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Topic: Badlands press release regarding the auction...Laugh it up. Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Murphy
September 18, 2018 at 07:48:14 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on September 18 2018 at 05:37:01 PM

If anybod feels bad for him you can pay the second half property taxes:

 

Property details for: 2012 S SPLITROCK

Property Information:

Street Address:2012 S SPLITROCK BLVD
Legal Description:SPLIT ROCK TOWNSHIP 101-48 TR 1 & 2 NW1/4 ( EX LOT 1 TR 1) 10 101 48
Parcel Number:010324
School District Code:492
Date Structure was Built:1970
Billing Number:772
Total Property Size:0.00
Township:SPLIT ROCK TWP
 


Valuations: Assessment Year 2017

Assessed Value:$2,930,704.00
Equalized Value:$2,707,970.00
Agricultural Land Value:$0.00
Non-Agricultural Land Value:$359,090.00
Agricultural Building Value:$0.00
Non-Agricultural Building Value:$2,661,637.00
 


Payments: Taxes Payable 2018

2017 Taxes Payable in 2018:$48,369.77

Tax Bill First Half due April 30:$24,184.89 (Paid)

Tax Bill Second Half due October 31:$24,184.88



     Apparantly the county doesn't think it's worth $3,150,000 either. Maybe chuck should call them and tell them to raise the valuation to $3,150,000 or $6 million, or $9 million, or $19 million. wink



kooks
September 18, 2018 at 08:42:05 PM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 702
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Posted By: racefanigan on September 18 2018 at 11:01:09 AM

Exactly, this is the sad fact, the fact that we have a place that nobody is ever going to buy now because nobody can afford to buy the place plain and simple. I grew up going to the races at Husets, believe me when I say I want our track back again. But also believe me when I say that it was not solely Chuck that killed it. I personally know quite a few that never went back to Husets because "I do not like Chuck". That contributes just as much as anything anyone else did. I don't like the way Sanford made his money either, but I still go to Hockey games in a building with his name all over it.

Thing is the place did not close because the racing couldnt draw a crowd, best racing I saw in 10 years at husets was after chuck bought the place, and mostly in the 360 class too. Chuck simply wanted to prove a point that he doesn't care so he packed his bags and left.



So which is it?     

The fans didn't go?    Or "the place did not close because the racing couldn't draw a crowd"?

 

It is Chuck's fault the place is closed. Period.   Blaming anyone else is revisionist history.    Nobody wanted to see him fail or the track close.    Some of us just weren't wearing the rose colored glasses that were blinding the Chuck Suckers to reality.   Reality was and is that Chuck never cared about racing or the track.  To Chuck it was all about the party.  

 

 

It is also Chuck's fault that no one is willing/can afford to buy the place for half of what he "supposedly" invested into it.

This was a concern from the beginning also for those of us that could see that this likely wasn't going to work out long term.

When you see something that is "too good to be true", it almost always is.   Chuck was never good and never true.



JonR
September 18, 2018 at 09:17:43 PM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 872
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Everyone is correct in being completely confused about how Chuck decides to set a sales price for his track.  If no one would buy it at 3 million who is going to step up at 6 million?   The economics of the deal are 100% upside down.    As was said by someone else on an ealier post:  Only a very wealthy person would be able to purchase the track without ever expecting to see a positive ROI, and the weatlhy person did not become wealthy by investing in items with a negative ROI. 

However,  we need to remember that he did not close the track because of the performance of the track.   In fact, the track was poised to have it's biggest season yet.   Badlands, Knoxville, and Jackson all agreed to work together and not promote against each others crown jewels in the upcoming year.   The USAC race was building off of a good first year and they decided to add USAC midgets to the weekend which was definitely going to make it a marquee event.   Things were actually starting to look up for the racing.   It was the November election and Chucks reaction to it that shut down the speedway.

