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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: Larson
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highspeeddirt
November 07, 2021 at 06:00:36 PM
Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 399
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Well done. The last 2 years have been incredible to watch.



saphead
November 07, 2021 at 07:16:35 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1163
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I really thought hwe was going to announce his retirement from Nascar and his bid to race for the WoO championship in 2022. 



BStrawser26
November 07, 2021 at 07:50:00 PM
Joined: 09/12/2013
Posts: 2593
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Reply to:
Posted By: highspeeddirt on November 07 2021 at 06:00:36 PM

Well done. The last 2 years have been incredible to watch.



YAHOO!!!!  He is simply the BEST!!


Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

[email protected]
November 07, 2021 at 08:19:06 PM
Joined: 04/09/2016
Posts: 122
Reply

Well done kid!!


  From central coast of Cali.
   Peace, Out.

egras
November 07, 2021 at 08:24:24 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
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Agree, it has been an incredible 2 years.  The fact that the most dominant driver/team in the sport in 2021 (without even a close 2nd) had to rely on the 2nd best pit stop of the year to win the championship by less than .5 seconds, is a testament to how ridiculous Nascar's naming of a champion has been the last few years.  A .1 longer pit stop and Larson likely doesn't win the title.  Drama?  Sure.  But I could watch Grey's Anatomy with my wife, or WWE if I wanted drama.  This is not going to be fixed either as the ratings and ticket sales are up.  The old points system was lame most years, I agree.  The system used when Smoke won his last title was a lot more fair to the drivers than this format.  Having the last pit stop, of the final race, and a 25 lap sprint to the checkered flag is great drama for an individual race.  It's a pile of garbage for determining a season long champion.  The racing as a whole has been pretty good----especially with Kyle in the field.  I just wish they wouldn't have cheapened it.  

 

Congrats to Kyle-----he deserved it!  I'm glad his team could do him a solid on that last stop!



alum.427
November 08, 2021 at 05:29:33 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1599
Reply

Have to agree with egras on this one. You are the best team all season long and it comes down to a race where if you don't finish in front of the other 3 cars well to bad for  you.  People were there to see Kyle Larson, period. The point system nascrap has is terrible. Congrats champion you deserved it,  I think you probably put a smile on One Anthony Joseph Foyt's face when you took the checkered flag.  Well Done.



bgtexpress
November 08, 2021 at 05:58:18 AM
Joined: 10/19/2016
Posts: 837
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This message was edited on November 08, 2021 at 05:59:42 AM by bgtexpress

I could be wrong.....but I think every sprint car, DLM and Midget fan in the entire country woke up nervous yesterday morning and was pulling for #5.....Congratulations YUNG MONEYYou made us proud!!!!!



motorhead748
November 08, 2021 at 06:12:46 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 590
Reply

Congratulations to Kyle on the win...  I tried to watch and couldn't 



hiroshimacarp
November 08, 2021 at 07:11:52 AM
Joined: 10/06/2018
Posts: 310
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on November 07 2021 at 08:24:24 PM

Agree, it has been an incredible 2 years.  The fact that the most dominant driver/team in the sport in 2021 (without even a close 2nd) had to rely on the 2nd best pit stop of the year to win the championship by less than .5 seconds, is a testament to how ridiculous Nascar's naming of a champion has been the last few years.  A .1 longer pit stop and Larson likely doesn't win the title.  Drama?  Sure.  But I could watch Grey's Anatomy with my wife, or WWE if I wanted drama.  This is not going to be fixed either as the ratings and ticket sales are up.  The old points system was lame most years, I agree.  The system used when Smoke won his last title was a lot more fair to the drivers than this format.  Having the last pit stop, of the final race, and a 25 lap sprint to the checkered flag is great drama for an individual race.  It's a pile of garbage for determining a season long champion.  The racing as a whole has been pretty good----especially with Kyle in the field.  I just wish they wouldn't have cheapened it.  

