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Topic: Schatz's new sponsor, sort of, and is Ford a question mark Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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dirtraceorbust
MyWebsite
March 07, 2018 at 12:50:52 PM
Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 480
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Schatz’s sponsor and WoO sponsor Artic Cat sold to Textron, $247 million, old news here but I didn’t’see it,  an aviation and defense contractor.  And huge, building Cessna and Beechcraft airplanes, Bell Helicopters, Golf Carts, $900 Million Net Income and $17 billion revenue 2016.   But it was odd that Schatz’s uniform after the win at Vegas did not have the Ford emblem on it and its not on the grandstand side top wing. TEXTRON takes up too much room I think.. 

As Ron Shaver said in January Speed Sport, “Ford engine should be ready in July”.  Who believes that?  Shaver went on to say as printed on Hoseheads previously, the Chevy-based engines he builds for Schatz and others were “producing 942 HP last year and for 2018 those powerplants will produce 18 HP more than last year”.  960 is a big number to meet for sure.    

It’s funny but you get blasted if you mention a sprint car as having a Shaver Chevy or Kistler Chevy or a Fisher Chevy or pick-your-builder Chevy engine.  Can’t use the word Chevy here.  But its ok to use the word Ford as we’ve witnessed here whenever talking about Schatz’s future engine and that’s an engine that ABSOLUTELY does not have anything at all in common with any Ford engine EVER produced other than having pistons and valves, etc. You could call it a widget if you want.  Several times over the years I’ve asked WoO crew members or crew chiefs, what engine was in most of the sprint cars and to a man all thought they were all Chevy engines except for a MOPAR or two.  The point is, they had no problem using the word Chevy.   And as engine builder Paul Kistler on his webpage says he uses “all Chevy small blocks” in his 410 builds.  In the February issue of Flat Out long time Flat Out monthly writer Bob Mays on his page nine editorial, in bold print says “The same basic Chevrolet small block engine, which is in 99% of Sprint Cars today, is the engine that sat in the frame rails in 1956”.  Obviously with expensive and stronger internal parts, no doubt, as the engines have to last under huge pressure and RPMs that a stock Chevy car/truck don’t need.  Again, the word Chevy.   I would have expected May’s to be raked over the coals in this forum, but probably better to not mention it at all, after all, how many forum members get Flat Out or Sprint Car and Midget magazine, so keep that and similar statements quiet.  

Google “sprint car engines” and it will routinely say,  “the engines are usually Chevy based small block”.   Seriously though, Donny Schatz and Tony Stewart have to be having mixed feelings about their Ford contract.  I mean those Chevy sprint car engines (pardon my language) are tearing it up.  Ya don’t build a house overnight.  But it’s been two years?  IMHO


  


motorhead748
March 07, 2018 at 01:30:43 PM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 470
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dirtraceorbust on March 07 2018 at 12:50:52 PM

Schatz’s sponsor and WoO sponsor Artic Cat sold to Textron, $247 million, old news here but I didn’t’see it,  an aviation and defense contractor.  And huge, building Cessna and Beechcraft airplanes, Bell Helicopters, Golf Carts, $900 Million Net Income and $17 billion revenue 2016.   But it was odd that Schatz’s uniform after the win at Vegas did not have the Ford emblem on it and its not on the grandstand side top wing. TEXTRON takes up too much room I think.. 

As Ron Shaver said in January Speed Sport, “Ford engine should be ready in July”.  Who believes that?  Shaver went on to say as printed on Hoseheads previously, the Chevy-based engines he builds for Schatz and others were “producing 942 HP last year and for 2018 those powerplants will produce 18 HP more than last year”.  960 is a big number to meet for sure.    

It’s funny but you get blasted if you mention a sprint car as having a Shaver Chevy or Kistler Chevy or a Fisher Chevy or pick-your-builder Chevy engine.  Can’t use the word Chevy here.  But its ok to use the word Ford as we’ve witnessed here whenever talking about Schatz’s future engine and that’s an engine that ABSOLUTELY does not have anything at all in common with any Ford engine EVER produced other than having pistons and valves, etc. You could call it a widget if you want.  Several times over the years I’ve asked WoO crew members or crew chiefs, what engine was in most of the sprint cars and to a man all thought they were all Chevy engines except for a MOPAR or two.  The point is, they had no problem using the word Chevy.   And as engine builder Paul Kistler on his webpage says he uses “all Chevy small blocks” in his 410 builds.  In the February issue of Flat Out long time Flat Out monthly writer Bob Mays on his page nine editorial, in bold print says “The same basic Chevrolet small block engine, which is in 99% of Sprint Cars today, is the engine that sat in the frame rails in 1956”.  Obviously with expensive and stronger internal parts, no doubt, as the engines have to last under huge pressure and RPMs that a stock Chevy car/truck don’t need.  Again, the word Chevy.   I would have expected May’s to be raked over the coals in this forum, but probably better to not mention it at all, after all, how many forum members get Flat Out or Sprint Car and Midget magazine, so keep that and similar statements quiet.  

