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Topic: Will there ever be another? Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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linbob
January 29, 2019 at 06:00:28 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
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After WW2 people were starved for entertainment.  Midget racing came on like a big storm.  There were tracks all over the nation coast to coast.  In New York and  New Jersey you could race 8 times a week if you wished.  You could buy a brand new Kurtis in Calif. and race it at every track you went past on way to NY then sell it for what you paid for it.  Midgets  ran on 4-5 inch tires with 60 HP in early years to 100 HP V8 60 engines to 140 hp Offy.  This ran from 1946 to about 1953 and then started to slow down.  Next came the Jalopy stock cars with 6 inch to 7 inch hard tires and stock on outside engines.  HP was baut 90-120 HP,  They went gang busters for a few years 1948-1954.  Jalopys like midgets raced all across the country. Jalopys were soon modified with OHV engines and true jalopys popularity started to fade.  Then in the 1970-80 came the IMCA modified with 8  inch tires and low cost claimer engines.  The IMCA cars became very popular across country.  Keith Knaack who came up with IMCA modified would not recognize class to day with high priced engines and chassis.  Will there everr be another class of cars that take the country by storm?  Are people just plain out of infactuation with the automobile?  




revjimk
January 29, 2019 at 06:04:27 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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This message was edited on January 29, 2019 at 06:07:56 PM by revjimk

I wouldn't hold my breath.... frown

I wish they'd get rid of 3 pt. shot in basketball too, wrecking my favorite game... but it ain't happening



JonR
January 29, 2019 at 06:39:54 PM
Joined: 05/28/2008
Posts: 872
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My answer is no.  We will never be able to get the costs out of racing which is what helped drive all of the above mentioned classes.   I thought that I may have stumbled onto it when I first visited my local 600 micro class.   However, when I went to the pits and saw teams using a 30ft trailier with a Hot shot rig, I knew that the rich had found the micro class as well.




alum.427
January 30, 2019 at 05:24:21 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1599
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Go to Tulsa for 2 weeks. The micro storm comes in first, teams with enough cars to run there own heat race. The midgets, heck if you take the top 3 teams and put all there combined cars in, you would have a line up of A main drivers that most would gladly pay to see anywhere.  Off topic.

Will you ever see a class storm across the land again. NO, what linbob mentioned was a time when guys all across the country built there own stuff. The Kurtis was the caddy in it's day. You could drive by gas stations anywhere and see real car guys working on there cars. There are no real gas stations left in this country.  



maddog53
January 30, 2019 at 11:32:00 AM
Joined: 03/18/2008
Posts: 1474
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It may not take the country by storm but it has taken the midwest by storm.  The wingLESS class based in Wilmot, has seen terrific growth in the 4 years it has been around.  Averaging over 37 cars at each event.  Jackson has adapted this clubs rules as well for what they run in Minnesota.  



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
January 30, 2019 at 12:42:10 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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This message was edited on January 31, 2019 at 06:16:07 AM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on January 29 2019 at 06:00:28 PM

After WW2 people were starved for entertainment.  Midget racing came on like a big storm.  There were tracks all over the nation coast to coast.  In New York and  New Jersey you could race 8 times a week if you wished.  You could buy a brand new Kurtis in Calif. and race it at every track you went past on way to NY then sell it for what you paid for it.  Midgets  ran on 4-5 inch tires with 60 HP in early years to 100 HP V8 60 engines to 140 hp Offy.  This ran from 1946 to about 1953 and then started to slow down.  Next came the Jalopy stock cars with 6 inch to 7 inch hard tires and stock on outside engines.  HP was baut 90-120 HP,  They went gang busters for a few years 1948-1954.  Jalopys like midgets raced all across the country. Jalopys were soon modified with OHV engines and true jalopys popularity started to fade.  Then in the 1970-80 came the IMCA modified with 8  inch tires and low cost claimer engines.  The IMCA cars became very popular across country.  Keith Knaack who came up with IMCA modified would not recognize class to day with high priced engines and chassis.  Will there everr be another class of cars that take the country by storm?  Are people just plain out of infactuation with the automobile?  



The Supermodifieds (the home built open wheel dirt track variety) were popular during the 60's.  By the end of the decade in my area they had switched from cut down home built machines to basically Sprint Cars with roll cages and wings.  Then in the early 70's the Sprints sprouted cages and the two morphed into one class that are the winged Sprints of today.  The IMCA (or WISSOTA where I live) Modifieds came in the early 80's and are the most popular class of dirt track cars up here in MInnesota.  They run for about $700 to $1000 to win and they pretty much run them at every track, most as the top class except for a few that run Late Models. 

In our area the UMSS and IMCA at places like Arlington and Jackson fill the void for a more affordable brand of Sprint Car racing.  The UMSS runs almost every weekend somewhere within an hour of home so they fill the void between 410 specials. 

