Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

1.  Most sprint car fans think the purses should be raised.

2.  Most sprint car fans would NOT pay a higher gate if it meant an increased purse---at least not without complaining about it.

3.  Most sprint car fans think all promoters, track owners, and the Knoxville Fair Board are greedy, money grubbing business people who should be running these tracks as a community service

4.  Most sprint car fans (directly relating to point #3) would not sacrifice a dime of their own income for the betterment of their employer or their co-workers.  We're all greedy.  Quit acting like the only Americans not allowed to "get what they can get" are promoters and track owners.  We're hypocrites.

5.  Most sprint car fans think safety is a key issue RIGHT NOW!

6.  As eluded to in point 2, most sprint car fans would NOT pay a higher gate if it meant paying for these safety improvements--at least not without complaining about it.    

7.  Most sprint car fans don't like support classes------------------but then in the same breath-------------

8.  Most sprint car fans can't figure out why the 410 numbers are dwindling and there are no new drivers coming up through the ranks of............................the support classes.  

9.  Most sprint car fans are oblivious to the fact that we are in the midst of a great decade of 410 sprint car racing.  We will be looking back at this era 20 years from now and the memories of the racing and historical moments will shine just as brightly as they did in past decades.  

10.  Most sprint car fans don't like change.  So, how do any of these issues ever get fixed so that everyone can be happy?

Dont think purses should be raised if drivers will not support the tracks. I would pay a few extra dollars. But purses at BAPS were good and 15 cars. Not just the purse. Drivers dont want to race but once a week at their fav track. Sponsorship hard to come by.

Safety always a concern. NOT just now as a person who has friends and family racing. 

Cars are too expensive. That is why not more 410s. Engine builders etc need to really examine cost. So the answer is to build lower cars like 305s which at some our tracks are not worth the price of entry. Its like healthcare. Grredy and overpriced. 

Support classes are ok if appropriate for the size of track, shows run effieciently. Time trials take alot of time and really add no value much like dash races. Waste of time mostly and can ruin a drivers night. Especially a dash. 

1. I think purses should be lowered. It might shame the owners into spening less money. 

2. I want the purses lowered so this isn't applicable to me. 

3. I hope they make as much money as possible, they take on a huge risk. 

4. Don't care who makes what. None of my business.

5. As many laps are turned with as many cars and as many tracks that run, I'm shocked more tragedies don't occur. 

6. I'd say we are safer now than we've ever been. 

7. Just keep the support classes to a minimum at the special shows. 

8. I don't know of many sprint car drivers that came up through e-mods & bombers. 

9. I'm aware of how good things are right now and the young talent coming from California is great. 

10. Change, no change, I don't really care. 

You're over thinking the whole thing.  Go to the races, have fun and when it's not fun anymore find something else to do.  That has worked for me since 1960 and I have had varrying degrees of involvement during that time.  Everything from going every week as a kid, followed a family owned race car in the 60's, lost touch when I went in the Navy in 1969, not many races while raising kids through the 80's into the 90's.  As the nest emptied out I found a way to get involved as a writer and photographer for about 15 years.  As I got into my 60's and slowed down I stepped back after a high of about 45 races per season to my present 2-4 per year. 

I don't care about purses, pay the gate when I can afford it and stay home and PPV when I can't.  I know promoters personally from my writing days and am well aware of the challenges they're facing so no gripe with promoters.  Anyone running a business can run it as they see fit, I don't think of them as greedy.  I'll sacrifice a dime if I can afford it and won't if I can't, my retirement income isn't driven by race tracks.  It would be nice though if more tracks could offer a seniors discount but no such thing at the pit gate and I don't do the stands.  Support classes and back gate promoting are necessary in my neck of the woods so I tolerate support classes as part of the bottom line.  I'm not a 410 snob and have come to prefer the limited motor non-wing Sprints that is a growing class in the upper Midwest.  Name reckognition and touring the country or region does not guarantee entertaining racing.  As far as this being a great decade, every decade is great for somebody.  We all have our favorites.  Not liking change?  That's another little box that you're stuffing us all into. 

So I take it that you're the shining example in all of these points? 

Stan Meissner

Nope----I'm not the shining example.  And you always seem to be a level headed fan who understands all of the points I am trying to make.  

