|
|
|
|
|
Topic: Schatz questions Outlaw format
|
Email this topic to a friend |
Subscribe to this Topic
| Report this Topic to Moderator
|
|
Page 2 of 2 of 30 replies
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
01:53:57 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/16/2008
|
|
Posts:
|
979
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 6416 on October 07 2019 at 06:25:06 PM
Rules need to be changed to give the cars less grip and make the driver & mechanics more of a factor. Cars are just too locked down. Outlaws have a distinct advantage at time trials since they do it every show. Posse was not very lucky at the draws this year either,Of the six WoO races the grove had I only went on the first night. Used to go to all of them, but after a while it gets old.
|
You act like it's easy to set a car up the way it is now. It's harder than ever to find the advantage. Have you ever tried?
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
01:55:02 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/16/2008
|
|
Posts:
|
979
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on October 07 2019 at 09:59:35 PM
Out of all the ideas that have been stated, and some are intriguing, the big question will be. What happens when you still have front row winners of the heat & feature?
It will happen & will happen more than most think. I just think some automatically think that oh there is an invert so everything is going to be exciting. 2013 & 2014 this board had the same threads about front row or top 2 row winners. I'd much rather have the best team win and lead all 30laps versus a team that formatted or inverted it's way to lead all 30laps.
As far as Schatz goes, I don't think he was criticizing but if he was, he hasn't had a problem with it the past 3years when he was winning all the time. Now he does? Again, I don't think he was criticizing though
|
Correct on all statements !
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
03:06:44 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/22/2008
|
|
Posts:
|
2441
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on October 07 2019 at 09:59:35 PM
Out of all the ideas that have been stated, and some are intriguing, the big question will be. What happens when you still have front row winners of the heat & feature?
It will happen & will happen more than most think. I just think some automatically think that oh there is an invert so everything is going to be exciting. 2013 & 2014 this board had the same threads about front row or top 2 row winners. I'd much rather have the best team win and lead all 30laps versus a team that formatted or inverted it's way to lead all 30laps.
As far as Schatz goes, I don't think he was criticizing but if he was, he hasn't had a problem with it the past 3years when he was winning all the time. Now he does? Again, I don't think he was criticizing though
|
Correct! When the WOO did invert 4 cars in the heat races, they were still won from the front row. Too may fast, even cars that are hard to pass on a tacky, fast track for that to work.
A
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
03:30:29 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/02/2017
|
|
Posts:
|
292
|
|
|
|
He's not wrong, but I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect format aside from starting heads up after twin heats (DC format) which might be perfect when it comes to fairness but leaves a bit to be desired from those looking for some level of handicapping to make the races more interesting. Eventually the need to draw for something will creep in and if that happens it becomes less fair. I don't think Saturday was the best example of the draw deciding the race, as the track was at least racey on Saturday. Look at the second Outlaw swing in PA where there was a lot of weather resulting in one lane tracks. Those races were won during the draw, this Saturday the draw played a part but Schatz, Pittman, and others all had opportunities to race to the front and either didn't have the luck (badly timed cautions) or made mistakes that cost them their chance.
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
06:39:48 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
7614
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Igo-Ono on October 08 2019 at 01:00:26 PM
All I know is that I see far more passing and side-by-side racing at a nonwing race than at a winged race. That’s always been true to some extent, but these days the disparity is overwhelming. Whatever the format, it seems like nearly every winged heat race is indistinguishable from a hot lap session.
The traction and aerodynamics of today’s winged cars make the cars go really fast but hinder the actual racing.
|
Yea, I prefer wingless too. Occasionally they're follow the leader, but thats life....
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
10:20:00 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
11/23/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
3943
|
|
|
|
Eliminate time trials and have everyone draw a pill to set up heats and then run TWO of them totally inverted. In other words start on the pole for your first heat and start dead last for your second heat. By NOT time trialing you would have saved the track a bunch to allow the two heat races. You can now set your B and A straight up by points and the fastest cars (almost always the Outlaws) will have to actually race in the now meaningful Heat Races.
Australia does something similar to this and their races always seem to be more entertaing.
