Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Thanks for that video Ford.  Everybody else.....Watch that s*#t. That's how it's done. 

Skunk River Gumbo & Zook Clay and awesome track prep!  

Great video.  I think I have watched it every year now for the past 4 or 5 years.  Its good every time becasue it serves as such a great reminder.  Some tracks have prep guys because its their job.  Knoxville has the Dunkin's as track prep guys because its their passion.  TLC goes a long ways in track prep.....obviously!!! 

It has nothing to do with the Iowa black mud.  I have been to another track real close to Knoxville that has horrible seating and every now and then they miss the track prep.  Way too dry and very little passing.  Now mind you I haven't been to Iowa the last 4 years.  I have been watching The Nationals on the cushion the last 4 years until I get enough vacation time to go out again.

It has everything to do with track prep.

1. Make sure you have enough water on the track for a great racing surface.  Should be really wet at the beginning of the  night and getting a little slicked off during the feature, but still have grip like Knoxville did where the drivers can make exciting moves throughout the feature.

2. Don't run it in so hard that the cars can't get a grip on the track.  Only use pushtrucks to finish running in the track surface and when the pushtrucks are done see # 3.

3. Let the racecars finish running in the track instead of making it so hard it is like asphalt before you even start.

4. Don't run in the cushion after warmups or the heats.

5. Enjoy your night of racing!  Just like Knoxville if you do the track prep this way.  Fans will be talking about it for months and maybe even years to come.  What a great racetrack Knoxville is!! 

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Central PA does have the stuff they use at Knoxville it is called H2O.  It has nothing to do with the black clay and everything to do with track prep!  Some PA tracks don't use enough of it and they pack the track so hard it is like asphalt before they even start warmups.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Knoxville definitely starts with the track wetter than most places.  Those first few laps of the first hot lap group are basically just half throttle & slinging mud.  

Watch the video. At 4:08 he specifically says that type of dirt DOES make a big difference.

Obviously time, effort & know how are a big part of it too...

Have you ever tried track prep??????

The dirt does make a difference but he's also right about what be said. Every track has dirt that's different to some degree but whenever you pack it in rock hard before warm ups are even ran and you do the same to the cushion 23 times a night, it doesn't matter if it's Susky red clay or Knoxville's legendary black gumbo, the results will be the same. 

Hopefully the new clay makes a difference but in their case, I think the clay they have is just fine when they don't beat it down until it reaches the consistency of pavement.

And that's how it should be. Let the track work in naturally. There was a time when tracks like that stayed that way all night but nowadays, those 900 horsepower motors and big gummy tires blow the track off on their own with little to no assistance. 

We'll see come Tuscarora 50

I'm the first to admit I don't know diddley about track prep. But i can tell if a race is good....

You are missing my point.  Yes, you do need to know your clay and how much water to add to make great racing.  Having said that you don't need the black clay to have that type of racing.   You need to get the water down "unlike some PA tracks " in the track and not pack it so tight it is like asphalt before the racing begins.   That has never been sprintcar racing to me.  That is asphalt racing  

Some tracks in PA think you can't have a good race unless it is hard black and dry by the end of warmups or halfway through the heats.  

Knoxville proved them wrong 5 times over the last week of 410 racing.  I hope they were watching how racing can be if you prepare a track correctly.

No, I have never tried track prep.....but watched the Duncans live in person prepare Knoxville many times and I have seen how some tracks in PA prepare their tracks and the difference is like night and day.  

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Often imitated, but never duplicated!

This year was my first trip to Knoxville. I have visited the “dust palace” many times this year and also visited the grove a few times as well. Things I noticed. 1.they do not use heavy equipment to run in track. Only push trucks. 2. After running in track trucks stop on backstretch and use an oar-like tool to scrap mud off of trucks. Have never seen this at any local track. 3. Push trucks run in track in reverse direction. Don’t know why just know different. 4. First session of hot laps finishes packing the track. They run some laps at 1/2 speed then run some slow laps then back at speed.   The locals at Knoxville told me the track was slick and slow this year. Still they ran quicker then most every night around here. It did get a little dusty Saturday night but nothing like at the local pa tracks. Also a couple nights they ran in the cushion but only 3/4 of the way up the track. Never did they push it to the fence. I am by no means an expert on track prep just pointing out differences.

I'm a big proponent of running in the cushion just a little bit to knock down the ledge if one develops too far down the track just to keep it moving up. More time than not, the "cushion" they run in around here isn't even a cushion. It's just a little bit of semi moist dust. 

It's great to hear that the Duncan's are still doing the track prep.  It is a family tradition.  My first time @ Knoxville was in 1972 and they were preparing the track then.  One of the first few years I was there and we had some heavy rain and many of us - spectators and drivers - were out on the track helping to dig troughs so the excess water would flow into the infield.  They know what they are doing with that great clay.   I've never understood why people think that Eldora is so great.  The few times I have been there and friends have been there and I've seen on TV - it is a dust bowl.  When people walk in with respirators you know it's going to be bad.    I don't remember the details but there was a track in either Illinois or Indiana, I think, that had some retired guys prepping the track and they would go out every day of the week and check where the moisture was.  If needed - they would water the track then.  They kept the moisture in the clay all week so that on the weekend they had a good racing surface.  What a great idea.   Thank you - Duncan family.

Our local grass root track was prepped by my brother for several years. When he took over he started watering it on Thursday after work then again Friday and more Sat as the cars showed up. On Sat it was wet and slippery for hot laps with some cars getting stuck if trying to go to slow thru the banking as they slid down the slope. People cursed him for about a year until they realized the track was awesome by the feature and the show didnt include timetrials for the water truck during the event.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

If your brother lived in Central PA, especially in Juniata County, they'd probably throw him in jail and try to have him deported back to Canada for that.

Boy, isn't that the truth.  

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

They prep it just right for winged sprints most of the time. They need to provide more grip when the non-wing cars run there, however. Unlike most tracks, they do their prep before the races start and don't ever touch it during the night. I've seen them pack the cushion years ago but they must have learned their lesson. Most other tracks I've been to this year in the Midwest have ended up bad. They start out good and then the crew does everything they can to destroy it and turn it into a dust bowl. I'm so sick of it I've cut back on going to races...tired of getting pissed off almost every time.