 




kooks
September 18, 2018 at 09:49:48 PM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 702
Reply
This message was edited on September 18, 2018 at 10:01:28 PM by kooks
Reply to:
Posted By: JonR on September 18 2018 at 09:17:43 PM

Everyone is correct in being completely confused about how Chuck decides to set a sales price for his track.  If no one would buy it at 3 million who is going to step up at 6 million?   The economics of the deal are 100% upside down.    As was said by someone else on an ealier post:  Only a very wealthy person would be able to purchase the track without ever expecting to see a positive ROI, and the weatlhy person did not become wealthy by investing in items with a negative ROI. 

However,  we need to remember that he did not close the track because of the performance of the track.   In fact, the track was poised to have it's biggest season yet.   Badlands, Knoxville, and Jackson all agreed to work together and not promote against each others crown jewels in the upcoming year.   The USAC race was building off of a good first year and they decided to add USAC midgets to the weekend which was definitely going to make it a marquee event.   Things were actually starting to look up for the racing.   It was the November election and Chucks reaction to it that shut down the speedway.

 



I don't care if someone has $3 million of cash to buy the place with, it would NEVER have a positive ROI.

 

You see there is this thing called "opportunity cost".    Opportunity cost is what that $3 million could earn if it was invested somewhere else.    At the very least the "opportunity cost" is the interest that could be collected on the money if it was stuck into a CD.   You can get 3% on a 5 yr CD right now.     So at the very least it cost 3% to stick that money into the race track.

So $3 million at 3% is $90,000 of interest cost.   If you run the track 25 or so nights/year you have $3600/night in interest cost just on your money to buy the place.    That doesn't even consider that people that have money tend to find much better places to invest than in CD's.    5-10% is very doable in fairly safe investments, much safer than an overpriced race track.

 

Just raising the "opportunity cost" up to a normal bank interest rate of 5% makes the nightly interest $6000.    Have a few rainouts and its up to $7500/night before you can say "Chuck Sucks". 

@ $7500 it takes 500 tickets sold at $15 just to cover the interest.    Nevermind the insurance, purse, payroll, utilities, property taxes, etc



hardon
September 18, 2018 at 10:22:19 PM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
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Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on September 18 2018 at 10:26:54 AM

In all fairness, I think he was more of a fan than people think. But that is all he was, just a fan, with enough money to not care. He sponsored the races for quite a few years as well as the high paying season ending 410 race, I think it paid $10k to win and was always sponsored by dollar loan center, there was a big deal all year long about how you needed to have a quick time or a feature win to be eligible for the race, it was actually a pretty cool deal, which is why there were people excited about Chuck coming in and buying the place, people thought he cared, myself included. I was always the first to have his back in the negativity, those days are gone. I have no words since the auction. I will still say though, to the people that did nothing but bitched the entire time he had the place, If I were him, I would have closed the thing down long before he ever did. Wanna bitch about something? Well, I'll give you something to bitch about. There are promoters all over the country that are trying to get out of this deal, because of exactly that, and I hear about it first hand from a company very prominent in the racing media industry. it is happening everywhere, and it will not stop unless we appreciate what we currently have before even more places start going away.

 



I agree with everything you're say except for "saying you would have shut it down because people bitched".  This might be apples to oranges but this year Apple redesigned all of it's iPhones, if there were a bunch of people bitching about the new phones, do you think Apple is going to shut down? 

In my belief if the vote had not passed he wouldn't have shut it down, no matter what anybody was saying.  Obviosly he was drawing big crowds.  I think it's pretty safe to say that there was more people that attended the races than people who were on social media sites bashing him.  To me that would say that there were more people that liked the product than didn't.  If social media bothered him that much he should've stayed off of it.  And that's good advice for anyone.



hardon
September 18, 2018 at 10:27:50 PM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
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Posted By: paydirt28 on September 18 2018 at 01:22:47 PM

I hate what has happened to our race track and have never been on board with CB and surely am not now. Nor do I wish to take a shot at Mr. Lunstra or any of the bidders, but I have a couple honest questions that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on for me as I had moved away from the area when all of this went down.

When Huset's was originally sold, who, other than CB, had an opoortunity to buy it? Were the Rubin's approached by CB or was it public (or somewhat public) knowledge? If it was, where were these bidders/potential buyers then?

