Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Interesting, albeit not pleasant , subject.

I know a guy here in SF who pitted for a well known midwest race team 3-4 years ago, at that time they were spending $56,000 for a top tier new 360.

Dobmeier was on the Midco motorsports show maybe 3-5 years ago and showed a brand new 410 engine in the crate that was $66,000.

Don't remember who the builders were but shudder to think how much they are now.

Looking online builders are showing Racesaver 305s today at right around $22,000.

Some SF area history, I recall when , maybe 2008??, Mitch Runge bought a Ford 360 from Rousch that was upwards of $35,000 and everybody thought that was the end of the world.

In an Open Wheel article from around 1992 Gary Zitterich said he had about $27,000 in his 410 he ran at Husets.

In a 1974ish Stock Car Racing article on Husets regular  Harry Torgerson he was offered $2500 for his under 310 CI super mod engine and turned it down.

The cost of racing illness popped up 40+ years ago and it will never be "cured".

I'll predict in 3-5 years Racesaver 305s will be 35,000- the same Runge paid for a state of the art 360 about 14 years ago. And the racing world will still turn.

Sunday at Raceway Park the winning hobby stock had his $8500 engine claimed for whatever IMCA's hobby claim is .. $500?

So if the claimer didn't have an extra $8500 laying around he still got a winning engine.... agreed that's the only way to keep costs in check, even if it pisses a lot of people off.

I think the real conversation is what is a budget class and what in not. If the intent is made prior to the rules being created that it's a budget class and the claim rule is clearly stated then have at it, everyone knew that rule coming in. Sprint cars are not budget race cars, period. Guy's that put cars together with questionable parts to save a buck is not safe. I will argue that till the day I die. Again as I mentioned in my pervious post there are ways to save some money and use safe components even used ones but "cheap" sprint cars are dangerous. 

Interesting, albeit not pleasant , subject.

I know a guy here in SF who pitted for a well known midwest race team 3-4 years ago, at that time they were spending $56,000 for a top tier new 360.

Dobmeier was on the Midco motorsports show maybe 3-5 years ago and showed a brand new 410 engine in the crate that was $66,000.

Don't remember who the builders were but shudder to think how much they are now.

Looking online builders are showing Racesaver 305s today at right around $22,000.

Some SF area history, I recall when , maybe 2008??, Mitch Runge bought a Ford 360 from Rousch that was upwards of $35,000 and everybody thought that was the end of the world.

In an Open Wheel article from around 1992 Gary Zitterich said he had about $27,000 in his 410 he ran at Husets.

In a 1974ish Stock Car Racing article on Husets regular  Harry Torgerson he was offered $2500 for his under 310 CI super mod engine and turned it down.

The cost of racing illness popped up 40+ years ago and it will never be "cured".

I'll predict in 3-5 years Racesaver 305s will be 35,000- the same Runge paid for a state of the art 360 about 14 years ago. And the racing world will still turn.

Sunday at Raceway Park the winning hobby stock had his $8500 engine claimed for whatever IMCA's hobby claim is .. $500?

So if the claimer didn't have an extra $8500 laying around he still got a winning engine.... agreed that's the only way to keep costs in check, even if it pisses a lot of people off.

Honestly I get the feeling the 60s and a goodly chunk of the 70s costs were not that big of a problem.

     Seems like the guy who just got an $8500 engine for $500 will only get to use it until he gets it claimed next week.

Driver from my hometown racing IMCA mod sold at least 9 engines for $300 that bhe had over $900 in because he wanted to win track title & had the money to do it. Claims do not work. Those with money will spend it and you can not stop them. That is why some racesaver teams will buy a $20000 engine.

That's not what I've heard talking to the guys who raced in the 60's and 70's.  Most were broke because "racing was so damned expensive."  Remember, the minimum wage in 1968 was $1.15/hour, and an average street car cost around $3000.  So when we mention "cheap" in the 60's, it's all relative.  A $300 motor would have been VERY expensive!

I'm curious whether any components or materials used in the engines are in shortage or hard to get because of the supply chain issues?

Interesting, albeit not pleasant , subject.

I know a guy here in SF who pitted for a well known midwest race team 3-4 years ago, at that time they were spending $56,000 for a top tier new 360.

Dobmeier was on the Midco motorsports show maybe 3-5 years ago and showed a brand new 410 engine in the crate that was $66,000.

Don't remember who the builders were but shudder to think how much they are now.

Looking online builders are showing Racesaver 305s today at right around $22,000.

Some SF area history, I recall when , maybe 2008??, Mitch Runge bought a Ford 360 from Rousch that was upwards of $35,000 and everybody thought that was the end of the world.

In an Open Wheel article from around 1992 Gary Zitterich said he had about $27,000 in his 410 he ran at Husets.

In a 1974ish Stock Car Racing article on Husets regular  Harry Torgerson he was offered $2500 for his under 310 CI super mod engine and turned it down.

The cost of racing illness popped up 40+ years ago and it will never be "cured".

I'll predict in 3-5 years Racesaver 305s will be 35,000- the same Runge paid for a state of the art 360 about 14 years ago. And the racing world will still turn.

Sunday at Raceway Park the winning hobby stock had his $8500 engine claimed for whatever IMCA's hobby claim is .. $500?

So if the claimer didn't have an extra $8500 laying around he still got a winning engine.... agreed that's the only way to keep costs in check, even if it pisses a lot of people off.

When we built engines for Dennis Roth (Beefpackers) in the mid to late 90's the engines were $38,000.

They would run them for one full season then send them in over the winter to be freshened, and would sell for $27,000.  

Towards the end of the year around September/October we would start on another six pack of engines for the next season.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but are you saying back then they could run an entire season with 6 engines without a freshening them?  If so I think that was pretty reasonable back then.  Just doing some quick math, it looks like their entire engine bill for the year would've been $66,000.  I'm sure you easily made that back in winnings back then?

Wesmar, what's the number for a motor today ? I've heard some builders are at 66k. 

Egras usually I like your posts, don't know how you slipped so far off the rails here.

Let's say in 1965 a racer went to his local track Frog Fart Speedway with A '57 Chevy if he ran the "late model" class or a '36 Ford coupe if he ran the "modified" class. Let's say he won a feature and walked out with $100. That was 1/3 of the value of the $300 327 engine he bought at Sugar Shane's Chevrolet. You are saying today a LM or 410 racer with a $66,000 engine could win $22,000 at a weekly show. I don't even want to get into how silly this is.

Thanks for that info Wesmar. Essentially a WoO engine from 1999 costed about what a Racesaver 305 will cost in 2029. The 305 guys will still be racing for essentially the same purse in 2029 but the pit pass prices will be the only increase the racers will see probably be $50 by then. We gotta love how "progress" affects our beloved racing industry

Wesmar, what's the number for a motor today ? I've heard some builders are at 66k. 

 They would send them in for rebuilds every 12 races, max.