 

Congrats to Kyle-----he deserved it!  I'm glad his team could do him a solid on that last stop!



i go back and forth on this.  on one hand...completely agree it risks a dominant car losing a title they deserve which almost happened yesterday.  on the other...it seems like the best team typically finds a way to win anyway while still putting on a good show that fans want to see.  i'm having trouble remembering a year where somebody won the title and completely didn't deserve it.  it seems to work out somehow.  hamlin would have been deserving had he won (as much as i don't like him).

if i remember right...stewart was a non-factor for most of the year in 2011 before he caught fire in the chase.  nobody would argue he didn't deserve it based on how he ran late in the season...but there might have been somebody more consistent throughout the year.

i'm not sure i have a good answer for how it should be.  jimmie johnson won a lot of titles while they were figuring this whole thing out.  another example of the best finding a way under any circumstances like larson did yesterday.  he didn't run away with the race, they adjusted throughout the day to get better, and it ended up being a team win with the last pit stop.

another question i've been trying to answer...is this the greatest season ever in american racing?  i'm 37 and it's the greatest i've seen.  he reached the pinnacle of sprint car racing and nascar racing.  either one by itself is an accomplishment and nobody that in my lifetime has come close to both. 

winning the nascar title is the pinnacle of the discipline for me because any tom, dick, or harry can win a daytona 500 these days.  nascar needs to figure out how to making winning that race hard again.  the prestige of that accomplishment is just about gone.



beezr2002
November 08, 2021 at 07:14:07 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
Reply

I'm a sprint car fan and I didn't wake up nervous yesterday morning, hell I didn't even know it was the nascar finale. Its cool he won but I want to know if his wife shot gunned a beer in VL?



rolldog
MyWebsite
November 08, 2021 at 08:09:29 AM
Joined: 08/01/2013
Posts: 431
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Reply to:
Posted By: beezr2002 on November 08 2021 at 07:14:07 AM

I'm a sprint car fan and I didn't wake up nervous yesterday morning, hell I didn't even know it was the nascar finale. Its cool he won but I want to know if his wife shot gunned a beer in VL?



Katelyn shotguns a beer for NASCAR victories and they usually show her doing it in the background.  I'll bet there was more than one beer shotgunned.....

The real question - when Kyle gets that big check at the banquet, will she shotgun a beer then?!?!  I'll watch for the first time in 10 years just to see if she does.



highspeeddirt
November 08, 2021 at 08:24:14 AM
Joined: 01/06/2009
Posts: 399
Reply

This was the only nascar race I watched all year and only to see larson win the championship. If he isn't in the running no way I watch. I couldn't even watch all of it yesterday and skipped the middle stage.



dsc1600
November 08, 2021 at 08:33:01 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on November 07 2021 at 08:24:24 PM

Agree, it has been an incredible 2 years.  The fact that the most dominant driver/team in the sport in 2021 (without even a close 2nd) had to rely on the 2nd best pit stop of the year to win the championship by less than .5 seconds, is a testament to how ridiculous Nascar's naming of a champion has been the last few years.  A .1 longer pit stop and Larson likely doesn't win the title.  Drama?  Sure.  But I could watch Grey's Anatomy with my wife, or WWE if I wanted drama.  This is not going to be fixed either as the ratings and ticket sales are up.  The old points system was lame most years, I agree.  The system used when Smoke won his last title was a lot more fair to the drivers than this format.  Having the last pit stop, of the final race, and a 25 lap sprint to the checkered flag is great drama for an individual race.  It's a pile of garbage for determining a season long champion.  The racing as a whole has been pretty good----especially with Kyle in the field.  I just wish they wouldn't have cheapened it.  

 

Congrats to Kyle-----he deserved it!  I'm glad his team could do him a solid on that last stop!



I thought the same thing. A ridiculous format for crowning a champion. So many differences to stick and ball sports that it get comical.

1) In (pick a sport), you're only battling 1 opponent, in racing and specifically NASCAR, you're battling 40 other teams.

2) In most other sports, the field of play is the same regardless. Football fields, basketball courts etc... all have the same dimensions. Nascar's "championship" is raced on a completely different field of play than most of it's other events. So if you have an advantage at Phoenix, you're already at an advantage over your competitors. 

