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Topic: DirTVision: one month = 28 days Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Hooper31
October 27, 2020 at 09:31:57 AM
Joined: 09/03/2017
Posts: 364
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They advertise all over their website that the cost is $39 per month. There is one note in the details about their 28 day policy. 
 

They bill us every 28 days. Apparently my next bill would have been on the 5th costing me another full $39 to watch the last two races to end the year. Further, you have to email them to stop the service. 
 

I think this a weak business plan and customers will see this as greedy and disrespectful. Am I alone here? 




from a sponsor
October 27, 2020 at 03:25:31 PM
Joined: 05/19/2005
Posts: 430
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If they are billing on a 28 day cycle you are basically paying for 13 months a year...

 



puckzx6
October 27, 2020 at 03:29:41 PM
Joined: 09/09/2010
Posts: 354
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I do not subscribe to Dirtvision nor disagree with you in principle. I do have a question though, how would you define a month? Is it 31 days or 30 (Feb is only 28-29 days). Would it be a calander period, such as the time from 0000hrs 10/1 to 10/31 1159hrs (many subscriprtions do, and will pro-rate for a portion of the month, and some, one day of the month equals the whole month). What was your expectation? When did your subscription begin and what did you believe would be the end date? I promise, I'm not being snarky or trying to stir the pot. Just looking at things from another viewpoint. They have to have an established period. They choose 28 days (ask most people how many weeks in a month and the quick answer is 4 weeks which = 28 days). Having not read their subscription details, I will fully trust you that it was only the fine print (which would not suprise me) . Unfortunately, the devil is in the details. 




MSPN
October 27, 2020 at 05:19:46 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 3943
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Hooper31 on October 27 2020 at 09:31:57 AM

They advertise all over their website that the cost is $39 per month. There is one note in the details about their 28 day policy. 
 

They bill us every 28 days. Apparently my next bill would have been on the 5th costing me another full $39 to watch the last two races to end the year. Further, you have to email them to stop the service. 
 

I think this a weak business plan and customers will see this as greedy and disrespectful. Am I alone here? 



In the good 'ol days we paid more than $20 a race and people didn't complain a whole lot.  We are now spoiled in getting 8 - 12 races a month for that money, which is a helluva deal!

These last 2 races are significant due to the points race, aren't they?  To fans of those invoved this is likely the most important weekend of the season, agreed?

 



Hooper31
October 28, 2020 at 12:19:12 AM
Joined: 09/03/2017
Posts: 364
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: MSPN on October 27 2020 at 05:19:46 PM

In the good 'ol days we paid more than $20 a race and people didn't complain a whole lot.  We are now spoiled in getting 8 - 12 races a month for that money, which is a helluva deal!

These last 2 races are significant due to the points race, aren't they?  To fans of those invoved this is likely the most important weekend of the season, agreed?

 



365/28 = 13.03

Yes, they are billing you 13 months a year. How is that right?

I'm not going to be able to watch the final two races as I have other plans. I was going to cancel my subscription for this year regardless, otherwise I might not have noticed. Are you attempting to tell me that if I don't prioritize these final two races as really important than I'm not a real fan? Does that mean I should keep quiet and not point this out? I guess, not, I don't agree. 

The price isn't that bad. Realistically, I would pay more per month, but this just seems slimey and unnecessary. It's the sort of customer service that drives people away. 



Hooper31
October 28, 2020 at 12:23:39 AM
Joined: 09/03/2017
Posts: 364
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: puckzx6 on October 27 2020 at 03:29:41 PM

I do not subscribe to Dirtvision nor disagree with you in principle. I do have a question though, how would you define a month? Is it 31 days or 30 (Feb is only 28-29 days). Would it be a calander period, such as the time from 0000hrs 10/1 to 10/31 1159hrs (many subscriprtions do, and will pro-rate for a portion of the month, and some, one day of the month equals the whole month). What was your expectation? When did your subscription begin and what did you believe would be the end date? I promise, I'm not being snarky or trying to stir the pot. Just looking at things from another viewpoint. They have to have an established period. They choose 28 days (ask most people how many weeks in a month and the quick answer is 4 weeks which = 28 days). Having not read their subscription details, I will fully trust you that it was only the fine print (which would not suprise me) . Unfortunately, the devil is in the details. 



What's my expectation? I pay all the bills for my household. Most of them are monthly. All of them come on the same day each month so the concept of how many days changes for all of them.