As Mr. Lunstra stated, typically if the reserve is not met, it's removed to generate some action. In my opinion anything less then the reserve price certainly does seem like a low ball offer. So why the expectation to buy a Cadillac for the price of a KIA? I somewhat understand the economics and at $3.1 million it's not a get rich quick opportunity but it is certainly a semi-long term investment opportunity that would pay off. I understand that's easily stated by a schlep like me but hey, it's fun to spend other peoples money.

Anyway, I'm going to go throw up now because I feel like I just stuck up for Chuck.



I kind of remember seeing an interview with the Rubins where they said they were burned out and while making plans for the next Dollar Loan Center race they asked him to buy it, since he had a lot of big ideas.  I don't remember where I saw that and if that came from the Rubins or Chuck himself.




hardon
September 18, 2018 at 10:35:04 PM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on September 18 2018 at 07:48:14 PM

     Apparantly the county doesn't think it's worth $3,150,000 either. Maybe chuck should call them and tell them to raise the valuation to $3,150,000 or $6 million, or $9 million, or $19 million. wink



I know buying a business is different than buying a home.  But would anyone in there right mind buy a home for $300,000 that's only assessed at $100,000 just because the owner claims to have put $1,000,000 of renovations into it?  (And I know assessed value and market value are two different numbers but I've never heard of them being off more than %10, although I could be wrong as it's not something I typically follow.)



revjimk
September 19, 2018 at 12:20:07 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on September 18 2018 at 05:37:01 PM

If anybod feels bad for him you can pay the second half property taxes:

 

Property details for: 2012 S SPLITROCK

Property Information:

Street Address:2012 S SPLITROCK BLVD
Legal Description:SPLIT ROCK TOWNSHIP 101-48 TR 1 & 2 NW1/4 ( EX LOT 1 TR 1) 10 101 48
Parcel Number:010324
School District Code:492
Date Structure was Built:1970
Billing Number:772
Total Property Size:0.00
Township:SPLIT ROCK TWP
 


Valuations: Assessment Year 2017

Assessed Value:$2,930,704.00
Equalized Value:$2,707,970.00
Agricultural Land Value:$0.00
Non-Agricultural Land Value:$359,090.00
Agricultural Building Value:$0.00
Non-Agricultural Building Value:$2,661,637.00
 


Payments: Taxes Payable 2018

2017 Taxes Payable in 2018:$48,369.77

Tax Bill First Half due April 30:$24,184.89 (Paid)

Tax Bill Second Half due October 31:$24,184.88



Wait a minute... I know you can buy houses sometimes by paying off their back taxes

I don't know the details of how it works, but would this be a possibility here????



revjimk
September 19, 2018 at 12:23:31 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Reply to:
Posted By: JonR on September 18 2018 at 09:17:43 PM

Everyone is correct in being completely confused about how Chuck decides to set a sales price for his track.  If no one would buy it at 3 million who is going to step up at 6 million?   The economics of the deal are 100% upside down.    As was said by someone else on an ealier post:  Only a very wealthy person would be able to purchase the track without ever expecting to see a positive ROI, and the weatlhy person did not become wealthy by investing in items with a negative ROI. 

However,  we need to remember that he did not close the track because of the performance of the track.   In fact, the track was poised to have it's biggest season yet.   Badlands, Knoxville, and Jackson all agreed to work together and not promote against each others crown jewels in the upcoming year.   The USAC race was building off of a good first year and they decided to add USAC midgets to the weekend which was definitely going to make it a marquee event.   Things were actually starting to look up for the racing.   It was the November election and Chucks reaction to it that shut down the speedway.

 



"It was the November election and Chucks reaction to it that shut down the speedway."

Good point! It had very little to do with racing... he had a hissy fit cause voters chose to limit his loan sharking activities




hardon
September 19, 2018 at 12:41:48 AM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on September 19 2018 at 12:20:07 AM

Wait a minute... I know you can buy houses sometimes by paying off their back taxes

I don't know the details of how it works, but would this be a possibility here????



