Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

With CBS sports broadcasting the next several events live, I assume that there is large broadcasting fee being paid to WOO for the TV rights.  Do the race teams get additional monies because of this?  I remember when they broadcast live events in the early days of WOO, teams were given TV money in addition to the regular purse money.

Yup, It was only a matter of time till someone opened this up......... Popcorn ready......

I tell it like I see it.

OK. I will be the first to bite.   I would be willing to bet several large adult beverages that there is no large TV money for the upcoming events.    I would go futher to say that if any money changed hands that it was the WOO given money to CBS.   As has been said many times before, the costs for a live TV production is very large.   The demand for Sprint cars on TV is very low.   There simply isn't a reason for CBS to give the WOO a lot of money.   With the exception of MAV TV which could be called Lucas Oil TV, who is showing a lot of sprint cars on TV?

      I don't remember any WoO races paying race teams TV appearance money , but I've only followed them since around 1978. At this point in time, I doubt that the WoO is getting anything considered "large" for broadcasting rights. In fact, I'd bet the number is closer to $1. WoO and their teams could use the exposure that TV brings. 

There is 0% chance the WoO is paying for that time, it makes no sense. CBS sports absolutely has incentive and reason to give the WoO money, there is very little live sports going on. CBS sports pays for PBR to air on their network. My guess is it might be that CBS pays for the production and the WoO will get a slice of the ad revenue. It likely won't be a windfall or anything, but the WoO will come out ahead.

I do remember 1979ish a WoO show I think in February?? at Ascot on Wide World of Sports. They had an interview with Doug Wolfgang. I think Keith Jackson? did the announcing. If I remember right Keith also did the Hulman Classic from Terre Haute on ABC?

Also remember USAC midgets from Reading on NBC Sportsworld in May of that same year.

Are you saying racers got TV money for these races or for the TNN WoO races much later?

Same question about the live Thursday night races on ESPN in the late 1980s.

If someone knows more about this I would be curious if ABC and NBC handed everybody a $50 bill or if it was worthwhile amount.

The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan

This year is so different than any other. Network TV has no sports but reruns and that is getting old.

They are screaming for any fresh content.

Racing in certain states is a huge draw rite now. Im sure dollars are available and flying around the room.

Question is who's table does it fall on.

I tell it like I see it.

Here's a question I have.

With all these outfits doing PPV live streams of events are the tracks being compensated well??

Based on TV models and the way it works for non-mainstream sports on networks, I doubt CBS is paying WoO anything.  The ad rates for this type of programming are not exactly huge.  WoO will be lucky if CBS is even kicking in funding towards the production.

WoO could  have been on TV any time they wanted in the last 10 years, however, the way the model works for non mainstream sports is that you have had to pay, and were basically buying a spot in the schedule.  CBS may not be "charging" them right now due to the lack of live sports on TV, but I sincerely doubt the model has changed so much that the WoO is going to get much out of this outside of exposure for their series, drivers, and sponsors.  There is a reason that only the documentary is going to be on CBS and  will be aired in the middle of the day, while the live racing will be on the lesser channel that is carried in far fewer homes, at night.

I would have to assume CBS is at least paying the production costs of the documentary and announcers for the live broadcasts or giving the WoO free air time.

Another question is how much DirtVision revenue goes to the teams. I know they are spending money to better the product but I wonder if any of the streaming money is shared with the teams and tracks.

When I watch any other sport the last thing I'm thinking about is the financial arrangements and salaries.  I'm the same way about dirt track racing, the winners share and TV contracts mean nothing to me because I won't be getting a cent of it and my costs to view whether on TV or live are the same.

What I do get out of it all is that if Sprint Car racing can be presented on TV on a channel that most people have access to it's bound to make some new fans.  Hard core fans might be willing to PPV at a higher per month cost than a sixty channel streaming package but the casual auto enthusiast doesn't have that connection with Sprint Cars and isn't going to pay that much.  The old TNN and Diamond P broadcasts as well as Thursday Night Thunder before ESPN went big time made new fans, a high buck specialty PPV service sstisfys life long fans but isn't going to reach a larger audience.  

I could care less what their deal is with CBS because I don't have a need to know but I do know that the air time on a network station is long overdue.  We have a ton of reasonably priced PPV for people like myself but it could be argued that we lost ground since those early broadcasts were on TNN and ESPN.  Personally I'd like to see the populariy of dirt track racing reach that level agsin where I could watch it on my regular channel lineup.  Until that happens we are still a niche sport and this live CBS deal is a step in the right direction.

