM
Joined: 12/22/2004
Posts: 444
Reply

Well...

First of all, not sure if there would be a locally sanctioned 410 traditional sprint car series on dirt out here had USAC not negotiated to bring both history and national exposure to the local series. Second, the Oval Nationals became a national points race that seems to attract more teams than the NWWC ever did. And third, it's provided a more direct connection to the national teams and thus has helped some of our finest local talent land well-funded, competitive rides in the national series and could potentially help launch their professional careers.

Just my observations. But then again, who am I? Well, to add further discussion to the matter...

No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. I have no reason to defend anyone or any sanction. However, your question had me thinking...who could do a better job for our series? Probably no one. It's not easy to do. Although they may blunder, USAC has the most experience around for this type of business. They've remained the premier organization for open wheel cars for years.

Most of the complaints I read on here, or hear in the pits, are the same age-old gripes about money and officiating that I've heard in the pits for over 30 years. This sport is expensive. This sport is risky and dangerous. This sport is not "nice". This sport is subjective. This sport requires money, time, energy, skill, luck, and most of all passion. When you don't have all of the above, it's easy to get down. When folks are down, they look for authority to throw blame to. Is that USAC's fault?

USAC has implemented some things lately that cost money and are unconventional. However, I truly believe that they have driver safety and the interest of the sport in mind. I don't think that any of the rules, new or old, have really changed the overall competition at all. Ask yourself if the entertainment value of the fan has been lessened. I'm sure you'll agree it hasn't. We all still show up and we are still rewarded with great racing. Ask yourself if the desire to race has been lessened for the drivers. I'm sure you must agree that it hasn't either. The pits are still alive every race weekend.

Whatever. Let them run it into the ground...the clay is wetter and tackier down there!!!

Doug Bushey - Open Wheel Fan


Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent 

CRA91
February 21, 2007 at 10:48:28 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 428
Reply

Another plus is we have a lot better insurance coverage if we get injured at the track. And yes Steve O is making a difference in enforcing the rules,as is evident at the first couple of races,so much so that some A$$hole keyed his truck after the first race! That moron needs to be drawn and quartered for giving everyone else a bad image.Usac isn't perfect,Scra wasn't perfect and I don't believe there is a perfect sanctioning body out there,someone is always going to be pissed off about something.You take the cards that are dealt to you and you either play'um or fold'um.

usaccanbiteme,

Is there anyone holding a gun to your head to make you go to every race? I guess if you don't like what they are doing or where they have races at,then STAY HOME and after reading your post in the Vegas thread,I think you need to take your Prozac and calm down.



KOP
MyWebsite
February 22, 2007 at 12:36:18 AM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 1913
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I agree about that deal where Steve got his truck keyed. Damn idiots. I also know of the reward $$$$ leading to the person(s) responsible. Someone should come foreword w/o $$$$ having to play a part. However, if it takes the cash to get someone to come forward, then so be it. The idiot who did that needs his fingers amputated !! Steve is a great guy and is only trying to make things better!!!!

John Lemon

Owasso, Okla.



RichCee
February 22, 2007 at 10:39:55 AM
Joined: 01/17/2007
Posts: 277
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I think you could set up a little bot to automatically create a post every monday that contains some variation of this topic. Yes, this horse has been properly tenderized. Having said that, it's hard to pass up commenting. Mr. Bushey while your point #2 is correct, 1 and 3 are debatable. Okay, I'm being generous. #3 is laughable. Who exactly has been "provided a more direct connection to the national teams and thus has helped some of our finest local talent land well-funded, competitive rides in the national series and could potentially help launch their professional careers." If you are referring to Mr. Gardner, it kind of sounded like he needed a ride more than he was provided a magic carpet to Indy. And I'm afraid it's about 10 years too late for him to advance beyond USAC. Has anyone else received as much as a whiff of a National ride since USAC came into town? I second Terry's opinion that Steve will make a difference. After talking to him, it's very apparent that he gave this a lot of thought. Ultimately, all organizations come down to people. If you can get the right people in place, things will work.



racing96fan
February 22, 2007 at 11:12:22 AM
Joined: 09/09/2006
Posts: 52
Reply

You can find faults with any organization. one night it's the head guys fault, then the pit stewart, then the starters. If you are looking for problems I'm sure you will find them. When was the last time an officer pulled you over and told you thanks for driving politley and obeying the speed limit.


Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their
level and beat you with experience!!!! 

Wingless A Must
February 22, 2007 at 11:30:00 AM
Joined: 01/03/2007
Posts: 30
Reply

BITEME, LETS HEAR THE NEGATIVES THAT YOU ARE MENTIONING.