Google “sprint car engines” and it will routinely say,  “the engines are usually Chevy based small block”.   Seriously though, Donny Schatz and Tony Stewart have to be having mixed feelings about their Ford contract.  I mean those Chevy sprint car engines (pardon my language) are tearing it up.  Ya don’t build a house overnight.  But it’s been two years?  IMHO



I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make.  And using the word ford is no more than identifying an engine that is different from the norm.  As far as the ford having no connection to any ford engine, how do you know? I have no knowledge of what they are using for a block & cylinder heads but I'd wager it has some lineage to some ford as much as the current crop of chevys have to a 265....as far as TSR having mixed feelings with their contract....why would they? I'm sure ford is footing the bill 100% and then some for the engine and I'd also wager that it's in the contract that they will not run it until it's at least as good as what they have now  

... 



Jake B.
March 07, 2018 at 02:38:14 PM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 336
Reply
This message was edited on March 07, 2018 at 02:41:00 PM by Jake B.

Ford logos appear prominently on both sides of the hood and on the face of the nose wing, and on the upper left chest of Donny's suit.  What are you getting at with the logo comment?


Signature here.

Wesmar
March 07, 2018 at 04:20:18 PM
Joined: 09/29/2005
Posts: 591
Reply

Following..........



bighess11
March 07, 2018 at 07:51:00 PM
Joined: 07/01/2013
Posts: 115
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dirtraceorbust on March 07 2018 at 12:50:52 PM

Schatz’s sponsor and WoO sponsor Artic Cat sold to Textron, $247 million, old news here but I didn’t’see it,  an aviation and defense contractor.  And huge, building Cessna and Beechcraft airplanes, Bell Helicopters, Golf Carts, $900 Million Net Income and $17 billion revenue 2016.   But it was odd that Schatz’s uniform after the win at Vegas did not have the Ford emblem on it and its not on the grandstand side top wing. TEXTRON takes up too much room I think.. 

As Ron Shaver said in January Speed Sport, “Ford engine should be ready in July”.  Who believes that?  Shaver went on to say as printed on Hoseheads previously, the Chevy-based engines he builds for Schatz and others were “producing 942 HP last year and for 2018 those powerplants will produce 18 HP more than last year”.  960 is a big number to meet for sure.    

It’s funny but you get blasted if you mention a sprint car as having a Shaver Chevy or Kistler Chevy or a Fisher Chevy or pick-your-builder Chevy engine.  Can’t use the word Chevy here.  But its ok to use the word Ford as we’ve witnessed here whenever talking about Schatz’s future engine and that’s an engine that ABSOLUTELY does not have anything at all in common with any Ford engine EVER produced other than having pistons and valves, etc. You could call it a widget if you want.  Several times over the years I’ve asked WoO crew members or crew chiefs, what engine was in most of the sprint cars and to a man all thought they were all Chevy engines except for a MOPAR or two.  The point is, they had no problem using the word Chevy.   And as engine builder Paul Kistler on his webpage says he uses “all Chevy small blocks” in his 410 builds.  In the February issue of Flat Out long time Flat Out monthly writer Bob Mays on his page nine editorial, in bold print says “The same basic Chevrolet small block engine, which is in 99% of Sprint Cars today, is the engine that sat in the frame rails in 1956”.  Obviously with expensive and stronger internal parts, no doubt, as the engines have to last under huge pressure and RPMs that a stock Chevy car/truck don’t need.  Again, the word Chevy.   I would have expected May’s to be raked over the coals in this forum, but probably better to not mention it at all, after all, how many forum members get Flat Out or Sprint Car and Midget magazine, so keep that and similar statements quiet.  

Google “sprint car engines” and it will routinely say,  “the engines are usually Chevy based small block”.   Seriously though, Donny Schatz and Tony Stewart have to be having mixed feelings about their Ford contract.  I mean those Chevy sprint car engines (pardon my language) are tearing it up.  Ya don’t build a house overnight.  But it’s been two years?  IMHO



Butthurt much?