Stan Meissner

From one of the panel of speakers that I listened to last year at the Nationals I get the impression they do not but from what they were saying they do see the benefit in it. One of them said when streaming/dirtvision came out about 10years ago, at first they were angry about the idea of their race being watched by people not coming to their track at all (old school promoting philosophy that in order to see it you have to travel and buy a ticket), and then not getting any compensation from that either. However, he did follow up that he does see the benefit and how it has helped the sport and individual tracks overall as more people have traveled from out of state. Another said he has seen attendance numbers rise since the streaming services have evolved on all shows and felt it was because the exposure that dirtvision (that was the main one they discussed) has provided to the sport.

From a personal standpoint, I can say that it is because of dirtvision/streaming as to why I have & continue to try to plan to going to other tracks in other states. Prior to that I was satisfied with seeing All Star/Outlaw races here in Ohio as we have great tracks. Actually being able to watch all 4 nights of the Knoxville Nationals a couple years is what go me excited & wanting to actually attend. Prior to that it was tape delayed on speed and you only got maybe the C, B, and A. Seeing the racing at places like Knoxville, Pevely, River Cities, Wisconsin tracks, Indiana, PA has had me making a list of tracks to attend. Just going to Ohio speedweek races throughout the past 3-4years I see more and more out of state license plates at the races. My dad was shockes last year seeing plates from Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, and California at the track. "They drove all this way to come here for a sprint car race?" My dad is still new to the sprint car thing so he's learning.

PS,.case in point.  I am a dirt track Sprint Car, Midget and Late Model fan.  My interest in Sprint Cars is enough to motivate me to pay for two PPV services.  I have never attended drag races, Indy Car of F1 events but I do watch them on TV when I stumble across one.  I wouldn't pay to watch those other forms of racing but I have watched enough NHRA that it has a place on my bucket list and the same could be said of Indy cars.  Watching those free live shows of other forms of racing planted a seed and I may have the ne to that NHRA race finally if this had been a normal summer.  The same scenario is true when fans of other forms of racing and car enthusiasts see Sprint Cars on TV.  Sprint Car racing is awesome but the lack of tv broadcasts on network channels tends to keep it hidden from the larger population.  

Anyways, the exposure is always good.and should benefit the sport.

Stan Meissner

Totally agree, it's made the sport way more national. DirtVision and now Flo has been a huge boost to the sport.

That is an interesting point you made about tracks resisting PPV.  Dirt track racing has some exceptional fans for another reason not often mentioned.  Who besides dirt track fans are even willing to follow a sport where they have to drive long distances and pay for travel and lodging every weekend?  I know every sport has super fans but the average baseball fan (in a normal year) usually has some options nearby and can be home in their own bed at the end of the day.  They have access to the games on TV which keeps their interest alive between attending games.  No sport is ever going to survive in this day and age if the only way to follow it is to drive three hours each way out past the cornfields to some small town every weekend.  Step one is PPV, step two,.and we reached this step years ago but regressed, is to present live events easily accessable to the general public on channels that are part of most cable, satellite and streaming channel packages.  The big hurdle is for the sport to become popular enough on mainstream TV to attract advertisers.  That piece is easier said than done but right now it's one of the only sports out there and that could be the case for a while longer.

Stan Meissner

You are correct, today's day and age attendance/gate revenue is a small drip in the revenue/profit bucket for most sports. The tv money and adversting is the biggest source of income for them and each team in professional sports is located in basically a heavily populated areas. Even small market team located in places like Cincinnati Ohio (Football & Baseball) are in a county of close to 1M people. Compare that to where Eldora Speedway is located which is one of the most famous tracks in the world, Darke County only has ~51,000 people living in it. Add to that its a niche sport then you do need people traveling and you need the sport to get exposure. The ppv such as Dirtvision & Flo has definately helped the sport the past number of years.

It will be interesting to see how consumers purchasing styles go as far as how they consume television. A number of friends and myself do not have cable, just stream everything. It's cheaper and we find we can watch more things about our interests. It will be interesting to see in the next decade who advertisers use streaming services to market things. The next step that might be benefitial is to try to maybe integrate Dirtvision on one of the many streaming service options as a channel. Many drivers such as David Gravel have their own youtube channels now and they could put that content on there to gain exposure.

The final thing that people may need to think about is not just the revenue, but the cost as well. In order to give money to tracks there has to be profit, not just revenue. I am sure all of the equipment, tools, travel, videographers, and above all people cost quite a few pennies. You can't just find some local yocal with a camcorder after all to video these things. While I am sure WRG is making money on Dirtvision, I don't think they are Scrooge McDuck from Ducktales swimming in their money vault (millennial reference) because of it. If anything it gives them a little more sustainability to pay out a pointfund and attract sponsors to the sport like Drydene, Morton & NOS to help the drivers that choose to compete. Yes I know they are probably making money on it but, if you split up the profit among all the tracks in a given year and the number of events each individual track, the amount of money would be a small fraction for everyone. If it was just revenue then WRG wouldn't make anything and thus wouldn't continue to do it.