Doug Bushey
February 23, 2007 at 11:50:52 AM
Joined: 12/22/2004
Posts: 444
Reply

RichCee...

I respect your opinion.  At least you're not simply bashing and have given some thought and explanation to your response.

However, several West-Coast shoes have been given a chance at a National ride with help from exposure via USAC-sanctioned racing out here.  Some of the recent names that I can remember are: Ricky Shelton (Willoughby/Kunz), Billy Boat (Foyt), Clay Klepper (Hartman), Bud Kaeding (Leffler), Casey Shuman (Yeley, others), J.J. Yeley (Stewart, others), Cory Kruseman (Kunz, Stewart, others), Jay Drake (Kunz, Stewart, others), Josh Ford (Kunz), Darren Hagen (Kunz, Walker), Josh Wise (Kunz, Stewart), Jerry Coons Jr. (Hoffman, Wilke, others) and yes, Damion Gardner (Leffler).

Sure, one or more of the above teams were West-Coast teams that migrated East, but you get my point.  I'm not saying that these guys didn't get where they are from strictly exposure, it's obvious that they drove very well, worked really hard, and had the resources, desire, achievements, and skills behind them when they got their ticket to the "Big League". 

BTW...my earlier post was in response to the initial request to try to find "positive" things to say...lets stay focused here...


Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent 

Rick Eaton
February 23, 2007 at 01:17:33 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 77
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Doug Bushey on February 23 2007 at 11:50:52 AM

RichCee...

I respect your opinion.  At least you're not simply bashing and have given some thought and explanation to your response.

However, several West-Coast shoes have been given a chance at a National ride with help from exposure via USAC-sanctioned racing out here.  Some of the recent names that I can remember are: Ricky Shelton (Willoughby/Kunz), Billy Boat (Foyt), Clay Klepper (Hartman), Bud Kaeding (Leffler), Casey Shuman (Yeley, others), J.J. Yeley (Stewart, others), Cory Kruseman (Kunz, Stewart, others), Jay Drake (Kunz, Stewart, others), Josh Ford (Kunz), Darren Hagen (Kunz, Walker), Josh Wise (Kunz, Stewart), Jerry Coons Jr. (Hoffman, Wilke, others) and yes, Damion Gardner (Leffler).

Sure, one or more of the above teams were West-Coast teams that migrated East, but you get my point.  I'm not saying that these guys didn't get where they are from strictly exposure, it's obvious that they drove very well, worked really hard, and had the resources, desire, achievements, and skills behind them when they got their ticket to the "Big League". 

BTW...my earlier post was in response to the initial request to try to find "positive" things to say...lets stay focused here...



Doug,

Of the 13 drivers that you mention with "National" rides I believe that Shelton, Boat, Klepper, Kaeding, Shuman, Yeley, Drake, and Coons Jr. all landed their rides before USAC became involved here in SoCal.  I think that Kruseman probably earned his ride due to his outstanding showings diring Indiana Sprintweek.  Gardner may have benefitted.  I'm not sure about Ford and Wise.  Was Hagen ever a "West-Coast shoe"?

The 13 mentioned may only be 3.  Just trying to keep the record straight...

Rick Eaton



BIGFISH
MyWebsite
February 23, 2007 at 05:09:55 PM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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This message was edited on February 25, 2007 at 11:32:59 AM by BIGFISH

JJ yeley's break came when he threw everything in his car and headed to the Midwest. It was more like, if you don't go, you won't know. No a sure thing for a lot of those drivers mentioned.

Good job Rick....

And AZ...to keep the record straiter.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

JVan
February 23, 2007 at 06:02:02 PM
Joined: 11/08/2006
Posts: 206
Reply

I think Darren Hagen ran a few races out here before he left for the Midwest, but not very many. I think he's a midwest shoe who originally hailed from So. Cal.