If you don't have an affordable brand of non-wing racing in your area that is my favorite to come along up here.  They have a limited motor and there are always at least 18 to 20 cars with more as a support class at specials.  I'm happy with limited motors as a training ground or place for drivers who are winding down their careers.  It's fun, they can afford to put cars out there and regular nights of racing come in around $12 or $15 bucks admission at most places so it doesn't break the bank to go see them.

As far as new classes, we saw that some years back when the B Modifieds or "Midwest Modifieds" as they're sometimes called started popping up.  Same thing with the UMSS non-wing cars, they started doing six cars exhibtions and not even ten years later there are a ton of them with similar clubs springing up in northern and southern Minnesota and eastern Wisconsin has their Wisconsin Wingless associated with the IRA.

Maybe there will be another class popping up someday but I can't think of anything poised to make that kind of impact like the two classes I mentioned. 

 


Stan Meissner


Shortie12
MyWebsite
January 30, 2019 at 12:49:55 PM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 775
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The 360s started at Knoxville with 2 Bl carbs and steel wheels and the point champion that year if I remember correctly told me his bottom line was his best ever. Now they are basically the same as 410s except 50 cu inches.The micros are fast but  are about same money as a 305.Midjets are so cool at Tulsa with 350 cars but the rest of the year you dont hear much about them and they arent cheap.. The Ford Focus deal looked promising..We used to race gokarts and even the clones are expensive. The cheapest thing is still the price of admission!.The crate motors at around $14K are cheaper than building a top 305.The racesavers are doing well on shorter tracks and I would think much cheaper than Knoxville 305s or 376 in crates.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
January 30, 2019 at 01:32:38 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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Reply to:
Posted By: Shortie12 on January 30 2019 at 12:49:55 PM

The 360s started at Knoxville with 2 Bl carbs and steel wheels and the point champion that year if I remember correctly told me his bottom line was his best ever. Now they are basically the same as 410s except 50 cu inches.The micros are fast but  are about same money as a 305.Midjets are so cool at Tulsa with 350 cars but the rest of the year you dont hear much about them and they arent cheap.. The Ford Focus deal looked promising..We used to race gokarts and even the clones are expensive. The cheapest thing is still the price of admission!.The crate motors at around $14K are cheaper than building a top 305.The racesavers are doing well on shorter tracks and I would think much cheaper than Knoxville 305s or 376 in crates.



The funny thing is that today people blast the 305's because they're too slow.  Then they go over and check out the museum and admire drivers from the 50's and 60's who never turned a lap as fast as today's 305's in their entire careers.  We thought those non wing, cageless cars of the 60's with the injector stacks sticking out of the hood were the most awesome cars on the planet.  It's a good thing we liked them and weren't speed snobs or Sprint Car racing wouldn't be around today.  wink


Stan Meissner

Shortie12
MyWebsite
January 30, 2019 at 03:42:46 PM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 775
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There is a class called Outlaw Mini mods that have been around for awhile that are all the same BATWING chasis and all run stock 600 Suzukis that on the righttrack are about the same as B-mods that is doing well in northern Iowa and Southern Min Kids as young as 12 are starting in them along with older racers that still want to have fun.Competitive cars are around $4500.Blake Hahn won the shoot out in one.They are a traveling series but are going to run at Stuart Iowa weekly on Wednesdays and Lansing Min most Fri..What ruins club type racing is the relaxed engine rules and they are not letting that happen.I have one and even at 73 years old it is ablast. The key to any support class is low cost.




linbob
January 30, 2019 at 05:33:16 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
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Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on January 30 2019 at 01:32:38 PM

The funny thing is that today people blast the 305's because they're too slow.  Then they go over and check out the museum and admire drivers from the 50's and 60's who never turned a lap as fast as today's 305's in their entire careers.  We thought those non wing, cageless cars of the 60's with the injector stacks sticking out of the hood were the most awesome cars on the planet.  It's a good thing we liked them and weren't speed snobs or Sprint Car racing wouldn't be around today.  wink



The paid fans in grandstands will determine the future of racing.  Ce-Mar in Cedar Rapis had 4,000-6,000 fans at weekly shows in the late 40,s.  There is not a weekly race track in Iowa that would come close to this.  Knoxville would probably be closest in state but not near that amount of people.  Hawkeye Downs had a sprint car race in 1946 that drew 25,000 fans.  We must also remember the population was only 1/2 as many people then as today.   People just do not care that much about automobiles today as they did years ago.  They want to go from point A to B and that is all they care about.  This reflects on the future of racing .



revjimk
January 30, 2019 at 06:27:59 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Cars nowadays are too high tech, you can't really work on them like the good ole days. Young folks are interested in the newest smartphone, not this year's model of Chevies or Fords..... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/12/131217-four-theories-why-teens-drive-less-today/



revjimk
January 30, 2019 at 07:12:18 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Posted By: on at