Sorry I'm on a posting kick here tonight lol.  That is an interesting take.  The problem I see here is, as I read it all of the taxes are caught up (judging by it saying paid next to the amount due in April).  I don't know all the laws either, or for that matter any of them but from what I've heard (and that's not gospel lol) I think the taxes need to be unpaid for 2 years before uncle sam can take it.  I would assume at that point it would be similar to a forclosure to where they would give you 6 months or some amount of time to get caught up before they take it.  I'm also not sure how they would work that either if they would just want their back taxes or the assessed value.  Either way I don't think it's a great thing to hope for because it will sit idle for some time (I'm thinking years) before anything can happen.



Murphy
September 19, 2018 at 06:53:04 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
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Reply to:
Posted By: hardon on September 18 2018 at 10:22:19 PM

I agree with everything you're say except for "saying you would have shut it down because people bitched".  This might be apples to oranges but this year Apple redesigned all of it's iPhones, if there were a bunch of people bitching about the new phones, do you think Apple is going to shut down? 

In my belief if the vote had not passed he wouldn't have shut it down, no matter what anybody was saying.  Obviosly he was drawing big crowds.  I think it's pretty safe to say that there was more people that attended the races than people who were on social media sites bashing him.  To me that would say that there were more people that liked the product than didn't.  If social media bothered him that much he should've stayed off of it.  And that's good advice for anyone.



     I disagree on the second paragraph. The reason he shut down the speedway was because it was not making a profit. Think about it, even if you are a big baby and you're mad at the world for how an election turns out, what person in their right mind would shut down a company making a profit just to be stinker?

    I went a total of 6 times to badlands in 2016. I bought a ticket once- for the first race. Every other time I was given free tickets by people who had gotten them free from the speedway. I even got some free ones from the speedway as they were searching for sponsors. Once I had 6 tickets and had a hard time giving them away in the parking lot as so many people already had free tickets. In essense, a lot of free tickets were given away to bolster the crowd and build excitement, not a bad tactic, but not a money maker. I don't feel that I ever saw a crowd there that seemed big enough to cover the purse and obvious expenses.

     The vote didn't shut down the speedway. Business decisions shut down the speedway and the vote is used by some as an excuse. Wouldn't chuck have been better off just selling the place for $3,6,9 or 19 million if he was just teed off?



Shortie12
MyWebsite
September 19, 2018 at 09:08:15 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 775
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Posted By: on at


Specials such as Knoxville Nationals or the Boone IMCA Nationals are a couple races where the revenue from those races help offset the costs of their weekly races. Interest ,taxes,purse and payroll all have to be paid before any profit can be made and the numbers quoted are too high for it to survive.The saying to make a million dollars owning a racetrack you need to start with two million can apply but starting with $3M /$6M/or$ 9M would be tough to make work.




SDDTRF67
September 19, 2018 at 11:57:18 AM
Joined: 04/21/2015
Posts: 128
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This message was edited on September 19, 2018 at 11:59:50 AM by SDDTRF67
Reply to:
Posted By: on at


I get tired of people blaming the vote that went against Chuck. The ONLY way the vote had anything to do with it is IF Chuck truly took his toys and left. That's more then one person's opinion in this area about the whole ordeal.

He put an insane amount of money(not near his #'s but still insane to most, lol) into the whole "Badlands Concept" and ran it like he coulda cared less about makin' a profit. Only he knows what his true intentions were.

Still, he hasn't shut down any DLC's in any other states. He hasn't sold any of his properties in the Vegas area.

And yes, so many shows(concerts) and races I went to everyone and their grandma had FREE tickets.

More an example of bad business then anything else. I mean the pawn shop, gone, KBAD, gone, Rock & Roll Academy, Gone.

Huset's needed some upgrades but not near what he CHOSE to do. Lipstick on a pig folks. Not that it was a pig, just using the term. More like overkill.

Like I said on another post....this whole deal could of been in an epsisode of OZARK. If you've seen the show you know what I'm talking about.

My take is that it was just about the party for Chuck cause he had the money to burn. He'$ not hurtin' folk$. Only his ego.

If he really cared, he could just suck it up, take the loss and work the best deal he can get now with someone or a group of someone's with money who actually care about the future of racing in the area, because he certainly does not.