 

Phone, Garbage, Water and Sewer, HOA, Electricity, Natural Gas, Sirius radio, Fubo TV, Netflix, Hulu-Disney-ESPN+. All are once a month. None of them use the 28 day thing. Is it different in your household?

 

 




onporch
October 28, 2020 at 06:30:26 AM
Joined: 02/12/2017
Posts: 368
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Hooper31 on October 27 2020 at 09:31:57 AM

They advertise all over their website that the cost is $39 per month. There is one note in the details about their 28 day policy. 
 

They bill us every 28 days. Apparently my next bill would have been on the 5th costing me another full $39 to watch the last two races to end the year. Further, you have to email them to stop the service. 
 

I think this a weak business plan and customers will see this as greedy and disrespectful. Am I alone here? 



I have often considered that they should call it DIRTY VISION because of all their dirty tricks.

Another Dirty Trick is their “cancellation” policy.   If your subscription automatically renewed on October 14 and you cancel it today, October 28 they will NOT give you a 14 day refund.        Your subscription will stay active for the full “month” even though you attempted to cancel it half way through the term.      EVERY other service I have cancelled has stopped service immediately and given me a refund.   Not DirtyVision....

So make sure you cancel BEFORE the new auto renewal date to avoid paying for another full month.   

I appreciate that they offer the choice and the service and I typically choose to subscribe for two  "28 day periods" in July and August.      I also appreciate the Free Audio.     But I wish they would be more honest to their customers....  

 

 



onporch
October 28, 2020 at 06:46:05 AM
Joined: 02/12/2017
Posts: 368
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Reply to:
Posted By: from a sponsor on October 27 2020 at 03:25:31 PM

If they are billing on a 28 day cycle you are basically paying for 13 months a year...

 



 

Lets name that 13th month  "Dirty Airy" 

 

 



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
October 28, 2020 at 07:33:25 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
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Perhaps they are referring to Ferbruary as their month of choice.

I am cautious with my money, some would say cheap, but a day or two only amounts to a few bucks and if they billed it as $45 it would still be a deal.  I'm not sure what my limit is as far as how much I could pay before I couldn't do it anymore.  I will leave that up to my wife, she pays the bills.  When she says "did you know that dirt vision charge on your visa went up?" that will be my queue that the end of the run is nigh.  Until that day I will keep my mouth shut and enjoy the races.


Stan Meissner


digs
October 28, 2020 at 07:46:57 AM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 298
Reply

T&C on Dirt Vision website:

We automatically bill your Payment Method every 28 days (a “Monthly Period&rdquowink. If you change your Payment Method, this could result in changing the billing cycle. You acknowledge that you will be billed $39 for each 28-day billing cycle and you authorize us to charge your Payment Method for the corresponding amount. If DIRTVision changes the subscription fee or other charges for your subscription, we will give you advance notice of these changes by email.

Not a very creative way to do business, might as well sell it by the year and be done with it.

I'll simply wait for the following day to watch the highlights via U tube or similar.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
October 28, 2020 at 07:58:52 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
This message was edited on October 28, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM by StanM

PS, I'm the guy who was in a rush to prepare for a trip and was juggling two streaming services and sent my cancel to the other one instead of Dirtvision.  The Dirtvision charges kept coming, my wife kept paying the bill and I didn't know I had it from September through December.   It was around Christmas we happened to be standing in the kitchen and my wife had picked up the mail and she says "do you know you are being charged by this racing channel every month?"  By then I had racked up a pretty hefty total and they only would refund the current month so I ended up begging my wife for forgiveness for a $156 net loss that I had nothing to show for.  Last summer I had it for four months and I noticed that now they send an email every month aka 28 days notifying customers that their Fast Pass is active and being charged for another month.  If anyone forgot they had an open subscription and was reminded by an email you can probably thank my fiasco as part of the reason they're sending out the monthly notifications.  Moral of the story, take your time when preparing for a European vacation and take a more active role in reviewing your Visa statement if your wife pays the bills.

I had intended to not bring this up again but I think it's appropriate here.  Due to my experience caused by my own oversight I could still be holding a grudge because they refused to budge on a refund.  People on a retirement income feel the sting of a $156 blunder more than the average working person so it was a bigger deal for me than a lot of people who read and commented on my posts at the time.

Anyways, I am not bringing this up to add fuel to the fire.  I'm saying that my loss was more than the difference between 28 and 30 days and I am at peace with Dirtvision and used the service all summer again this year.  I have seen other bills on a 28 day cycle so it's no big deal to me.  Money issues aside they did a fantastic job with their coverage this year and I really appreciate that they are now sending out billing reminders when Fast Pass is due to renew.