Racing isn't dying, but its not experiencing a growth spurt either. There will always be hard core enthusiasts, but its becoming a "niche" activity

Thats actually OK with me... where else do you get to meet the superstars, hang out in the pits, etc? I bet the majority of people on HH have met lots of the big names




Nick14
January 30, 2019 at 07:14:00 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on January 30 2019 at 06:27:59 PM

Cars nowadays are too high tech, you can't really work on them like the good ole days. Young folks are interested in the newest smartphone, not this year's model of Chevies or Fords..... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/12/131217-four-theories-why-teens-drive-less-today/



Wasnt able to open up your article for some reason. I still consider myself relatively young (33yrs old) and grew up during the tech boom generation. My friends and I have always loved racing but really never had time to be a "gearhead" per say. We always had school and if you played any sports/extra curriculars that takes almost all your free time. We would watch races on tv but that was the extent. It was hammered into our heads in highschool to go to college, not learn a trade/skill like automotive so that takes more time.

My dad was always a gearhead and still talks in motor lingo that I don't understand. We were fixing my first car one day and he told me there was no point in me even learning how to do anything because so much of them was computer based.  Plus cars today are not made based on performance or speed for the most part. They are made based on fuel economy, longevity, ride, and ease of up-keep. Between mortgages, student loans, car payments, kids, medical bills for the kids, bills for the house, etc the days of a lot of young people supping up cars as a hobby are about over. You have to get started around 7-8 in micros and work on race specific cars to get that

 



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
January 31, 2019 at 06:22:55 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on January 30 2019 at 05:33:16 PM

The paid fans in grandstands will determine the future of racing.  Ce-Mar in Cedar Rapis had 4,000-6,000 fans at weekly shows in the late 40,s.  There is not a weekly race track in Iowa that would come close to this.  Knoxville would probably be closest in state but not near that amount of people.  Hawkeye Downs had a sprint car race in 1946 that drew 25,000 fans.  We must also remember the population was only 1/2 as many people then as today.   People just do not care that much about automobiles today as they did years ago.  They want to go from point A to B and that is all they care about.  This reflects on the future of racing .



Twice as many people and today people have 100x the entertainment options as they did in 1940.  I remember our State Fair grandstand packed with close to 20,000 people for afternoon races on week days in the late 50's and early 60's.  We don't see that kind of attendance anymore with the exception of the biggest multi day events in dirt track racing.

Young people aren't interested in cars like they used to be.  I have taken a couple of the grandkids to the races and they watch one heat race before they're bored with the whole thing.  I don't know where this sport is going but it's been a helluva ride to get to this point.


Stan Meissner

rolldog
MyWebsite
January 31, 2019 at 09:28:16 AM
Joined: 08/01/2013
Posts: 431
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I don't think so unless the economy goes completely south and something springs up during the recovery.

I think it would be fun to see a bunch of these cars racing.  The Yamaha R1DT.  I know they race these in CA but haven't seen them yet in the Midwest other than for testing at Eagle.

 




revjimk
January 31, 2019 at 04:14:28 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on January 30 2019 at 07:14:00 PM

Wasnt able to open up your article for some reason. I still consider myself relatively young (33yrs old) and grew up during the tech boom generation. My friends and I have always loved racing but really never had time to be a "gearhead" per say. We always had school and if you played any sports/extra curriculars that takes almost all your free time. We would watch races on tv but that was the extent. It was hammered into our heads in highschool to go to college, not learn a trade/skill like automotive so that takes more time.

My dad was always a gearhead and still talks in motor lingo that I don't understand. We were fixing my first car one day and he told me there was no point in me even learning how to do anything because so much of them was computer based.  Plus cars today are not made based on performance or speed for the most part. They are made based on fuel economy, longevity, ride, and ease of up-keep. Between mortgages, student loans, car payments, kids, medical bills for the kids, bills for the house, etc the days of a lot of young people supping up cars as a hobby are about over. You have to get started around 7-8 in micros and work on race specific cars to get that

 



Thanks for your input. I'm only a half ass mechanic myself, used to work on my Ford Econoline vans with help of good ole Chilton's book. Took my Focus to a shop after 100,000 miles, they said it was time to replace the fuel filter, they wanted $300... "Screw dat", sez me... it used to be a scewdriver & 2 clamps, 5 minute clean job. Now its in the damn gas tank. Same with air filter, even easier, one wingnut. Now its some hi tech aparatus, , it says right on the unit to take it to the shop....

Which is one more reason I'm becoming more of a curmudgeon every day....