Note: I liked KBAD and am happy that most of the guys got KBACK going, while it's not the same, they are out there working, being heard and being seen.

 


"Gimme fuel, Gimme fire, Gimme that which I desire!"

acedave
September 19, 2018 at 05:12:55 PM
Joined: 09/21/2005
Posts: 9
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Reply to:
Posted By: JonR on September 18 2018 at 09:17:43 PM

Everyone is correct in being completely confused about how Chuck decides to set a sales price for his track.  If no one would buy it at 3 million who is going to step up at 6 million?   The economics of the deal are 100% upside down.    As was said by someone else on an ealier post:  Only a very wealthy person would be able to purchase the track without ever expecting to see a positive ROI, and the weatlhy person did not become wealthy by investing in items with a negative ROI. 

However,  we need to remember that he did not close the track because of the performance of the track.   In fact, the track was poised to have it's biggest season yet.   Badlands, Knoxville, and Jackson all agreed to work together and not promote against each others crown jewels in the upcoming year.   The USAC race was building off of a good first year and they decided to add USAC midgets to the weekend which was definitely going to make it a marquee event.   Things were actually starting to look up for the racing.   It was the November election and Chucks reaction to it that shut down the speedway.

 



BINGO!  We have a winner. 

Chuck never cared about making money with the track or the pawn shop. 

They were both to gain favor in South Dakota so he could keep doing what he had been doing.  Making big money on loans that allowed him to buy Husets and pour a ton of money into it.

 

 



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
September 19, 2018 at 10:37:37 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
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Since the place is still staffed and ready to go i believe if he was interested in making money he would run one or 2 huge events. He may not make a huge profit but breaking even would be better than paying staff and utilities with zero income.

Imo the fact that he maintains it but doesnt schedule anything is proff he doesnt care if it makes a profit. Then if he doesnt care about a profit he should give it to anyone who wants it but he doesnt so IMO again it seems like he is trying to sabatoge the industry.

If he were not ill-willed toward racing he would let someone operate it since it needs nothing to host an event.


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!


oswald
September 19, 2018 at 11:31:33 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
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Reply to:
Posted By: paydirt28 on September 18 2018 at 01:22:47 PM

I hate what has happened to our race track and have never been on board with CB and surely am not now. Nor do I wish to take a shot at Mr. Lunstra or any of the bidders, but I have a couple honest questions that I'm hoping someone can shed some light on for me as I had moved away from the area when all of this went down.

When Huset's was originally sold, who, other than CB, had an opoortunity to buy it? Were the Rubin's approached by CB or was it public (or somewhat public) knowledge? If it was, where were these bidders/potential buyers then?

As Mr. Lunstra stated, typically if the reserve is not met, it's removed to generate some action. In my opinion anything less then the reserve price certainly does seem like a low ball offer. So why the expectation to buy a Cadillac for the price of a KIA? I somewhat understand the economics and at $3.1 million it's not a get rich quick opportunity but it is certainly a semi-long term investment opportunity that would pay off. I understand that's easily stated by a schlep like me but hey, it's fun to spend other peoples money.

Anyway, I'm going to go throw up now because I feel like I just stuck up for Chuck.



Actually, you take a bid below the reserve just to get people started bidding. Then hope they end up going over the reserve. If bidding stops below the reserve you simply say "no sale, reserve not met". You do not and are not expected to sell a Caddy for the price of a Kia!



hardon
September 19, 2018 at 11:56:55 PM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 485
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on September 19 2018 at 06:53:04 AM

     I disagree on the second paragraph. The reason he shut down the speedway was because it was not making a profit. Think about it, even if you are a big baby and you're mad at the world for how an election turns out, what person in their right mind would shut down a company making a profit just to be stinker?

    I went a total of 6 times to badlands in 2016. I bought a ticket once- for the first race. Every other time I was given free tickets by people who had gotten them free from the speedway. I even got some free ones from the speedway as they were searching for sponsors. Once I had 6 tickets and had a hard time giving them away in the parking lot as so many people already had free tickets. In essense, a lot of free tickets were given away to bolster the crowd and build excitement, not a bad tactic, but not a money maker. I don't feel that I ever saw a crowd there that seemed big enough to cover the purse and obvious expenses.