Stan Meissner

dsc1600
October 28, 2020 at 08:20:08 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
Reply

No one is forcing you to keep it over the offseason.

I certainly cancel it after the World FInals and start up again for Florida. From Feb to Nov I will have watched nearly every WoO sprint race (53 events, usually 70-75) plus weekly shows at the Grove, Attica and Knoxville, plus WoO LMs, plus a week of NY Super Dirt Series Mods (which will be included next year). In those 9 months, I spent $350 for all that content. I just think that's an insane deal, given that's probably one plane flight to get to Knoxville, or Eldora from where I am.

I realize FLo is cheaper and has a ton of content as well, but you have to realize Flo is backed by FloSports, which just got a ton of funding ($47m) from various investors.

https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/flosports-discovery-wwe-funding-1203231799/

People think, because the WoO is the biggest brand in dirt racing, their streaming service is the biggest one, but that is far from the case.




JP50138
October 28, 2020 at 09:31:27 AM
Joined: 04/25/2016
Posts: 41
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Hooper31 on October 28 2020 at 12:23:39 AM

What's my expectation? I pay all the bills for my household. Most of them are monthly. All of them come on the same day each month so the concept of how many days changes for all of them.

 

Phone, Garbage, Water and Sewer, HOA, Electricity, Natural Gas, Sirius radio, Fubo TV, Netflix, Hulu-Disney-ESPN+. All are once a month. None of them use the 28 day thing. Is it different in your household?

 

 



DirTVision is great in so many ways.  The coverage is good, the price is reasonable, etc. but the $39 per month is deceitful at the very least, as it is absolutely false advertising.  There are 12 months in the year, yet they will bill you 13 times over the course of the year at $39 per month.  I subscribed this year, knowing all of this, and it was still worth it to me, but this fact doesn't sit well with me.  Is it enough to keep me from subscribing next year, no probably not.  But it is enough for me to cancel right after the World Finals and not sign up until the season really gets going.  The net result is DirTVision will actually make less revenue from me, than if they truly charged for only 12 months.  



Nick14
October 28, 2020 at 10:44:00 AM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
Reply

Must be the end of the racing season as typically this is one of the first things people start complaining about around November. Outside of this past year where I kept my Dirtvision subscription the whole year to see some of the Aussy races in January and last December, I only make 10 payments to Dirtvision. Reason being is I normally subscribe the first day of Volusia and then send an email after the last race of the World Finals. Using today's pricing of $39/mo (or 28days or every 4wks) that comes to $390 total.

For me personally I have watched all but 13 WoO sprintcar races this season due to either actually being at the WoO race myself or at another racing event (and actually I watched 2 features on my phone in the stands but didn't count them). After Charlotte, that mean I will have watched 41 of the 54 possible races on Dirtvision which means I paid a total of $9.51/race which is not a bad deal. But wait, there's more as the infomercials say. Typically there are around 70+ races in a regular year and as a low estimate I probably watch 75% of those for the same $390 which would bring the total to around $7.25. And that's not all, again as the infomercials say since a lot of those times I was able to flip to the races at Attica, Williams Grove, as well as Knoxville & the Late Models if I was bored. Most likely that would bring the total to under $5/race for all of the content I was able to view which is a pretty good deal in my opinion.

Now while some may think this billing thing is decitful even though a lot of people do not subscribe to the platform for the entire year, but then again maybe they do after the past couple of years with people's complaints, I shudder to think how some feel about all of the other decitful things other companies do that makes this innocent in the grand scheme of things. I guess its dealing with wireless and cable companies in the past, don't get me started on gym memberships, or possibly its the years spent working in various service industries where I have learned the concept of "customer is always right" is complete B.S that makes me a little cynical on topics like this. As we learned in Business Law classes, their is a responsibility on the customer to understand what they are buying, all is not on the provider although they can help with rentention by having more responsibility. No different then the milions of coupons or in store ads that show 50% off in big bold lettering and then in tiny font says with purchase of 1 like item, or when your subscription runs out on your cable and they increase it $40/mo and you have to go through that song and dance.

