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Topic: WOO qualifying change, about time! Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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blazer00
June 11, 2015 at 09:08:27 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Recent press release from the WoO addresses what the fans have been questioning for a long time. How to make qualifying more fair for the entire line up of drivers, and bring racing back into the program. The WoO answer.....split the field after the pill draw. Release goes on to explain it in it's entirety. Maybe now there will be action in the heat races and feature event, rather than domination from the first and second rows in every race, as it has been with rare exceptions.




dsc1600
June 11, 2015 at 09:15:45 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4385
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All it does is make it fairer for the guys qualifying in the back of the draw in a big field. Good move.



spot1
June 11, 2015 at 09:36:50 PM
Joined: 12/14/2004
Posts: 622
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World of Outlaws has been doing this with the late model series for a couple of years already. About time it filtered over to the sprint cars.




sc lm race fan
June 12, 2015 at 05:57:36 AM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
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Time for group qualifying. If 8 cars per heat put 4 cars on track run 4 laps, put other 4 cars on track run 4 laps. Top time out of this group is fast timer and starts 4th in heat one, etc. This is only 8 laps not 16 laps.

ASCS could use this this doesn't use the track up or time. And it's better for the fans it's like racing all the time. Better for the compeditors if you are a faster driver.



saphead
June 12, 2015 at 07:01:03 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1167
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I have a concern. Will it take away from Johnny Gibson being able to say 'QUICK TIME!!!' ??? 

 

 



Jacobs59
June 12, 2015 at 07:28:52 AM
Joined: 06/09/2009
Posts: 43
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Sc lm race fan, your right on the laps for the fans to watch but not when it comes down to track wear, because it's not 8 laps, and your right it's not 16 laps but it is in fact 32 laps ran on the track compare to 16 laps with single car qualifying and that's the reality of group qualifying, it kills tracks!!!




vande77
June 12, 2015 at 07:38:24 AM
Joined: 01/20/2005
Posts: 2079
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A better solution might be better track prep.  Maybe the tracks wouldn't take rubber 1/2 way through the main event either.

 



staggerman
June 12, 2015 at 02:21:04 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 638
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The thing not mentioned is this change is only when there is 32 or more cars otherwise the format is the same as before.

 

World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series Announces New Two-Flight Qualifying Program

Qualifying format will be in effect for 32-car-or-more fields

CONCORD, N.C. - June 11, 2015 - The World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series announced today a new two-flight qualifying format for when there are 32 or more cars competing at an event. The long-planned update comes after months of consultation with team owners and competitors.

"We are excited to be able to finally implement this in the series," said World of Outlaws Sprint Car Series Director Carlton Reimers. "We believe this format will help to minimize the effect of a changing race track on qualifying and will create a more equitable playing field for all of our competitors."

The two-flight qualifying will be in place when the series has 32 or more cars; the procedure will otherwise remain the same as it has been all season. Under the new format, the field of cars will be split into two flights based on the pill draw. The first half of the draw will comprise Flight A and the second half of the draw Flight B. Flight A will qualify, then Flight B, which will create two qualifying results.

Heats 1 and 2 will be lined up by times from Flight A, with four cars inverted, and the top five finishers transfer to the A-Main. Heats 3 and 4 will be from Flight B. Heat winners and the top two fastest qualifiers in each Flight that made the transfer go to the Dash. The fastest car of the night will still be awarded quick time and one championship point.

During Dash inversion draw for all events, drivers will see the removal of the 8 pill, leaving the 0, 4 and 6.

Two Last Chance Showdown lineups will be based on corresponding qualifying Flights and Heats.

This update goes into effect immediately.

"As a series we are constantly evaluating how to improve the racing experience for our competitors and fans," Reimers said. "Implementing the new two-flight procedure now allows us to improve the experience for everyone involved immediately. We look forward to seeing the improvements in place this weekend."