3) There are so many variables, you have a mishap in the pits, someone crashes in front of you, your car is better on short runs and there's a late caution, that can throw a dominant run out the window. 

Good for NASCAR that the right guy won, but what an absurd gimmick to crown a champion. And judging by ratings and attendance for the Chase races, it's failed miserably.  



Murphy
November 08, 2021 at 09:31:52 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply

Maybe NASCAR could just crown a champion based on a popularity vote, and save a bunch of nonsense. =) Have mash-up NASCAR/ American Idol. ;)



egras
November 08, 2021 at 09:50:44 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: hiroshimacarp on November 08 2021 at 07:11:52 AM

i go back and forth on this.  on one hand...completely agree it risks a dominant car losing a title they deserve which almost happened yesterday.  on the other...it seems like the best team typically finds a way to win anyway while still putting on a good show that fans want to see.  i'm having trouble remembering a year where somebody won the title and completely didn't deserve it.  it seems to work out somehow.  hamlin would have been deserving had he won (as much as i don't like him).

if i remember right...stewart was a non-factor for most of the year in 2011 before he caught fire in the chase.  nobody would argue he didn't deserve it based on how he ran late in the season...but there might have been somebody more consistent throughout the year.

i'm not sure i have a good answer for how it should be.  jimmie johnson won a lot of titles while they were figuring this whole thing out.  another example of the best finding a way under any circumstances like larson did yesterday.  he didn't run away with the race, they adjusted throughout the day to get better, and it ended up being a team win with the last pit stop.

another question i've been trying to answer...is this the greatest season ever in american racing?  i'm 37 and it's the greatest i've seen.  he reached the pinnacle of sprint car racing and nascar racing.  either one by itself is an accomplishment and nobody that in my lifetime has come close to both. 

winning the nascar title is the pinnacle of the discipline for me because any tom, dick, or harry can win a daytona 500 these days.  nascar needs to figure out how to making winning that race hard again.  the prestige of that accomplishment is just about gone.



Great points.  Respect your view.  The answer to your question in my view:

Years I can remember someone winning the championship and didn't deserve it:  (and this is going to be my opinion and spans many different formats, all of which have had major flaws as winning is not enough of the determining factor in any of them)

1973--Benny Parsons.  1 win.  The Silver Fox?  11.  Sure he didn't run all of the races, but neither did Kyle Busch 2015--and he was the champion.  

2015--Kyle Busch.  If you can't give it to Pearson in 1973, you sure as hell can't give it to Kyle in 2015.  Pick one side or the other. 

2003- Matt Kenseth.  Wins the 3rd race of the year---that's it.  Ryan Newman meanwhile, wins 8 times and finishes        6th in the points.  Who did you show up to beat each week?  Matt Kenseth and his barrage of 7th place finishes, or Ryan Newman?  Ryan Newman would be the correct answer.  Not enough emphasis on winning.  I get sick of the consistency arguement.  That should only come into play if two drivers have had equal (or close to equal) success in victory lane.

1996--Terry Labonte.  See comments on Matt Kenseth.  Jeff Gordon won 10 races to Terry's 2.  Top-5's and top-10's were virtually identical if I remember correctly.  Jeff with 1 more DNF.  Bunch of crap

2020--Chase Elliott.  2 drivers deserved the title over Chase.  Harvick 9 wins, and Denny 7 wins.  

2018--Joey Logano.  3 wins.  Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick?  8 each.  No luck on final race of the year?  Too bad, you aren't the guy to beat in 2018 if you can't run well in Miami I guess.  

Finally---Most of Jimmie Johnson's championships.  With the previous format, I believe Jeff Gordon wins 6 or 7 championships and Jimmie wins 3 or 4.  Not like 3 or 4 isn't great, but it's not 7.   A lot of great seasons were forgotten because of Nascar's new formats.  

