Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

bobcat the sad truth is many tracks no longer have an ambulance or personnel, that would be an admission of possible risk and liability .my son inlaw is a emt he never likes to go to events were his services would be needed .to much risk to his family from greedy familys looking for a scape goat and a big check and thats to sad .the only thing left for us racers is what we do for ourselfs and each other and always check out the tracks we race at .race safe

There is a far greater risk for negligence than a worry about admitting liability so I don't buy that excuse on ambulance coverage. It more likely boils down to the expense of having the ambulance on site. Sadly, money often rules over safety. How else could you explain the utter unpreparedness that exists at most tracks? Is a single worker at any OKC-area track dressed in a fire suit? Is there five minutes of fire or even general safety training for these people?

Any of us who have visited our local tracks know that it is only a matter of time until something terrible happens. Unfortunately, that time came at I-44 last weekend. This incident will serve no purpose but to alter a young girl's life if some dramatic changes aren't made. That's what it took at Knoxville and now they are the talk of the industry.

Unfortunately, even now it's too late to be pushing for track safety. The drivers, their families and their parents, if minors, should be asking these questions well BEFORE ever strapping themselves or a loved one into a race car. Like I said, all of us who have attended races around here have had this thought run through our minds more than once and we've dismissed it against the hope that the inevitable will never occur.

And if its is a money issue, charge me another buck or two at the gate. I'd rather pay for equipment and training in advance than contribute to a relief fund.

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."

I Disagree It Is Never to Late For Track Safety. We Learn Some Thing every time We Go To The Track Kenny.

The Deeper The Better. GO DEEP!

Remember when Larry Hill had Sooner Rescue? My recollection is that they were a fire and rescue team from Tinker. Every time cars were on the track there was a guy in full silver suit ready to go into the fire if necessary. Those guys were pros.

I know it was expensive and it would be prohibitive but can't we get a little closer than we are now?

I bought a pull cord fire suppression system for my car along with the fire extinguisher that sits beside me. I think the extra cost of having better fire protection is money well spent. If you are interested you can go to firecharger.com and look at the system. It is user refillable and comes with a really good kit. I like the system and it was pretty easy to install and comes with three foam nozzles.

I also would agree with the extra dollar at the gate to have safety crews on-site. The track I run at has fire and ambulance crews on-site so I don't worry about it to much.

#85 Limited Mod!! THAT JUST HAPPENED!!!

Jd you and I talked the other day about this and payin like you do a registration fee for you car at the begenning of the year ....lets also pay a saftey fee if everycar pays a once a year fee then that should be more than enough to pay some firefighters to show up every friday and help out with saftey ...

Just thought I would throw that one out there

winners dont cry when they lose , they go back to the 
drawing board and come back for round 2 !

twice I typed some stuff up - but I can only offer thoughts that are just common sense.

I'm just a fan that can only see the obvious things. Drivers and others that have been involved with racing much longer than I - all know more of the best ways to address it. The worst part as I see it - is most sit idle on this issue while KNOWING full well the dangers that exist with fire response time. Like the last 2 weeks - how many more times will that happen before everyone acts?

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

I don't ever like to hear about anyone getting burned, but I always look in a mirror first. Am I doing everything I can to prevent the problem?

Shouldn't some of this discussion be about prevention of fire injuries? How many of us are wearing multiple layer suits instead of the minimum single layer? How about underwear? Socks? Gloves? Balaclava (head sock)?

How about the fuel system? Aircraft quality lines and fittings or rubber lines and Corbin clamps? Fuel bladders? Dry break valves? I'm an advocate of prevention instead of treatment. I hate to agree with Mr. Neighbors, but crewmen, double check those fuel lines.

I don't know anything about these new fire suppression systems, but I know most racers whine about having to add any weight. Bud, rest his soul, used to require all cars to carry a bottle fire extinguisher that was mounted in reach of the driver. Unfortunately, those ABC dry chemical kitchen extinguishers everybody strapped to a rollbar were useless after a race or two because the vibration from racing would pack the powder so tight, it couldn't be discharged. Anyway, these alcohol fires can't be put out with anything but lots and lots of water.

I also find it interesting how quickly everyone forgets about Doug Wolfgang's fire in Kansas City. Similar circumstances. Doug got knocked out, fuel everywhere, not enough proper fire fighting equipment. Couldn't get Doug out of the car because of the heat, tried to move the car away from the flaming puddle of fuel. Doug lost a finger tip because he cut the fingertips off of his driving gloves for easier access to tearoffs. It seems like his feet got burned up because the soles of his driving shoes burned off too. But the equipment he was using properly did its job. The worst was his lungs because of the length of time he was in the fire.

But when Doug sued the track and the WoO and the makers of several pieces of equipment on the car that failed in the fire, the racing community ostracised him for years. They blamed him for his predicament and inferred that to be critical of the sanctioning body, track or equipment manufacturers was treasonous.