-

alum.427
March 07, 2018 at 08:38:08 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 511
Reply

NEWS FLASH.....There going to get Dave Blaney back in the #10 Luna ford so all you blue oval guys have something to cheer about. 



Shortie12
MyWebsite
March 08, 2018 at 01:08:39 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 334
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on March 07 2018 at 08:38:08 PM

NEWS FLASH.....There going to get Dave Blaney back in the #10 Luna ford so all you blue oval guys have something to cheer about. 



If they get a Ford based engine to develop horsepower above the current engines it will cost sprint car racing in general a lot of money.About the time they get  to 1000H.P. they will change wing,tires ,or weight to slow them down. Donny Schatz himself tried to use a crate  based larger displacement engine to cut costs and no one was interested and it was cheaper and I think was in winners circle at least once.People would pay to see the current WOO members run a  Racesaver and they normal top 6 would still be at front.



alum.427
March 08, 2018 at 06:29:59 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 511
Reply

racesaver and woo ???? THAT'S FUNNY



saphead
March 08, 2018 at 06:41:28 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 507
Reply

Big f'ing deal for a few thousand more I can go buy  Dodge Challenger Hellcat with 842 HP that I can drive on the street with airbags & air conditioning. 

I'd say the engine builders better step it up. 



motorhead748
March 08, 2018 at 01:04:35 PM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 470
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: saphead on March 08 2018 at 06:41:28 AM

Big f'ing deal for a few thousand more I can go buy  Dodge Challenger Hellcat with 842 HP that I can drive on the street with airbags & air conditioning. 

I'd say the engine builders better step it up. 



Lol!! Then you'd have a car that would get lapped by a street stock at any dirt track in the country 



SAF92
March 08, 2018 at 03:00:20 PM
Joined: 01/24/2018
Posts: 123
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dirtraceorbust on March 07 2018 at 12:50:52 PM

Schatz’s sponsor and WoO sponsor Artic Cat sold to Textron, $247 million, old news here but I didn’t’see it,  an aviation and defense contractor.  And huge, building Cessna and Beechcraft airplanes, Bell Helicopters, Golf Carts, $900 Million Net Income and $17 billion revenue 2016.   But it was odd that Schatz’s uniform after the win at Vegas did not have the Ford emblem on it and its not on the grandstand side top wing. TEXTRON takes up too much room I think.. 

As Ron Shaver said in January Speed Sport, “Ford engine should be ready in July”.  Who believes that?  Shaver went on to say as printed on Hoseheads previously, the Chevy-based engines he builds for Schatz and others were “producing 942 HP last year and for 2018 those powerplants will produce 18 HP more than last year”.  960 is a big number to meet for sure.    

It’s funny but you get blasted if you mention a sprint car as having a Shaver Chevy or Kistler Chevy or a Fisher Chevy or pick-your-builder Chevy engine.  Can’t use the word Chevy here.  But its ok to use the word Ford as we’ve witnessed here whenever talking about Schatz’s future engine and that’s an engine that ABSOLUTELY does not have anything at all in common with any Ford engine EVER produced other than having pistons and valves, etc. You could call it a widget if you want.  Several times over the years I’ve asked WoO crew members or crew chiefs, what engine was in most of the sprint cars and to a man all thought they were all Chevy engines except for a MOPAR or two.  The point is, they had no problem using the word Chevy.   And as engine builder Paul Kistler on his webpage says he uses “all Chevy small blocks” in his 410 builds.  In the February issue of Flat Out long time Flat Out monthly writer Bob Mays on his page nine editorial, in bold print says “The same basic Chevrolet small block engine, which is in 99% of Sprint Cars today, is the engine that sat in the frame rails in 1956”.  Obviously with expensive and stronger internal parts, no doubt, as the engines have to last under huge pressure and RPMs that a stock Chevy car/truck don’t need.  Again, the word Chevy.   I would have expected May’s to be raked over the coals in this forum, but probably better to not mention it at all, after all, how many forum members get Flat Out or Sprint Car and Midget magazine, so keep that and similar statements quiet.  

Google “sprint car engines” and it will routinely say,  “the engines are usually Chevy based small block”.   Seriously though, Donny Schatz and Tony Stewart have to be having mixed feelings about their Ford contract.  I mean those Chevy sprint car engines (pardon my language) are tearing it up.  Ya don’t build a house overnight.  But it’s been two years?  IMHO



"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul."