Additionally, at 49 or more cars, the series will add two Heat races for a total of six. At 61 or more cars, a second C-Main will be added.

This two-flight qualifying accompanies a 20-or-fewer cars format that was introduced earlier this season. Under that format, pill draw and qualifying proceed as normal. The entire field is then divided into two Heat races with the top-four inverted. The winners of those Heat races and the next 2 fastest qualifiers that finish in the top six transfer to the Dash. The remaining cars are split into two qualifiers lined up by Heat finish. The winner and next two fastest qualifiers that finish in the top six, from the qualifier races make up the remaining Dash field.



oswald
June 12, 2015 at 04:29:28 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1990
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jacobs59 on June 12 2015 at 07:28:52 AM

Sc lm race fan, your right on the laps for the fans to watch but not when it comes down to track wear, because it's not 8 laps, and your right it's not 16 laps but it is in fact 32 laps ran on the track compare to 16 laps with single car qualifying and that's the reality of group qualifying, it kills tracks!!!




They group qualify 3 classes of sprint cars every week at Knoxville. 305s get 5 or 6 laps 360s & 410s get 2 laps. And thats with 33 - 42 410s, usually 25 - 28 360s & 24 - 28 305s. And it does NOT kill the race track. Great track for the A mains every night this season. What kills race tracks is poor prep... nothing else!




dsc1600
June 12, 2015 at 06:10:57 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4385
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on June 12 2015 at 04:29:28 PM


They group qualify 3 classes of sprint cars every week at Knoxville. 305s get 5 or 6 laps 360s & 410s get 2 laps. And thats with 33 - 42 410s, usually 25 - 28 360s & 24 - 28 305s. And it does NOT kill the race track. Great track for the A mains every night this season. What kills race tracks is poor prep... nothing else!



Most tracks don't have the wonderful black iowa dirt Knoxvile has. I agree most tracks don't know good track prep but that's not an overnight solution. This helps fix a common issue for big fields and it will be interesting to see how it turns out.



laudarevsonhunt
June 12, 2015 at 06:18:24 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 1116
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It means Johnny will say quick time more often, like the first car in 2nd flight!



sc lm race fan
June 12, 2015 at 09:11:13 PM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
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So now the Outlaws have a procedure for 0-to 20 cars, 21 to 31 cars, 32 to 48 cars, 49 to 61 cars and 61 plus cars.

0 to 20 cars- up to 2 Ten car heats.

21 to 31 cars - up to 3 Ten car heats. If 31 cars (1) eleven car heat and (2) ten car heats

32 to 48 cars - (2)  2 sets of heats off of pill draw for qualiying. Lower half goes to heats 1 and 2 Upper half go to heats 3 and 4. Heats are from 8 cars to twelve cars. Dash is 8 cars heat winners plus the 2 timed qualifiers out of each lower and higher of the qualifying pill draw. Invert 4 take five to the main. So it still 8 cars from dash and 12 other cars from the heats giving 20 cars. Plus 2 cars from each b main aka last chance showdown. Making the 24 car field.

Now what has not been explained was how the main is lined up. Heats 1 and 2 inside rows heat 3 and 4 outside rows or off of over all time like it was before? If it is off of time like before you have not fixed any problems, cars that qualify first are still in the front of the main starting 9th to 20th.

49 to 61 cars -  add to more heats for a total of 6. 49 cars (1) 9 car heat and (5) 8 car heats to 61 cars (1) eleven car heat and 5 ten car heats.

61 plus cars- add another c main




dirtdevil
June 12, 2015 at 09:53:45 PM
Joined: 09/30/2005
Posts: 1387
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on June 12 2015 at 04:29:28 PM


They group qualify 3 classes of sprint cars every week at Knoxville. 305s get 5 or 6 laps 360s & 410s get 2 laps. And thats with 33 - 42 410s, usually 25 - 28 360s & 24 - 28 305s. And it does NOT kill the race track. Great track for the A mains every night this season. What kills race tracks is poor prep... nothing else!