Finally, after looking through my billing charges from Dirtvision, I did notice that they did NOT charge me for 2 months during Covid (I think March & April or April & May). I will have to go back and see but I do not recall cancelling my subscription during that time so I do not know if others are in the same boat or not, but I do not think I cancelled which would mean they did not charge me for those two months. That would kind of eliminate any and all decitfulness of a company to me but even if they didn't I would rank as a 1 on a scale of 1-10 versus all of the other things that happen on a daily basis in this world, meaning I do not give a crap. Subscribe in Feb, cancel after World Finals and you will be fine. For some people if it wasn't this there would be something else they would be complaining about, face it, you will not be 100% satisfied.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
October 28, 2020 at 10:58:17 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
This message was edited on October 28, 2020 at 11:11:31 AM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on October 28 2020 at 08:20:08 AM

No one is forcing you to keep it over the offseason.

I certainly cancel it after the World FInals and start up again for Florida. From Feb to Nov I will have watched nearly every WoO sprint race (53 events, usually 70-75) plus weekly shows at the Grove, Attica and Knoxville, plus WoO LMs, plus a week of NY Super Dirt Series Mods (which will be included next year). In those 9 months, I spent $350 for all that content. I just think that's an insane deal, given that's probably one plane flight to get to Knoxville, or Eldora from where I am.

I realize FLo is cheaper and has a ton of content as well, but you have to realize Flo is backed by FloSports, which just got a ton of funding ($47m) from various investors.

https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/flosports-discovery-wwe-funding-1203231799/

People think, because the WoO is the biggest brand in dirt racing, their streaming service is the biggest one, but that is far from the case.



Just a quick comment about the Flo and DV combination.  I got Floracing last February and I typically get Dirtvision to follow the Knoxville season and the Outlaw swing through the upper Midwest and keep it active for the summer.  I have commented on the challenge of driving late at night as we get older and the cost of driving and getting a room along with admission and meals.  With that in mind a did a little breakdown to get some more accurate numbers. 

Dirtvision and Floracing together are more than just an opportunity to watch racing on TV.  One or the other would be enough to keep a person busy, both at the same time provides more racing than a person could possibly ever hope to watch.  If I average out the cost of Flo after taxes it brings the total up around $160 so using that number for the sake of discussion let's say $13.33 per month average.  365 days in a year divided by 28 days = 13.05714286 billing cycles per year based on the 28 days or $44.44 per month if a person had Dirtvision for the whole year.  So dividing $44.44 by twelve months produced a total of $3.70 per month between a 28 day and 30 day billing cycle.

I would challenge anyone who is upset about the cost of Dirtvision to attend one race at their nearest track for $44.44.  While we're at it I challenge them to find a track that sells a burger and beer for as low as $3.70. 

Having both Floracing and Dirtvision for about six months according to my numbers I would have paid an extra $21.22 during that six month period.  I lost track of how many races I watched during that time but would easily be 100+.  The most I went to when I was doing racing photography was around 45 to put the difficulty for most of us to attend as many races as we can watch on streaming racing channels. 

Yeah, I was dumb and made a big blunder trying to cancel Dirtvision and I'd like to have that money back but once it's spent it's gone and I ain't taking it with me.  The 28 day cycle could have been 30 but no big deal when the difference is only $3.70 and a beer in the bar costs more than that.  To put it in perspective I am transitioning from a multi effects guitar pedal and purchasing individual effects pedals to replace those functions so I am willing to spend when necessary.  In the past few months I have easily spent $500 on pedals for my music hobby.  Likewise I wouldn't think twice about spending $500 if I got an offer to make a trip to Knoxville for a two day show.  While the 28 days could have been 30 it's still a bargain when a person can combine the two and have more races than they have time to watch with both streaming service for a total I calculate to come to $57.77 per month while juggling both services. 

Just for the helluvit I'll compare a trip to Jackson Motorplex to a month of PPV using both services.  I live 210 miles from Jackson and I'm two miles from I35 so pretty much freeway all the way, I35 to I90.  210 x 2 comes to 420 + throw in 25 miscellaneous and lets round it off to 450.  Gas would come to around $45, I would only go for at least a two-day show so let's say $70 per night for a room x 2 nights = $140.  Now let's figure $30 per day for food and drink so that's $60 and what are tickets, $40 or so?  Let's use $40 for the sake of discussion so I'm looking at $80 admission.  Total for the trip would come in at around $325 for two nights in Jackson.  My POS van probably wouldn't make it but I won't figure in towing and repairs but I won't make the trip until I replace it. 

So the bottom line is I could make the trip for $325 on a wing and a prayer hoping that my van won't break down or I can watch from home for $57.77 per month and maybe catch a race or two closer to home.  Some people are 210 miles from their closest Sprint track so there is that too.  Does it even count as going to a race when the classes are Hornets, Pure Stocks, Street Stocks, Super Stocks, B Modifieds and Modifieds as the top class?  I don't think so and I'd rather stay home and watch the Outlaws or All Stars. 