Tracks have a responsibility to be as safe and well equipped as possible, but don't let that $20 - 25 pit pass serve as blind faith that they are taking care of you to your expectations.

Personal responsibility for me or my driver's safety is first with me. If the track you're racing at isn't equipped, staffed or trained to your liking, don't race there.

I was talking to Dan and Rickey today and they said that C-Ray (sp) has a water truck that he pulls over to a burning car and just unloads on it. That would be fine with me.

I was at Hutch, and so was Larry Hill.

Why do you think Mr. Hill instituted all of the Fire Safety rules that are for the most part non-existent today.

I was reading in Speedway Illustrated about some of the procedures of other tracks. One track in the northeast, I believe Lebanon Valley Speedway, brings the water truck up beside the burning wreckage and unloads through the side discharge nozzle. They just dump tons of water onto the fire,and it works. They also have a truck with a 1500 gallon water tank that always has fire retardant mixed in it.

State Fair Speedway has the tools to do something similar. The big watertruck that is always sitting in the infield, in addition to the spray bar and rear low pressure fan discharge, has 2 high pressure front nozzles that can be used to douse burning wreckage. If anybody at the speedway has the safety of the drivers as a priority, that water truck should be full of water at all times and it should be pointed in a direction that would allow it to go anywhere at a moment's notice, and there should be someone near it at all times. This would be something good to do in the interim.

For the future, we should look into changing the safety requirements. I think that every driver should have at least a two layer suit w/ fire retardant undergarments or a three layer suit, and a flame retardant head sock.

I was always under the impression that water and fuel don't mix since the fuel will float on the water. So this moronic idea of dumping water onto a fuel fire is absurd unless there is a foam mixed in with the proper applicator.

If I was a race car driver and was on fire, I don't think I'd want to wait on a lumbering water truck for my rescue. By the time someone got in it, fired it up, got it through the gears and finally reached my car, it would probably be too late. I'd prefer something more mobile, manned by staff in fire retardant gear who could not only extinguish the fire, but reach in and help me get out.

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."

I may not have stated it clearly enough -- it's not too late to train and improve, but it's too late in the history of most race tracks to be having this debate. These questions should have been put to rest years ago. And I am sure you do learn something each time out, yet that's not formal training. On the job experience is wonderful, should be complemented by an actual course one would think.

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."

Spraying a burning car with water is a good idea if the car is burning methanol. Not so good with gas.

Helper monkey is right on. The track has a responsibility to fight fires but the racer is responsible to make his car as safe as possible. Fire suppression systems are great but many of the fires I've seen were caused by faulty stuff that should have been fixed or replaced.

Uncle A, I wasn't at Hutch and I'm glad. I agree that Larry was influenced by that. Who wouldn't have been? The sad fact is that subjects like this are only raised after the fact.

Amen, Mossman. My point is that it WAS raised and addressed long ago. Too bad it has slipped in importance.

Just in case we're needing a reminder ...

http://www.racingfromthepast.com/hutchnationals74firelap1index45.html

"I'd pay $15 to watch a sprint car sit still."

Moronic huh? Man you sure do have a way with people. I bet you are loved by all that you know...

I wasn't saying that everything should be halted in terms of fire safety to wait for a water truck to get there. What I'm saying is that if it gets down to it a water truck would work. That little girl was in there for 2 minutes, that is PLENTY of time for a water truck to get across the track.

Well, this type of discussion , brings to light the real danger in this sport of ours. AUTO RACING. FIRE SAFETY IS EVERYONE RESPONSIBILITY. But I think you all are missing the real point.

I think the real problem in burning is how to stop the flow of fuel. Isn't that why Factories (they crash alot) can not run electrical or pressurised systems? So how can one turn off the fuel supplies after or during a crash of a sprint, pro stock or what ever.? Even if you had the water truck running and with someone in it ready to roll, it would take it at least 30 second plus to get the car. That's a very long time to burn.

My suggestion is to build a respond vehicle for the SFS but be owned by the ORA. Make a mini water truck(your know a dual pick-up)and first aid vehicle all in one. I' m quite sure there is enough of us that we can build one? And I know there got to be people (come on who works a dealership you guys I know get in junk duals in at some time or another) out here who will donate what we need. And we can pass the helmet for the cash we need. I thinks maybe we should help and be part of the solution.

If I recall correctly, the track operator in the Speedway Illustrated article about fire fighting advocated lots and lots of water for gasoline fires too.

If a driver was trapped, he believed that large amounts of water cooled the area the driver was in, even though the fire continued. I think once the driver was out, then they used other techniques to extinguish the fire.

Anybody else remember the article?

You guys make a lot of good points ,however..Doug Wolfgang....need I say more.....we learned our lesson30 years ago ....this young lady should have been protected ..We all let her down! The safest track I've raced is Perris Ca.They have a dedicated fire emergency truck ,with suited up fireman ready to go at all times,from wheel packing to till the last car shuts down.At every drivers meeting there should be a review of where the saftey stations are,on fire sometimes you can drive to help.