I wish it were that EZ, granted Knoxville has some of the best clay and surface i have ever seen, withstanding August heat and still retaining moisture is incredible, granted,  much of the clay on the surface was imported from the Des Moines river,that track and fans are truely blessed  our local track has tried anything and everything inbetween, manuer,wood chips,sawdust, new clay, overwater, countinious water ect ect ect, it just doesnt seem to make a major differance, the only thing i have remoltly seen a differance on was a calcium additive that made a differance, but it was expensive to continue to use .  mIn the event of qualifying fans would be very unappreciative of the continued effort to make a perfect track, low lines vs high lines can make a major differance in track times regardless , with the WoO competitiors 1/10 off of 1st position to 15th is pretty tight tolerances , the other observation i have of knoxville is cars are less likely to skid corners on entry and exit, as well as make rapid change in speeds, its a large sweeping track that witholds alot of speed, cars that stay strait and dont break traction go to the front , my point being on tighter tracks when 100 laps or better are turned between heat races and features the track is more likely to get used up more rapid , again places like Knoxvill have two things going for them vs a track that takes alot of driver input to manipulate the car into reacting to the best traction and where it is avalible , put 10 to 15 cars searching for that same piece of property th track will change sooner, obviously the intresting notes is in the tale of the tires, we see total differant messages on our tires at the three tracks we frequently race at , one is very abbrasive, almost like driving on hard packed sandpaper, the other is close to a  lake  the tires look like a sand rail almost like small granuels of sand are on the tires  (strangly it has alot of slip the tires wear slowly there), the third the tires guain heat and alot of it , it cooks over the outer part of the tire and looks glossy when cooled down after a cycle , all in all  track prep is very difficult to negotiate hands down Knox has got it all, to get another track to react like thier surface is very difficult to achieve.



sc lm race fan
June 12, 2015 at 10:26:32 PM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
Reply

Found it on woosprints.com

2015 RACE FORMATS

20 CARS OR LESS:

  • Draw and Qualify as normal
  • Divide field into two (2) Heats lined up by times - invert 4 – winners and the 2 fastest qualifiers that finish in the top 6 go to the Dash.
  • Remaining cars go into two (2) Qualifiers lined up by their respective Heat finishes – no inversion – winners and the 2 fastest qualifiers that finish in the top 6 go to the Dash.
  • Provisional Dash lined up by qualifying times followed by an inversion draw of 0, 4 or 6.
  • Dash finish determines the first 4 rows of the Feature lineup.  The rest of the field will line up by qualifying times behind the Dash.
  • The WoO Tire Rule is waived for the Dash.

21 TO 31 CARS:

  • Draw and Qualify as normal
  • Three Heats lined up by times – invert 4 – top 6 finishers transfer to the Feature.
  • Heat winners and the fastest 5 qualifiers that made the transfer go to the Dash.
  • Provisional Dash will line up by qualifying times followed by an inversion pill draw of 0, 4 or 6.
  • Dash finish determines the first 4 rows of the Feature lineup.  Remaining transfer cars line up by qualifying times behind the Dash. 
  • Cars not making the transfer line up by qualifying times in the LCS.  Top 6 finishers transfer to the Feature – top 4 hold their times behind the Dash cars – 5th and 6th tag the rear of the field.