RichCee
February 23, 2007 at 08:34:06 PM
Joined: 01/17/2007
Posts: 277
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I guess my point is that if you are racing on the west coast and looking to move up through 410 racing, the sanctioning body that sanctions the racing is irrelevant.  To gain recognition you must move to Indy and participate as a regular in one of USAC's National series.  CRA/WS Midgets/WS Sprints are not and likely will never be held in the same regard as the National series.  The CRA could have Stanbrough, Cottle, Darland, L Jones, Hines, etc all racing weekly in it and any win they score will not be held in the same regard as one in the National Series.  So when people say how running 410 sprint cars under a USAC sanction out west has been a springboard to landing National rides, I tend to start laughing.  Josh Wise turned a WS midget ride (Belleville win) into a National ride with TSR but I can't think of anyone else recently whose success on the West Coast translated directly from their West Coast racing into a full time National ride.  Maybe Shelton & Klepper but those guys weren't considered sprint car guys when they left and this is a sprint car forum, isn't it?  The rest of the guys you mentioned either weren't USAC regulars or they moved back to Indy and groveled for rides.  A couple of the ones you mentioned rented the cars they drove and that to me doesn't count.  How many years did after Coons moved to Indy did it take him to get decent rides?  The fact is they don't like it the west coast guys moving back there.  He drove a number of s-boxes to get the rides he has now.  They placed a bounty on JJ's head to be paid to the driver that took him out at Putnamville so he couldn't win the Sprintweek title.  And when he did win a title, they plopped the trophy on his toolbox and walked away without a word.  So, please spare me the image that success with USAC on the West Coast will bring a magic carpet ride to Indy.

Having said all that, the racing out here ain't bad and at times we have more talent that the Indy boys.  The Ventura and AZ 360 groups appear strong.  The 410's seem to be a bit up and down right now and I believe that learning to run well at Ventura and Manzanta puts you are ahead of the guy whose experience comes from Paragon or Putnamville.  A lot of the guys out there tend to turn into one trick ponys who only run one place well.  Heck, at 90% of the sprintweek tracks you run the same freaking rear end gear with stagger being the only difference.  Ventura teaches you timing and close quarters combat.  Manzy teaches momentum.  Take that experience back to Indy with you are you are ahead of the game but don't think for a minute that anything you did out here will be treated with any respect.

This is a pretty good place to learn how to race and to watch racing and I'd love to see one of our boys land a full time dirt and pavement USAC National ride directly out of CRA.

Rick - Hagen ran a few 360 shows out here and ran a lot of practice laps at Manzy when he first got in a sprint car with Jack Yeley prior to moving to Indy.



BIGFISH
MyWebsite
February 23, 2007 at 10:17:03 PM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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This message was edited on February 23, 2007 at 10:21:16 PM by BIGFISH

There have been a lot of CRA and SCRA drivers who could have ran with the "big boys" back in the Midwest and won. They had good rides offered, Leland just for starters.They simply chose to stay home and race,or maybe not so simple in some cases.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

BIGFISH
MyWebsite
February 24, 2007 at 09:24:52 AM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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This message was edited on February 24, 2007 at 09:29:54 AM by BIGFISH

Doug Bushey, you mention that USAC brought their history with them, maybe that's part of the problem. CRA's history is just as long, maybe longer and a big part of that history was the rivalry with USAC.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

RichCee
February 24, 2007 at 09:35:58 AM
Joined: 01/17/2007
Posts: 277
Reply

True, but the point of my long winded diatribe was that success racing under a USAC sanction at the local level historically has done little to nothing to provide a direct path to a ride with a National car owner. You had to move to the midwest and either bring your own ride to race there or money to obtain one of those rides. Mr. Bushey's statement was that "a locally sanctioned 410 traditional sprint car series on dirt out here had USAC not negotiated to bring both history and national exposure to the local series.........provided a more direct connection to the national teams and thus has helped some of our finest local talent land well-funded, competitive rides in the national series". That statement is largely untrue with less than a handful of exceptions. I don't dispute that west coast drivers have had success in the midwest, many have. I just don't think it's fair to suggest to the young drivers out here that they can win CRA races and expect to receive phone calls from Msrs Stewart, Kahne, Hoffman, Walker, Kunz, etc. They've had to move out there and essentially start from the bottom. What sanctioning body they came from has been largely irrelevant. The success they've achieved in the midwest has gotten them those rides.

 



BIGFISH
MyWebsite
February 24, 2007 at 09:55:19 AM
Joined: 01/02/2007
Posts: 5252
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RichCee, That's right, nothing has changed in that regard. I agree 100%, it's the same road to the USAC national series as before and USAC using CRA's name has changed none of that.


Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

cshu
MyWebsite
February 24, 2007 at 11:19:47 AM
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 27
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I guess since my name was included on this list, I could share my feelings about this. It may sound stupid, but I feel like the main reason I have been given some opportunities is from getting my ass to Indy, working hard at it, and racing with the best in the business three nights a week. The past couple years I have been giving some great opportunities, although we struggled with a new car, driving the famous Hazen #57 was very cool. Eric Barnhill, AJ Felker, Jim Massey, and now the Yeley/Dooling team have all given me good opportunities and I thank them for that. With that being said, I dont really think USAC, or the fact that I competed in a USAC event had anything to do with these guys giving me a shot..



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