Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

(insert me hitting a horse on the ground that is dead with a partially broken baseball bat)

AGAIN...

I think the purses would not be what they're at today if it not for the HL series. Would I prefer them all to be in one series? Yes. But I understand that's not feasible. If we start to get 16-20 traveling guys in one series, how many local racers do you think will even attempt to run? There are already guys not running b/c they know they don't have the program to run larger shows when these WOO or HL show up. NOT saying the traveling series is bad.

Both series need each other and need the local racers to run too. 

Here's a question? What is the ideal # of full time racers for anyone particular national series? 

Keep It Real

It's not just the number but the mix. The most sustainable WoO groups over the years have included 7-8 top teams, 1-2 teams on the cusp, 1-2 rookies that are field fillers and 1-2 older name drivers to fill the field. You can't have 10-12 top teams because there's not enough money to keep them going. 

Increased purses is definitely as a result of High Limit.  The beef with High Limit for me is the NASCAR influences, the endless hype by the fanboys and the BS claims they have made through the years. 

I hear the dead horse being hit again as you respond..................

Ideal number of full time racers is probably between 10-14.  Anything over that probably becomes more difficult for the series to fund.  I know there are a lot of drunk fans that think there used to be over 20 full timers with the WoO, but they would be mistaken.  I would bet over 80% of the WoO seasons on record had single-digit drivers who actually followed the full series for the season.  I believe Wolfgang either never ran a full season, or possibly competed in 1?  Sammy ran only a few--maybe 3 or 4?  The numbers both series have right now are on the higher end in the history of full time touring series.  Still, you'll see things like "the Outlaws only have what, 12 or 13 drivers this year?"  That's on the high side honestly, so not sure what the shock is.  You can look back at years in the 80's and 90's and some of those years only 5 or 6 guys competed in every race.  

Some of the interviews that Tony Stewart has done and even some of the people that have done the Sprint Car Hall of Fame panels during the Nationals have said for any series having more than 12 full time members really is not sustainable long term. Especially if you are offering two money, pit passes, point fund, and contingency awards. There are "fans" that want to see 16-20 full timers, with another 20+ locals or "true outlaws" mixed in but it really is not possible for many teams to be able to keep going on the road or a series to continue to offer what they offer. 

For one, the wear and tear of just a 50race season is probably a lot of money on equipment. Then you factor in hotel rooms (holy heck by the way, that is starting to get out of control) upkeep on the hauler and rig, fuel, replacement parts, food, tires, etc. Then you factor that even Schatz, Sweet, Rico, Gravel, and even Larson trash a chassis or 2 every season. Now factor it a team that does not even come close to wins, has the funding, or is that high in points, and the fact you are racing 70-90 times depending on rain outs. There is no way you could have that many teams. 

Which is the positive that I see in the HL. Although again, not sure how long they can keep it going, the streaming money does make it sound pretty volatile in the future if outside factors dry up that money, I do think it is a good thing. For years one of the things people ask is how come "insert drivers name here" does not run full time with the Outlaws. For 10-15 years people have said Brown, Reutzel when he was an All Star, Sunshine, Rico, variety of other teams that have come and gone. Some of those teams had said that they do not have the funding to run 80races a year and risk finishing out of the top 5 in points. High limit does offer another option to get more quality teams to race at an event and bring in those local racers for bigger purses. Just not sure why it constantly has to be Us vs Them or them vs they or whatever. I understand why as two competing businesses they themselves can have that philosophy because it does matter to the bottomline but as a race fan, I can enjoy and watch more races so its a win for me. 

Maybe more could run full time if engines didn't cost $70,000 plus dollars. Insanity.

Engines cost $70,000 because teams are willing to pay $70,000 for engines.  Also, I remember this very same conversation in the 90's.  "Maybe more could run full time if engines didn't cost $25,000 plus dollars.  Insanity"

The more things change, the more they stay the same..............

"Holy heck"???

Gosh diddly darn it, Ned....

and that is just pathetic, johnny did suggest that they hire tony.  good call...

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

If High Limit is as great as all you jokers think it is then they wouldn't need the validation...

Well the,  quote 2 running it have made it known they Hate the Woo and would want nothing more then a merger to cut a Fat check and leave. Kyle forgot real fast where the only place he could race after he misspoke was! Brad made a pretty nice living until he left?? With a merger or one series EVERYONE will lose!!! H.L. would never run races in the midwest to the extent WOO does or East coast for that matter. Brad is begging Midwest tracks to come on board weekly. Combined they are running 150 to 160 races a year. With One series who gets Cut?????

oh so now we can blame it on the internet since the 90's? hmmm, interesting.

who remembers the dating game on tv?

who remembers the loveboat, da plane da plane?

who remembers gilligans isle?

who remembers ted johnson in the seventies?

Exactly, its old school, nothing has changed, same old stuff, nothing has ever changed.

same old announcer, same old format!

i still watch the series, love sprint car racing to the max but i think many are still watching the stuff from the seventies and are loyal fans, thats great but just stuck with the old way of doing things...

and yes, just my opinion here but hate is not in my wheelhouse, we dont change and look at other

ways of seeing things we get stuck there...  

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

This is weak... do you think the Knoxville nationals, Kings Royal, or the Williams Grove national open would be diminished one bit if the world of outlaw sanction were removed? Exactly! Those are big shows because they're big shows not because of which group is sanctioning them. 

High Limit is exactly like the World of Outlaws.

I agree. There are no premier sprint car races that were started by WoO or H-L. Both have teamed up with tracks for promotional reasons.

I mean Hi Limit did invent the wheel of fortune the dice roll and the music playlist.

Good point.   Seems like I remember Knoxville telling the WoO to take a hike at some point in the past and the Nationals went a couple of years non-sanctioned.    Someone can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe the WoO wanting a cut of the ticket prices...

This is correct that the Nationals were not sanctioned by the WOO until the 70s.

There was a period in the mid 2000s that it wasn't either. Since 2012 I THINK the Nationals have been sanctioned by the WOO. 

Keep It Real

What I saw was that the WoO wanted $5 per ticket in addition to their sanctioning fee and Knoxville told them to take a  hike, which they should have done.    I can't remember where I saw that, so if it didn't happen that way I'd love to hear what actually did happen.  

At least the High Limit series haven't had their t-shirt trailers repossessed

The freedom to race whenever was debunked the first week of the first HL season. All teams were in Florida in February as usual, I don't think any HL drivers raced with the WoO that week, unlike what most of the AllStars teams used to do. I know Rico didn't race in them because when I asked him why on facebook he removed my post!