I do just go to the track, enjoy the races, and let everyone else stress about the things that require stressing over.  I RARELY leave the track with any negative thoughts.  I've just collected a sample of what has been debated on this forum over the last 12 months or so.   Seems a lot of complaining over lack of purses and lack of renovation of a lot of tracks yet an equal amount of bitching about ticket costs. I find ticket prices to be about the best value in the sporting world myself and would gladly pay more to help all areas of the sport---including those bastard promoters and track owners.   (sarcasm----I understand what it takes to run a business)   I attend other sports like NHL hockey, NFL football and MLB baseball as well as minor league sports and college sports.  Attending an NHL game with my family and an overnight trip?  I have to save up to $1200 to pull this off.    Sprint car fans have the best value in all of the sports world in my opinion.  

I know I was a little over the top in saying "most sprint car fans" as I don't have scientific data to support this.  How about "most sprint car fans that actively voice their opinions on this board"   Nothing wrong with voicing your opinions.   Nothing wrong with me voicing my opinion about their opinions.  

Ironically, you say "you're over thinking the whole thing".  I was kinda trying to send that message to everyone else.  Just go to the races and enjoy.  ;)

I would gladly spend an extra $10 for a ticket to a regular Saturday night race at Knoxville if at least $9 of it went into the purse. And I go there every week and still would if tickets were $10 higher.

I would gladly pay too. 

I went to a high school football game last night in a neighboring town.  There were a bunch of people sitting in their cars watching the game through the fence from outside.  I told one of the locals how nice it was they had parking for handicapped people to make it easier for them to see the game without having to get out of their cars.  He laughed.   He said all of those people aren't handicapped------their cheap.  They wouldn't spend $4 to get into a high school football game but would get there 60 minutes early and sit in their cars so they had a front row seat for free.  On top of that, he said they are the ones always complaining at the local bar and coffee house about how the field and park were a shit hole.    

Myself, I don't mind having support classes & also feel Sprintcar racing is one of the best values today. If they raised prices I wouldn't mind & feel I to sometimes that I am the only one who supports most of the promoters. I see all the time people considering WoO & certain tracks the evil empire and just don't understand it sometimes.

I have a buddy who now won't go if a track runs modifieds & won't go to a race that doesn't pay at least 10k to win. He said that the tracks are making all the money and not giving it to the racers. I told him, if you don't go then the racers still won't get paid. You are working against your goal.

I try to go to as many races as possible, take my son, and take friends for the first time. Some of those friends return, others just don't have a taste for it. I have learned that if I don't have any money really invested then it's not my place to tell someone how to do something. I usually leave with a positive feeling after a race. I go to enjoy, watch competition, and have a good time. If I hit the lottery someday maybe I'll buy a track and do it my way. Or in certain cases, the message boards can tell me how to do it

Back when everything was built the way you wanted it then raced it the local bar, restaurant, gas station & the like would sponsor the local racer. Now everything is store bought. Now you need that Corporate money.

Then somewhere along the way somebody got the bright Idea to start a different type of class & within the last 40 years 10 classes spell less sponsorship for the 5 main classes we had back in the day.

Is it me or do most sprint fans have some ADD or other attention issue? I like hockey, it is fast paced and one time out. Hard for me to watch a full football or baseball game. Spring racing gets after it and we go home. All out and head out!

Down time kills me, the Knoxville Nationals Saturday night show drags on forever. Run it and let us go down to the pits, party, or go back to hotel. Was trying to watch the Williams Grove National Open on Dirtvision but bailed when the fireworks started and it was 9:45 and the Cmain was just run...wtf takes so long, run the damn show for crying out loud. My time is more valuable than anything else at this point in life but that’s just me.

Lowering purses won't stop the money spending, will only hurt the small teams.  The guys that dictate the cost don't care about the money, they raised the price to what it is, the purse is beer money to them.  The big teams spend more on washing and polishing the semi than the entire budget for smaller teams.  Cutting the purse won't affect them in the least, but the guys who aren't in the hunt week in and week out, the purse matters, we are running tires multiple nights, we cringe at entry fees because we can't buy as many pit passes as we would like, and when our wings go crunchy crunch we think, "there is one less race I can run", and we already can't run enough.

Also, I don't think there are many racers who say "I only want to run one night at my favorite track".  Must of us would run 3 times a week if it were feasible, but when it costs $1,000 a night to run, unless you are the "Dream Team" you aren't making money every time you unload the car.  We want to be there, but budgets aren't unlimited.  On the other hand, if you raise the purse $100 for every spot, that means we can now run 11 races where before we could race 10, or 22 instead of 20.  That money is not going into our retirement accounts.