It has become painfully obvious that the current format doesn't work, its boring with so little if any passing until the Feature. What scares me is the crowds are still good and since the Outlaws dominate this format there will not be any changes, sadly. The long time Sprint/Outlaw fan has gradually lost interest and the newbies don't know a good race from a parade as long as they go fast....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
October 08, 2019 at
10:22:40 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
11/23/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
3943
|
|
|
|
Eliminate time trials and have everyone draw a pill to set up heats and then run TWO of them totally inverted. In other words start on the pole for your first heat and start dead last for your second heat. By NOT time trialing you would have saved the track a bunch to allow the two heat races. You can now set your B and A straight up by points and the fastest cars (almost always the Outlaws) will have to actually race in the now meaningful Heat Races.
Australia does something similar to this and their races always seem to be more entertaing.
It has become painfully obvious that the current format doesn't work, its boring with so little if any passing until the Feature. What scares me is the crowds are still good and since the Outlaws dominate this format there will not be any changes, sadly. The long time Sprint/Outlaw fan has gradually lost interest and the newbies don't know a good race from a parade as long as they go fast....
|
|
|
|
|
October 09, 2019 at
08:51:25 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/02/2017
|
|
Posts:
|
292
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: MSPN on October 08 2019 at 10:22:40 PM
Eliminate time trials and have everyone draw a pill to set up heats and then run TWO of them totally inverted. In other words start on the pole for your first heat and start dead last for your second heat. By NOT time trialing you would have saved the track a bunch to allow the two heat races. You can now set your B and A straight up by points and the fastest cars (almost always the Outlaws) will have to actually race in the now meaningful Heat Races.
Australia does something similar to this and their races always seem to be more entertaing.
It has become painfully obvious that the current format doesn't work, its boring with so little if any passing until the Feature. What scares me is the crowds are still good and since the Outlaws dominate this format there will not be any changes, sadly. The long time Sprint/Outlaw fan has gradually lost interest and the newbies don't know a good race from a parade as long as they go fast....
|
Fully agree - the format in AU is miles better than what we have here. The Dirt Classic is the only thing that is close.
|
|
|
|
|
October 09, 2019 at
02:49:51 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
7614
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: MSPN on October 08 2019 at 10:20:00 PM
Eliminate time trials and have everyone draw a pill to set up heats and then run TWO of them totally inverted. In other words start on the pole for your first heat and start dead last for your second heat. By NOT time trialing you would have saved the track a bunch to allow the two heat races. You can now set your B and A straight up by points and the fastest cars (almost always the Outlaws) will have to actually race in the now meaningful Heat Races.
Australia does something similar to this and their races always seem to be more entertaing.
It has become painfully obvious that the current format doesn't work, its boring with so little if any passing until the Feature. What scares me is the crowds are still good and since the Outlaws dominate this format there will not be any changes, sadly. The long time Sprint/Outlaw fan has gradually lost interest and the newbies don't know a good race from a parade as long as they go fast....
|
I've always liked that idea....
|
|
|
|
|
|
October 10, 2019 at
01:13:30 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/24/2016
|
|
Posts:
|
1724
|
|
|
|
I like two inverted heats from a pull draw. At least would be nice to see a 10 event sample to discuss the pros and cons. Maybe the WoO should try something new just to keep things fresh.
Even though I may not know you, I
care what most of you think!
|
|
|
|
October 10, 2019 at
11:04:07 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
06/04/2012
|
|
Posts:
|
1737
|
|
|
|
Lining up a race whether its a heat race or heat race with pacing points makes me nervous and cringe a little bit. For one it seems to gimmicky, two just from a competition standpoint it makes the whole program for something that is supposed to be professional unlegitimate, three you are still going to get heats with little passing especially on the bigger tracks, four since its up to chance you could have a driver get into a heat with relatively lower competition and strong drivers against each other in another one. You add in a full invert for the second heat on some and you still will get little to know passing. Then to add to all of this, you will still get feature winners from the front row especially at tracks like Williams Grove. As said before, no format is perfect but there are some that make it appear to be more professional & like a legitimate sports competition than others. Heats line up by pill draw just seems like a way of fans who don't like qualifying (oddly it seems like older fans rather than younger ones which is odd considering all the crap that is talked about low attention span with young people) and want to do away with it because its "boring." Qualifying does not take that long in the grand scheme of things, usually less than 30mins. Plus it seems that more and more Outlaw races are being well attended now than before, I would say keep things the same as people keep showing up.
|
|
|