 

Just messing... but seriously not sure where you were going with any of this. Of course "Chevys" are winning everything... thats all there is. And thats why Ford is taking their sweet time so once they enter competition theyre up to par. Im sure Tony and Donny wouldn't put a motor in the no. 15 unless it was up to their standards. Im sure they'll get there... Brandon Sheppard and Josh Richards are doing ok with their Ford powered late models.



blazer00
March 08, 2018 at 09:15:41 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1932
Reply

Let's get this straight.........a Gearte is a Gearte.......a Shaver is a Shaver......a Ott is a Ott......a Kistler is a Kistler.......a Wesmar is a Wesmar.....etc....etc....etc.......got it?!



Shortie12
MyWebsite
March 09, 2018 at 07:47:19 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 334
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on March 08 2018 at 09:15:41 PM

Let's get this straight.........a Gearte is a Gearte.......a Shaver is a Shaver......a Ott is a Ott......a Kistler is a Kistler.......a Wesmar is a Wesmar.....etc....etc....etc.......got it?!



The big 3 Ford,Doge,and Chevy are building cars with over 850H.P. with warranty so they are very capable of making go fast crate motors that sell for a lot less than a 60K plus sprint car motor.They also could supply NASCAR.My friend had a HEMI dart and while we we spinning our tires and trying to go straight the Hellcat was gone.To show how far the sprint car program has gone R&H farms had a sprinter I  think John Singer took care of? and I do know they won the Nationals .They used to get fuelie 327 Corvette motors from local dealerships and add injection  and better oiling and run them at Knoxville and if they failed get a new one under warranty at least once. Thats when 20 second laps were fast.



Dryslick Willie
March 09, 2018 at 08:02:46 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1200
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Shortie12 on March 09 2018 at 07:47:19 AM

The big 3 Ford,Doge,and Chevy are building cars with over 850H.P. with warranty so they are very capable of making go fast crate motors that sell for a lot less than a 60K plus sprint car motor.They also could supply NASCAR.My friend had a HEMI dart and while we we spinning our tires and trying to go straight the Hellcat was gone.To show how far the sprint car program has gone R&H farms had a sprinter I  think John Singer took care of? and I do know they won the Nationals .They used to get fuelie 327 Corvette motors from local dealerships and add injection  and better oiling and run them at Knoxville and if they failed get a new one under warranty at least once. Thats when 20 second laps were fast.



That sounds logical in one way, but would these 850 hp engines that the big 3 produce be durable enough in a sprint car setting.   Let's take that same high dollar street car with it's 850 hp engine and add a 25 square foot top wing to it that will add a ton of downforce at 140 mph.   How long would that engine survive, especially if it was turned high RPM?



racefanigan
March 09, 2018 at 09:03:06 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 135
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Dryslick Willie on March 09 2018 at 08:02:46 AM

That sounds logical in one way, but would these 850 hp engines that the big 3 produce be durable enough in a sprint car setting.   Let's take that same high dollar street car with it's 850 hp engine and add a 25 square foot top wing to it that will add a ton of downforce at 140 mph.   How long would that engine survive, especially if it was turned high RPM?



This has to be the most logical post in this thread. Absolutely, they all make 850 HP street engines, but those 850 HP engines are not made to last turning 8500-9000 RPM for 15 minutes straight while pulling a 25 sq foot wing around. They might occasionally hit that RPM in a street car, not constantly. If someone on here who owns a hell cat, or any other high hp vehicle, do a little test and take it down the interstate in third gear turning 8000 for 15 miles and see how well the engine likes it. Street vehicles are made to be driven below 3k, maybe 4k, with the occasional 7-8k spikes, not sit there for 15 minutes.

Fact is, yes, you can spend just a little bit more on your street car to have an engine that makes the same HP as an upper mediocre 40 engine. but if you want to have an engine that will last with those stresses, you will add another $25k to that figure in the engine alone.

