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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: Toyota Racing Development is designing a 410 and 360 engine for 2021 Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 2 of 2   of  31 replies
heinen81
December 14, 2019 at 10:40:03 AM
Joined: 07/02/2013
Posts: 91
Reply

I saw online this week from PRI, the Toyota midget engines have eclipsed the $60,000 price point. Not good as a whole. Like I say, take the likes of Stewart and Bell away from sprint car racing, and I dont see either Ford or Toyota developing these motors. Its to protect their brands and affiliation with their respective contracted drivers and owners. I am most interested in watching Toyota navigate this, as out of everyone, I think they have the most potential to possibly go after a larger market in all dirt racing as a whole. They have a notoriously succesful supply chain, and progressive/lean way of competing in open markets. If Toyota used this as a segway into developing a crate motor for the mod markets and the likes, at a price point close to Chevrolets.... I could see them taking over and making it a profitable program. Say what you will, but they are a smart company with high margins and good products, they dont do anything half-a$$ed if they commit. 



Murphy
December 14, 2019 at 11:34:51 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply

     Is this a good place to ask whatever happened to the Mopar engine?



SprintFan19
December 14, 2019 at 11:40:42 AM
Joined: 03/05/2012
Posts: 185
Reply

Anyone consider that Ford and Toyota might be doing this to show a loss for tax purposes?

Throwing cash into a program that will never pay for itself




sprintfanatic
December 14, 2019 at 12:14:27 PM
Joined: 12/06/2004
Posts: 1007
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan19 on December 14 2019 at 11:40:42 AM

Anyone consider that Ford and Toyota might be doing this to show a loss for tax purposes?

Throwing cash into a program that will never pay for itself



Exactly, that is why Ford Motor Company introduced the Edsel brand. Smile



Murphy
December 14, 2019 at 12:37:59 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan19 on December 14 2019 at 11:40:42 AM

Anyone consider that Ford and Toyota might be doing this to show a loss for tax purposes?

Throwing cash into a program that will never pay for itself



Raise your hand if you don't understand how tax write-offs work.



egras
December 15, 2019 at 12:06:13 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: bgtexpress on December 13 2019 at 08:39:03 AM

The price of a Toyota midget engine just about killed the long running ARDC club on the east coast....Amazing how much money is spent to run the Chilli Bowl.....hundreds of midgets run one race a year, then.... poof, they all disappear back into garages, never to be seen again until the following January.....Wonder what long term effect this will have on sprint car racing in terms of costs?



The problem is, you can say "the price of _____________________(insert engine, component or chassis here) just about killed the _________________________(insert every series in motorsports here) and you would have a valid statement.

 

Racing is expensive.  It's never going to get cheaper or stay the same------ever!  You want it to keep getting more costly. It's a paradox, but when racing gets cheaper, that means it on the way out.  More expensive, means there is still strong demand.  

It's like the gas price----usually a super low gas price means a weak economy.  




Johnny Utah
December 16, 2019 at 07:22:38 AM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1221
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on December 14 2019 at 12:37:59 PM

Raise your hand if you don't understand how tax write-offs work.



Related image



revjimk
December 16, 2019 at 11:24:57 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Johnny Utah on December 16 2019 at 07:22:38 AM

Related image



Classic!!! Smile



Moparcar250
December 16, 2019 at 11:32:50 AM
Joined: 12/04/2018
Posts: 113
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on December 14 2019 at 11:34:51 AM

     Is this a good place to ask whatever happened to the Mopar engine?



 

it was getting to easy for Mopar to win, they had to go seek out other challenges 




Chet C.
MyWebsite
December 16, 2019 at 01:24:33 PM
Joined: 08/02/2015
Posts: 71
Reply
This message was edited on December 16, 2019 at 02:28:44 PM by Chet C.
Reply to:
Posted By: heinen81 on December 13 2019 at 12:43:46 PM

I was one. Not because they were too big to have interest in entering this niche market, but because the cost to R&D and develope a new engine package would be a hard investment to create a sizable return on. Too late to the game if trying to compete in the local or regional open market unless you find a way to somehow maintain or increase performance at a lower cost. Not likely.  Fords RY45 program along with their 360 ASCS engines were aimed at the open market and admittidely didnt prove profitable. I stand by my theory that Ford and Toyota needed to develope these engines for their Nascar contracted owners and drivers that still participate in dirt. I am sure it killed Ford to have TSR still running a Chevy, and Toyota the same. Would have been like Nike watching Jordan wear, and win in, Reeboks in summer leagues. A few might trickle out there to local or regional drivers with a strong allegiance to either company, or in the second hand market down the road... but I dont think either Ford or Toyotas goal here, is to make a cost effective engine option to compete for sales against whats already out there. We'll see, competiton drives the cost down in almost anyting except for racing lol.



I'm not sure they have to R&D a whole new engine package. They're already running a 410 in Short Course Off-Road racing so they may just have to adapt that to Sprints.



beezr2002
December 16, 2019 at 02:28:01 PM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: heinen81 on December 14 2019 at 10:40:03 AM

I saw online this week from PRI, the Toyota midget engines have eclipsed the $60,000 price point. Not good as a whole. Like I say, take the likes of Stewart and Bell away from sprint car racing, and I dont see either Ford or Toyota developing these motors. Its to protect their brands and affiliation with their respective contracted drivers and owners. I am most interested in watching Toyota navigate this, as out of everyone, I think they have the most potential to possibly go after a larger market in all dirt racing as a whole. They have a notoriously succesful supply chain, and progressive/lean way of competing in open markets. If Toyota used this as a segway into developing a crate motor for the mod markets and the likes, at a price point close to Chevrolets.... I could see them taking over and making it a profitable program. Say what you will, but they are a smart company with high margins and good products, they dont do anything half-a$$ed if they commit. 



Is there any photos from PRI listing the price of Toyota midget engines?  Its hard to find the price of a Speedway TRD engine. The Stanton SR11x  is now priced at $41,500,  not long ago the website stated $39, 500.  Why would people spend 60K instead of 40K? 



BigRightRear
December 18, 2019 at 08:13:04 PM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3751
Reply

Cornering the Per Night 410 Engine Lease Market? 


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May



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