Evel7
January 31, 2019 at 06:36:12 PM
Joined: 07/13/2016
Posts: 13
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Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on January 30 2019 at 07:14:00 PM

Wasnt able to open up your article for some reason. I still consider myself relatively young (33yrs old) and grew up during the tech boom generation. My friends and I have always loved racing but really never had time to be a "gearhead" per say. We always had school and if you played any sports/extra curriculars that takes almost all your free time. We would watch races on tv but that was the extent. It was hammered into our heads in highschool to go to college, not learn a trade/skill like automotive so that takes more time.

My dad was always a gearhead and still talks in motor lingo that I don't understand. We were fixing my first car one day and he told me there was no point in me even learning how to do anything because so much of them was computer based.  Plus cars today are not made based on performance or speed for the most part. They are made based on fuel economy, longevity, ride, and ease of up-keep. Between mortgages, student loans, car payments, kids, medical bills for the kids, bills for the house, etc the days of a lot of young people supping up cars as a hobby are about over. You have to get started around 7-8 in micros and work on race specific cars to get that

 



Grew up racing in Ia, dad raced late models but I always loved sprint cars (raced late models for last 30+years, did run sprints a couple of times in early 90's). I have worked at an auto tech school for last 16 years, big change in the generations I can tell you. Kids today grow up differently and I have witnessed a change in students who want to go racing; unfortunately a decline. When I started I would bring the late model to the school-kids loved it.  Today we have a very nice sprint car sitting in our lab and we barely hear a peep out of the students about it. All we can do is keep trying to 'educate' the youth and hopefully we can get the interest level back up, support your local tracks and take a 'young' friend along for the experience!



Paintboss
MyWebsite
February 01, 2019 at 03:22:20 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 2098
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Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on January 30 2019 at 01:32:38 PM

The funny thing is that today people blast the 305's because they're too slow.  Then they go over and check out the museum and admire drivers from the 50's and 60's who never turned a lap as fast as today's 305's in their entire careers.  We thought those non wing, cageless cars of the 60's with the injector stacks sticking out of the hood were the most awesome cars on the planet.  It's a good thing we liked them and weren't speed snobs or Sprint Car racing wouldn't be around today.  wink



Not the same though...  The guys from the 50's & 60's had no where near the technology. Steering, Shocks, Cockpit ergonomics ect... And the footprint that todays tires put on the ground is probably 2,3 maybe 4 times as much as a car from those generations. Personally I dont care as long as it is a sprint car. When I first started going to Knoxville the 360 class was just getting started, As I remember they had smaller wings, possibly steel blocks, I don't believe they were allowed fuel injection and yes they were noticeably slower but hell I still enjoyed the hell out of them just like today I enjoy watching the 305 class.  If it's a sprint car race and I am there.. Life is good.




revjimk
February 02, 2019 at 03:41:15 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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This message was edited on February 02, 2019 at 03:47:28 PM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: Evel7 on January 31 2019 at 06:36:12 PM

Grew up racing in Ia, dad raced late models but I always loved sprint cars (raced late models for last 30+years, did run sprints a couple of times in early 90's). I have worked at an auto tech school for last 16 years, big change in the generations I can tell you. Kids today grow up differently and I have witnessed a change in students who want to go racing; unfortunately a decline. When I started I would bring the late model to the school-kids loved it.  Today we have a very nice sprint car sitting in our lab and we barely hear a peep out of the students about it. All we can do is keep trying to 'educate' the youth and hopefully we can get the interest level back up, support your local tracks and take a 'young' friend along for the experience!



I took an auto shop class in 1988 at Colorado Mountain College in Leadville, Co,.  (10,125 ft. altitude) & they had a Ford SOHC monster V-8 there (but no innards) WHY didn't i try to buy it???! I'm sure I could find guts for it somewhere, probably standard Ford parts? 

Along those lines, I lived in rural Virginny in the early 60s, Model A coupes were still pretty common on the road, driven by farmers.... damn I wish i had bought one.... could you imagine that SOHC engine in one of those???? wink



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
February 03, 2019 at 11:23:36 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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This message was edited on February 03, 2019 at 11:24:31 AM by StanM

I'll probably catch hell from hard core Sprint Car fans but down in New Zealand they have an open wheel class they call Super Stocks.  They run the old fiberglass Model A bodies and they're built for contact which makes their races look like a blast to watch.  Seeing as most weekly tracks run several support classes that don't pay a huge purse I'd like to see something like these in the US.  I know they'd probably turn off some of the hard core speed fanatics but our local tracks get packed to the rafters for things like School Bus night.  Young people today aren't motorheads like my generation was in the 60's but they love classes that provide a dose of mayhem.

Thinking back on my youth and the first races I went to around 1960 we were there for the old Modified coupes of that era but things like Jalopy enduros and figure eight I recall being a hoot to watch.  The limited non-wing or Traditioinal Sprints and the B Modifieds both had quick success but I don't see any classes on the horizon poised to make that big of a splash in the future.

New Zealand Super Stocks


Stan Meissner



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