Don't think I have ADD or anything but I sure don't have any desire to sit through unnecessary intermissions or 2-3 hrs of support classes spinning each other out and changing flat tires.    For sure not when the race/event is a sprint car "special" race.   If support classes are really necessary for such events then they need real time limits (none of this 45 min to run a 12 lap feature crap) or count laps under caution.

I like the way Knoxville runs their weekly shows.    They start on time and get after it.   Other tracks should follow their lead.

I know I'm getting older and crankier.   I have little desire to be at a race track much past 10 pm.   I have a hard time attending races at tracks that have a long history of getting done closer to midnight than 10.

11) Most sprint car fans have been fans for a long time.

12) Most sprint car fans have a hard time believing promoters who over-hype and over-promise.How many times have you gone to a race where some name brand drivers that you heard the track promoting aren't there?

13) Most sprint car fans like buying driver's shirts and would buy more if they didn't all look exactly the same- over the top graphics that look like charicatures of the rea; thing on a cheap, thin, black shirt.

14) Most sprint car fans want the track to get the show on the road. I'm too damn cranky to sit through a 30 minute grader parade and all the dinking around. If you want to sell more hotdogs, lower the price.

15)Most sprint car fans are not enamored by time trials. Heck- I'd rather they just drew straws for heat line-up positions

16) Most sprint car fans cringe when some joker uses the term "real sprint car fans". Does the 750 sprint car races I've gone to in my life not mean anything if my opinion differs from yours?

17) Most sprint car fans can see that the sport is shrinking because of a total lack of cost and rule containment, but feel powerless to do anything about it.

18) Most sprint car fans are very loyal to sprint cars but tolerate classes with fenders- to a point. I could do without ever seeing another B-Mod spin fest.

19)Most sprint car fans, on the average, are older than the average stick and ball fan

20) Most sprint car fans cannot be compartmentalied into generalized categories. We do, however, have a passion for a sport that can get your adrenaline up like no other

What would be wrong with a racetrack cooperating with a number of mobile food trucks? Paying gourmet food prices might be acceptable if you were getting something out of the ordinary to eat, and it was hot!

to be fair, I think most of these points could be applied to fans of any sport.  But I'll give you my opinion on your points.

1. I could care less what the drivers make in purse.  It doesn't affect me at all.  Are you telling me the 2012 Knoxville Nationals was a better race than the 1990 Knoxville Nationals?  

2. I wouldn't say this, problem for me is, lets say they raise the gate price by $5, not a big deal, but for me, that's $20, since I have a family of 4.

3. Not at all, there are far more tracks closing than opening, so obviously being a race promotor is not a money maker.  If it's as easy as everyone thinks to make money promoting a race, take your chance at one of the thousands abandoned tracks around the country.

4. I'm not seeing how this relates to sprint car racing.  If I'm following your point correctly, you're saying that people should be ok with taking a pay cut so their employer can have a bigger mansion?  I'm not completely following this point, so I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

5. Safety is and has been a key issue since the beginning of auto racing not just right now.

6. See #2.

7. No, most people don't like support classes.  When you hear ads for a race do you hear, "Come see if Joe McBlow can win his third feature this year in the sportsmanan class?  Do you like paying to see a big name concert only to see cover bands for a longer time than you see the big name band?  

8. I think the majority of fans understand perfectly well why the 410 numbers are dwindling, and it has nothing to do with lack of support classes.  Cost is the reason sprint car racing is decling, not support classes.

9. There's plenty of reason to think that.  However how is this decade any different than any other decade?  80s you had one guy dominating (Steve Kinser) with a few real close challengers (Swindell, Wolfgang) and a lot of up and comers (too many to name).  90s you had one guy dominating (Steve Kinser) with a few real close challengers (Swindell, Blaney, another Kinser) and a lot of up and comers (Again too many to name).  2000s you had one guy dominating (Steve Kinser, later Donny Schatz) with a few real close challengers (Lasoski, Meyers, Saldana) and a lot of up and comers (again, a lot of them.  In the 2010 decade we have Donny Schatz dominating with a few close challengers and a lot of up and comers.  Sorry this decade is no different than any other, just the names.