32 TO 48 CARS:

  • Draw as normal
  • Divide draw into two (2) Flights with the first half of the draw comprising Flight A and the second half of the draw comprising Flight B.  If there is an odd number of cars, using 41 as an example, Flight A would have 20 cars and Flight B would have 21 cars.
  • Flight A qualifies then Flight B qualifies which creates a Flight A qualifying finish and a Flight B qualifying finish.
  • Heats 1 and 2 will line up by times from Flight A – invert 4 – top 5 finishers transfer to the Feature.
  • Heat winners and the top 2 fastest qualifiers that made the transfer go to the Dash.
  • Repeat above for Flight B.
  • Provisional Dash will line up by times with Flight A on the inside lane and Flight B on the outside. An inversion pill of 0, 4 or 6 will be drawn to complete the lineup.
  • Dash finish determines the first 4 rows of the Feature lineup. 
  • The remaining transfer cars hold their times and line up behind the Dash cars with Flight A cars on the inside and Flight B cars on the outside. 
  • Cars not making the transfer line up by qualifying times in two (2) LCS races with Flight A cars in LCS 1 and Flight B cars in LCS 2.  The top 2 finishers of each LSC will transfer to the Feature and hold their times in their respective Flight behind the Dash cars.

 

49 TO 60 CARS:

  • Same format as above except there will be 6 Heats - invert 3 – top 3 finishers transfer to the Feature.  Heat winners and top 2 qualifiers from each Flight that make the transfer will comprise a 10 car Dash.  There will be one C Main – Flight A cars to the inside, Flight B cars to the outside - top two finishers transfer with the winner tagging LCS 1 and second tagging LCS 2.

 

61 TO 65 CARS:

  • Same format as above except there will be two C Mains.  First C Main will be Flight A cars, second C Main will be Flight B cars – one transfer from each Flight and tag the rear of their respective LCS flight.

 



Michael 98A
June 13, 2015 at 08:22:42 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 569
Reply

Yep. Sweeping change with immediate results...

1st Heat won from Pole.

2nd Heat won from 2nd.

3rd Heat won from Pole.

4th Heat won from 2nd.

Dash won from 2nd. 

B Feature won from Pole. 

Thankfully, to save the event, Stewart started 4th and won over the Pole Sitter. 

Bless the WoO to identify this and make immediate and event altering format change, as I picked Kerry for the win. Silly me. 

 

 

 

 

 




SprintFan16
MyWebsite
June 13, 2015 at 08:58:18 AM
Joined: 05/03/2007
Posts: 1612
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael 98A on June 13 2015 at 08:22:42 AM

Yep. Sweeping change with immediate results...

1st Heat won from Pole.

2nd Heat won from 2nd.

3rd Heat won from Pole.

4th Heat won from 2nd.

Dash won from 2nd. 

B Feature won from Pole. 

Thankfully, to save the event, Stewart started 4th and won over the Pole Sitter. 

Bless the WoO to identify this and make immediate and event altering format change, as I picked Kerry for the win. Silly me. 

 

 

 

 

 



Sounded like the track was way heavy because of, well, you know... rain all week. 

Great observation Mike. You sure nailed it.



Speedbump
June 13, 2015 at 09:03:37 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1461
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I don't see how this makes it any better.   All it does is reduces the chances that a really good car gets a bad draw and has to start behind slower cars.    

So now there will be even LESS passing?     



dsc1600
June 13, 2015 at 09:17:52 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4385
Reply

Again, this is not designed to make the heats "better". It's to make the format fairer for those in the back of a time trial order when the track changes significantly from the beginning to the end of time trials. 




Speedbump
June 13, 2015 at 09:24:29 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1461
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I don't care about fair.....I am interested in being entertained.   

Putting faster cars behind slower cars for whatever reason is entertaining.     

2 cases in point from last weekend....Schatz at I80 and McCarl in Knoxville.    Both extremely entertaining watching a faster car slice through traffic.    



Rip Off
June 13, 2015 at 10:31:00 AM
Joined: 12/12/2009
Posts: 53
Reply

I agree that it will actually make the feature and the heats less entertaining. The new format essentially eliminates any driver ever getting a" bad draw" and it will practically guarantee that the heavy hitters will start in the front half of the feature. It will be a rarity to see someone like Schatz to ever have to run the B or even start from deep in the field.

I cannot blame the WoO though. They are essentially doing what is best for their drivers.





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