 

Point being----all of Nascar's points systems have SUCKED!   It went from being "fair" with no emphasis on winning to being a circus--with very little in between time.  Formula 1 system is the absolute best system in the world for determining who the driver/team was you had to beat all year. (ironically, the worst racing, but the best points system) No points past 10th place.  HUGE difference between points for 1st and 4th.  Drivers are rewarded for doing what every driver is there to do---win the race.  I get sick of hearing how Terry Labonte's team won in 1996 by being consistent.  Consistently what?  Being interviewed on pit road with Jeff Gordon in the background in victory lane?  Ridiculous 



sw1911
November 08, 2021 at 10:03:29 AM
Joined: 02/14/2010
Posts: 170
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Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on November 08 2021 at 05:29:33 AM

Have to agree with egras on this one. You are the best team all season long and it comes down to a race where if you don't finish in front of the other 3 cars well to bad for  you.  People were there to see Kyle Larson, period. The point system nascrap has is terrible. Congrats champion you deserved it,  I think you probably put a smile on One Anthony Joseph Foyt's face when you took the checkered flag.  Well Done.



How many drivers could win the championship in the last race under the old points system? How many times was the championship determined before the last race?


Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

JonR
November 08, 2021 at 10:03:43 AM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 872
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Reply to:
Posted By: beezr2002 on November 08 2021 at 07:14:07 AM

I'm a sprint car fan and I didn't wake up nervous yesterday morning, hell I didn't even know it was the nascar finale. Its cool he won but I want to know if his wife shot gunned a beer in VL?



Yes, she did.  Saw several pictures on twitter of her shot gunning a beer. 



egras
November 08, 2021 at 10:21:12 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: sw1911 on November 08 2021 at 10:03:29 AM

How many drivers could win the championship in the last race under the old points system? How many times was the championship determined before the last race?



Not sure of the exact number.  However, a lot of years it was nothing more than a technicality if the champion wasn't determined before the final race.  For example, many times it was simply the point's leader needed to take the green flag, or finish 33rd or better if the 2nd place guy won.  There was some drama in the old system, like in 1992.  (they still got it wrong because Bill Elliott and Davey Allison were the cars to beat that year---not Kulwicki)  Most years, no drama.  Who cares?  This isn't a Soap Opera---it's supposed to be a competition.  

So, I don't know the numbers on your question, but many times in the old system, the winner was determined 2 or 3 weeks prior to the end of the season.  I still like F1's points.  Kyle would have been crowned the champ back early to mid-October and all of that revenue would have been lost.  

If Nascar wants the best of both worlds---drama and a correct crowning of a champion----2011's format was probably as close as they could get to it.  A final 10 races amongst the top 12 drivers with a "reset."  Although, they almost !@#$ed that up too as Edwards was one position away from winning it all with only 1 win.  I thought they fixed it a couple of years later when they added playoff points for wins.  Then, they screwed that all up by cutting drivers in each stage and letting 4 guys battle it out in one race.  They can't get out of their own way.  They are lucky Kyle won or this would put a huge dent in their revenue next year IMO.  

 



sw1911
November 08, 2021 at 10:23:25 AM
Joined: 02/14/2010
Posts: 170
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on November 08 2021 at 08:33:01 AM

I thought the same thing. A ridiculous format for crowning a champion. So many differences to stick and ball sports that it get comical.

1) In (pick a sport), you're only battling 1 opponent, in racing and specifically NASCAR, you're battling 40 other teams.

2) In most other sports, the field of play is the same regardless. Football fields, basketball courts etc... all have the same dimensions. Nascar's "championship" is raced on a completely different field of play than most of it's other events. So if you have an advantage at Phoenix, you're already at an advantage over your competitors. 

3) There are so many variables, you have a mishap in the pits, someone crashes in front of you, your car is better on short runs and there's a late caution, that can throw a dominant run out the window. 

Good for NASCAR that the right guy won, but what an absurd gimmick to crown a champion. And judging by ratings and attendance for the Chase races, it's failed miserably.  



The more I read this, the more it sounded like Daytona. Where a Bayne or McDowell has a chance to win. 


Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

egras
November 08, 2021 at 10:25:39 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
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Reply to:
Posted By: sw1911 on November 08 2021 at 10:23:25 AM

The more I read this, the more it sounded like Daytona. Where a Bayne or McDowell has a chance to win. 



Yup.  Spot on



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