Forgive me for the long post, my career was in accounting.  wink

PS, correction on my calculations on the difference between 28 and 30 days.  The difference comes to $5.44, I cruched the wrong numbers.  That's still not a huge amount and is not a deal breaker.  What can I say, I'm retired and now I only crunch numbers when absolutely neccessary.


Stan Meissner


Murphy
October 28, 2020 at 11:05:57 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply

      Maybe it would be a good thing if all the people who complain about Dirtvision just cancell it. Use that extra money to buy footlong hotdogs that aren't 12" long.



Gridiron Racer
October 28, 2020 at 11:15:34 AM
Joined: 04/27/2016
Posts: 45
Reply

Only negative thing about Dirtvision is they give nothing to the tracks. The tracks get no funding out of it and actually lose because of course it's more convenient to stay at home and watch. Dirtvision will need to work out something better with the tracks like Flo does if they want to have future events to watch. 



larsonfan
October 28, 2020 at 12:42:23 PM
Joined: 03/24/2013
Posts: 1445
Reply

I don't have DV, but do have Flo. Is it true that even after paying the $350 for DV, you still have to pay extra for the Nationals? 




Nick14
October 28, 2020 at 12:59:03 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: larsonfan on October 28 2020 at 12:42:23 PM

I don't have DV, but do have Flo. Is it true that even after paying the $350 for DV, you still have to pay extra for the Nationals? 



Below is what is on Dirtvisions site but I had thought that these events were not extra anymore. I know this year I was not charged any extra for any special events such as the Cedar Lake races, Jackson Nationals,etc. The reason I first purchased DV was to watch the Kings Royal the year my son was running a fever. When I purchased it I was able to watch the rest of the month for the same price and just kept the subscription until after the World Finals. When I signed back up the following Feb I remember getting this message but had thought they changed their policy. I did not pay too much attention or minded it really as I attend the Kings Royal and Knoxville Nationals each year so there is not need for an exta subscription even if one is needed.

 



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
October 28, 2020 at 01:35:08 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5548
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Gridiron Racer on October 28 2020 at 11:15:34 AM

Only negative thing about Dirtvision is they give nothing to the tracks. The tracks get no funding out of it and actually lose because of course it's more convenient to stay at home and watch. Dirtvision will need to work out something better with the tracks like Flo does if they want to have future events to watch. 



I don't see how them keeping their prices at a level where a retired guy like me can afford to have it for the summer is a negative.  The way I look at it in this day and age of internet and streaming television is any sport that requires attendance to be a fan or charge more for a streaming package than Netflix or my Hulu channel package has painted itself into a corner.  The hard core fans will ignore common sense and juggle their budgets to have it regardless of the cost.  I have a limit how much I want to pay and that limit is basically that I can continue to justify the expense.  

The ironic thing is how quick people are to advocate higher prices out of concern for the tracks.  They are businesses and as such I have the same concern for their bottom line as they do for mine which is pretty much zero.  I don't agnize because I have a low house payment or that the electric bill should be more.  Dirt tracks set their prices and make the decision whether or not to enter into an agreement to make their races available on PPV.  They need to make that decision and evaluate the impact on the gate.  I do know that even the tracks around here that  ever host the top classes are available for streaming on some smaller more local services.  Pretty much every track is doing it at prices comparable to Dirtvision.  It's up to them to change that if it's not working and up to me to decide if their pricing fits my budget.  In a way that genie has already been let out of the magic lamp and fans expect affordable streaming packages.  Trying to reel that back in and charge price comparable to those at the gate aren't going to be well received.

And what about advertising?  Does PPV and knowing that their commercials and/or signage at the tracks result in increased sponsor dollars?  I don't see their bottom line so I don't know.

Dirt track racing has inherent delays that can get so annoying at home that I have been known to turn the channel when a show is moving along at a snails pace.  I would never pay to get in a race and do that but have given in to the frustration when watching from home.  Dirt races are never going to be perfectly efficlient so they will always be a tough thing to televise.  The streaming business model depends on freelance videographers and not 18 wheeler production trailers.  I don't think they can go back to their earliest business model of purchasing single races at gate prices.  I don't would be forced to go back to text updates and YouTube clips the next morning if they did that.

I worry about #1 first and I don't wish bad on the tracks but to them I am just another $35 plus concessions.  Aside from that they don't like much of anything else about me and probably wish I would go away.


Stan Meissner



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