     The vote didn't shut down the speedway. Business decisions shut down the speedway and the vote is used by some as an excuse. Wouldn't chuck have been better off just selling the place for $3,6,9 or 19 million if he was just teed off?



I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

In spite of what many people think, this guy is not stupid.  If profit were the only determination on if this survived or not, why would he put $20 million (his number) into the facility before he even ran a race?  I'm sure he saw the books from the Rubins, I wonder if they made $20 million in the entire time they owned the track?  Also why would he give so many free tickets away?  Why did he add money to the purse all the time, and things like midseason championships and other things?  To me this would seem like a long term investment.  So why would you give up on it after only a year because it wasn't making money?  Also the timing and his original press release both relate to the election.  Also his actions since then, why has he kept staff to maintain the place, why has he continued to pay taxes on the place (close to $50,000 a year)?  Wouldn't a smart businessman worried about the money just cut his losses and move on to the next investment?

A quick Google search says Dollar Loan Center is a $46 billion company.  I really don't think losing $20 million on a racetrack means much to him.  For example if you had $46,000 sitting in the bank, would you be real concerned about losing $20 at a casino?  It wasn't like this was a huge loss for him.

I think the current state of the speedway is due more to ego than anything else.  He references social media posts all the time in press releases, and he takes every chance to insult anyone anytime he can, why?  Almost sounds like high school or junior high.  Using my above example, if I had $46,000 sitting in the bank and for $20 and a few dollars a year I could make my worst enemy miserable, I might think about it but I sure hope in that situation I wouldn't go to the lengths he has.  I guess I can agree that the speedway was shut down due to profit but not profit of the speedway.

I guess the only person that really knows is him.  And even if he told me or anyone else why he's doing what he's doing, I wouldn't believe him.



Green18
September 19, 2018 at 11:59:33 PM
Joined: 05/15/2016
Posts: 204
Reply

I’ve been told Tod  bought Jackson for around $800,000.  He’s made it state if the art, quite honestly much like chuck did with Husets.  How much has Tod put into it?   2 million?  3 million??   Let’s say he now has a total of $3.5million in the place (even though I expect its more).   Everyone here says there’s no way to make a profit buying a track for 3.1million.    So if there’s no way to make a profit buying a track at 3.1million, how can Tod expect to make a profit when he has 3.5million invested in his, and only runs sprint car shows 2-3 times a month??      Honestly asking! 




JonR
September 20, 2018 at 07:25:00 AM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 872
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Reply to:
Posted By: Green18 on September 19 2018 at 11:59:33 PM

I’ve been told Tod  bought Jackson for around $800,000.  He’s made it state if the art, quite honestly much like chuck did with Husets.  How much has Tod put into it?   2 million?  3 million??   Let’s say he now has a total of $3.5million in the place (even though I expect its more).   Everyone here says there’s no way to make a profit buying a track for 3.1million.    So if there’s no way to make a profit buying a track at 3.1million, how can Tod expect to make a profit when he has 3.5million invested in his, and only runs sprint car shows 2-3 times a month??      Honestly asking! 



He doesn't.   Just like he didn't plan on making any money on NSL.   Both were expensive hobbies.  



kooks
September 20, 2018 at 09:21:42 AM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 702
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Reply to:
Posted By: JonR on September 20 2018 at 07:25:00 AM

He doesn't.   Just like he didn't plan on making any money on NSL.   Both were expensive hobbies.  



Correct.      Add to the list of expensive hobbies, owning sprint car teams.     Its a hobby that he gets to use as a tax deduction via advertising.

Todd and Chuck both have lots of money to waste on anything that they desire to do so on.

Todd is passionate about sprint car racing.   Chuck is not and never was.

 

In order for Wastelands to sell for $3 million+ the buyer is going to have to be someone like Todd that has lots of money and is passionate about Sprint Car Racing to the point that he/she/they don't need it to be profitable.     Sadly, that is a rare commodity and getting rarer every year.





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