410 sprint car racing is expensive, and it always will be. Honestly, with it being the premier sprint car class, it should be expensive. There are many a day where I wish that all forms of sprint cars were cheaper, but in a way its good that its not. If I wanted to race something cheaper, I would have bought something cheaper. I knew what I was getting into when I started, as My family owned top level 360s and won a lot of races, so I can only blame myself for my decision to do it.



paydirt28
March 09, 2018 at 11:04:34 AM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 782
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Shortie12 on March 08 2018 at 01:08:39 AM

If they get a Ford based engine to develop horsepower above the current engines it will cost sprint car racing in general a lot of money.About the time they get  to 1000H.P. they will change wing,tires ,or weight to slow them down. Donny Schatz himself tried to use a crate  based larger displacement engine to cut costs and no one was interested and it was cheaper and I think was in winners circle at least once.People would pay to see the current WOO members run a  Racesaver and they normal top 6 would still be at front.



Likely not a Ford but I would be surprised if there isn't an engine out there with 1,000hp already. I know of at least one car back at the 2016 Knoxville Nationals that was pushing 982hp. It didn't make the championship A-Main.



jdfast
March 09, 2018 at 11:47:34 AM
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 956
Reply

Shatz may already have an HP  advantage, but if it's percieved because it's the new Ford, not likely a good thing for the sport.

If the Ford made an extra 25 to 50 HP over  XXXX Chevy motor, wouldn't that obosolete the chevy motors for the serious competitiors ?

An engine war is good for the engine builders, but not as much for fans and teams (at least without big budgets).

..........

What would the sprint car world think if Toyota with Kunz started a super team with unlimited budget and motors prices jumped to $100K ? oh wait they kinda did in midgets wink

 

 



Salina Engine
MyWebsite
March 10, 2018 at 11:07:09 PM
Joined: 11/22/2017
Posts: 8
Reply

Believe it or not many teams are using restrictors in their 410s to limit horsepower to what the racetrack will hold. As for a Ford 

potentially making the Chevrolets obsolete it won’t happen. Look at Roush Yates when they entered 360 racing. Jason Johnson was 

able to win a championship with one, but was he really any faster than he was with his Ott Chevrolets. Look at everyone else who 

bought Fords at that time, many of them didnt achieve any better results. Schatz is talented enough he will win regardless of engine. 


Salina Engine 
Salina Ks
(785)823-2273

kossuth
March 11, 2018 at 12:31:28 AM
Joined: 11/02/2013
Posts: 435
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Shortie12 on March 09 2018 at 07:47:19 AM

The big 3 Ford,Doge,and Chevy are building cars with over 850H.P. with warranty so they are very capable of making go fast crate motors that sell for a lot less than a 60K plus sprint car motor.They also could supply NASCAR.My friend had a HEMI dart and while we we spinning our tires and trying to go straight the Hellcat was gone.To show how far the sprint car program has gone R&H farms had a sprinter I  think John Singer took care of? and I do know they won the Nationals .They used to get fuelie 327 Corvette motors from local dealerships and add injection  and better oiling and run them at Knoxville and if they failed get a new one under warranty at least once. Thats when 20 second laps were fast.



It's not that simple as others have indicated.  First off street motors are street motors.  The motors you are speaking of are all supercharged and quite frankly are going to lack the oiling and oil control for reliable racetrack usage.  Track days here and there isn't really the same as running around a dirt track at 120+ mph for your entire existance.  Additionally the motors you're speaking of weigh 2-300 more lbs than the current sprint motors just in their material alone.  Lets not even begin to mention the additional electronics that need to be added to run the motor.  Being the motors you're speaking of are supercharged are they going to require more cooling support on the track?  How long would these motors live being freewheeled and flogged all night long at their peak RPM?    



Dryslick Willie
March 11, 2018 at 06:04:24 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1200
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Salina Engine on March 10 2018 at 11:07:09 PM

Believe it or not many teams are using restrictors in their 410s to limit horsepower to what the racetrack will hold. As for a Ford 

potentially making the Chevrolets obsolete it won’t happen. Look at Roush Yates when they entered 360 racing. Jason Johnson was 

able to win a championship with one, but was he really any faster than he was with his Ott Chevrolets. Look at everyone else who 

bought Fords at that time, many of them didnt achieve any better results. Schatz is talented enough he will win regardless of engine. 



I agree on Schatz, the engine definetly won't matter.   On JJ's Roush 360s I would even propose he wasn't as fast as he could have been with the Chevy.   I saw evidence of that when he came to Devils Bowl in those days.   Devils Bowl is an engine track, and he was underpowered.    He lined up on the front row of a heat race one night when the track was extremely tacky next to Brad Loyet.   Loyet beat him easily into turn one and had 10 car lengths on him going into turn 3.   I'm pretty sure JJ only won one feature at Devils Bowl the whole time he was running Fords.  





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