10. Again I don't see how this is exclusive to sprint car fans.  MOST people don't like change, no matter how much they complain about the current state.  As with anything else no change will make everybody happy.

All valid points hardon

2 and 6.  I would gladly pay an additional $20 for my family to go to the races if that meant a better purse and safety improvements we can all see----but that is only my opinion.  

4.  Was trying to point out no one wants a pay cut.  Why would tracks and promoters take pay cuts to pass on the savings as everyone seems to want when there's no way the average fan would ever do the same?

9.  That was my point.  Its a resounding theme that this era of sprint car racing is weak and watered down.  My point is if you got into sprint car racing back then, you should still be enjoying it because only the names have changed. 

10.  There are some changes in sports that are ridiculous.  NFL's new sack rule for example.  However, when leagues across America make some of the other changes I see, they are trying to attract the new A.D.D. crowd someone else in this thread eluded to.  NHL looking for ways to increase scoring.  NFL looking for ways to protect the QB and let receivers run free.  A couple of examples.  

It's hard to figure out the intent without being able to see the twinkle in your eye when you're throwing this stuff out there.  When I think of level headed I think of the old joke about being able to identify a level headed Norwegian by the snoose running out of bother corners of his mouth at the same time.  It's the closest I have come to a compliment for a long time so I'll take it.  ;)

I'm with you on all these points and more.  We're a crazy disfunctional motley bunch of misfits but we all share one thing in common.  We like to bitch about Sprint Car racing, some more than others.

Stan Meissner

Such is the DNA makeup of us typical Sprint Car Zombies. We can't help ourselves. :0

I Gotcha Stan.  I love your last sentence.  True.  But I can break that group into two sub-groups:

Group 1:  Enjoys the product on the track.  Likes to point out some small changes that could be made to make the show and the overall experience even better.  If these small changes don't take place, will still continue to attend the races because this group loves sprint car racing. 

Group 2:  Cannot go out for a meal without complaining about the service or the food.  Never happy.  Need 4 wide racing for the entire feature, week in, week out.  Winner must come from deeper than row 5.  Must have 35 cars at each show.  Tracks should be able to figure out how to avoid mother nature.  Hot dogs should be $1 and beer should be $1.50---because it's still 1975.  Promoters are here to entertain me for free

I'm group 1 

     Awe geeze! You're being a little tough on group #2. Next you're going to say they want all their music to come to them free online. Where will that lead? $1.50 beer would be Milwaukee's Best and that's just too nastly to even contemplate.

I'm in group 1. And get off my lawn!

With our ready everyone's response here goes:

1 and 2, I agree with. Those of us on this board are probably more passionate about sprint car racing than the typical fan who may show up a couple of times a year. 

Most nights at Knoxville your kid can get in for free so I'm not sure how $20 would go over. 

3. I disagree here but do think there are those who believe that, and do not understand the big picture of the costs of what it takes to run a show, pay everyone, bills etc. 

4. Agree.

5. & 6. I agree, but I think drivers need to start considering things like what a track PROACTIVELY does to ensure the safety of the drivers and fans, and then support more of those tracks. I'm really curious of drivers actually will NOT attend a race b/c of the lack of safety equipment available. I'm guessing it doesn't happen often but someone may correct me. 
I'll give you Knoxville for example.... top notch safety crew, safe fencing, implements safety regulations... granted many tracks can't afford to have the best of the best but obviously can make improvements to their existing facilities fairly cheap...old tires in specific locations.

7. I'm not sure on this one. There have been support classes forever so I don't think all of the sudden we got tired of them. I do think that our attention span is shorter so we want to see potentially lesser quality of racing being ran in a timely fashion. 

8. As racing gets more expensive this will always push out the smaller budget teams first. I don't think the reason why we have less 410's is b/c people don't like support classes.

9. Despite the "dwindling" # of racers I think this is maybe a reason why the quality of the racing is better for the major sanctioning bodies, WOO, ALLSTARS, whomever. Less racers so the good racers who can market themselves, so less "watered down" product. Fans will say when a league does an expansion the quality of the teams are lessened, so possibly the opposite is going on. Either way when the WOO comes to town, it looks packed at most places, so there is an interest in special races on dirt.

10. I agree most don't like change, so you do minor changes through out the years... slight bump in ticket prices, minor rule changes here and there. Most changes in anything aren't major, and if they are we don't notice it until we can evaluate what's happened. 
 

Keep It Real