Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

What's everyone's opinion on fence vs no fence?  I see pros and cons to each, but I think all tracks should have a fence, especially places as big as Park Jefferson. Could you imagine a wreck like Sweet's at the end of the Park Jefferson back stretch?  I've never been to Park Jefferson, but it seems most tracks with no fence that I have been to have something (i.e. track equipment) close enough to the racing surface that it could conceivably get hit by a flipping car. 

I was thinking the opposite. Hitting a fence is one hell of an impact. Rolling out into a field like Park Jefferson allows all the energy to dissipate. Obviously you need lots of open space....

If there is a Fence that fence should be made of Safety Barrier.  Which BTW was made for Flemington Speedway, all the R&D for the NASCRAP Safety Barrier was done right here in NJ at Flemington Fair Speedway.  The only bad thing abiut that was it was a necessary after the Fastest 5/8 mile dirt track in the country was paved.  The speeds that were achieved after paving were way to dangerous.  Quite a few Cars and Drivers were badly messed up.  So a local company  came up with the idea and made the Safety Barrier blocks.  These IMO should be mandatory at all Race tracks in the Country. Drivers Lives should be first and foremost and the Barriers Save Lives 

Pretty sure the OP's point was it's better to hit a fence than a track grader or other equipment that is parked dangerously close to the racing surface.   Even if it's not dangerously close, a sprint car can cover a large amount of distance in a hurry.   If they can flip a long ways and just mow down some corn then that's probably OK.    As far as any individual track making a necessary change for safety, we pretty much know it won't happen until someone dies.   

Thats a tough call.  As others said if the car has all day to roll and flip without hitting anything that's one thing.  It's entirely another if there is something to hit.  The last two drivers we've lost weren't lost because they hit a wall.  Greg hit an opening and Jason hit the billboard/top of the wall.  Sharp corners and abupt angles is usually what kills, not the wall itself.  

Agreed. If there's something to hit, bad. Open space, good

I've been to a few tracks that don't have walls surrounding either one or both corners, or they have a "run off" type area with another retaining wall. I haven't seen any track equipment near those areas at the tracks I've been too but it would probably be cause for concern.

The sudden stoppage or force of impact into a wall or catch fence could cause a fatal injury in of itself just with basic physics. Hitting an object such as a truck, tractor, grader, hauler, a beam, etc then not only are you dealing with force of impact, but force of impact directly to the head/neck/chest. That could be worst in a sense. The car can absorb a lot of the energy & force but the human body can only absorb so much. It's all really a catch 22 in most cases. There will probably always be case of if there was a fence a driver wouldn't have been injured & vice versa. Arguments can be made for & against both

The first night I watched Park Jefferson they moved a water truck that was sitting way outside turn 3.  My son commemnted "no one was going to hit that"  The next night a car flipped out pretty much to that spot.  Other than that, which they corrected I did not notice any object that would get hit.

From a fan perspective, I sure did enjoy watching them rip the top and ocassionaly go over and keep it going. (Zeb Wiess comes to mind) 

Leffler, Johnson, Hodnett, Clausen, King,Young, Gobrect, Hutton.......All hit the FENCE.  Flipping doesn't hurt much, it's the sudden stop or being thrown back into other cars paths that hurts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Clausen and Gobrecht hit by other cars after they had crashed?   And if I remember right, Hodnett hit the end of an unprotected wall.   Big difference between a wall and fence.   

Hutton = Poorly designed fence

Clauson was running the top at Belleville (Ks) and got into a wreck coming out of four after bouncing off the wall/cushion.    It was a vicous set of flips along the wall.   However, his car did then go down the track and was hit by another car who was still going at a very rate of speed.   At vicous as the flips were, the contact with the other car was much worse.   

Track equipment parked behind the backstretch may appear closer on television. 

Stan Meissner

Correct -- Gobrecht was also hit by another car.

Ask Danny Lasoski.

Johnson would still be here if there was a fence.  He cleared a short wall and hit a series of billboards on steel posts.  

A well designed fencing system is the best answer (key being well designed & installed).  The more space a car can cover while flipping the greater chance of hitting something in the open space.  Harder to maintain the space clear at all times.  But both have their downfalls.  

The biggest issue at a lot of tracks is the wall openings (similar to where Sweet almost went Friday night).  In most cases those could be "engineered out either by changing the traffic flow (to have all cars go out an opening that is at the end of a corner & not end of straight) or at least stagger the wall so the opening is "set back" a ways from the track surface & there is not an exposed opening.  Pevely has a setup similar to this with the opening in turn 1.  The wall before the opening is flush along track but the opening is set back a bit so the cars have to swing wide to pull into the exit chute.  

Different track, different situation.  On a side note I shot photos at the Owatonna half mile many times before they closed it and know the promoter of the race you're referring to.  Also met the owner of Park Jefferson through Justin Zoch, that had to be twenty years ago before he ever promoted a race.  Small world when I get to thinking about this past weekend

Stan Meissner

Didn't he go over the fence/wall/rail and then hit the bulldozer?

Was thinking this was debated here about two years ago now after a tradgedy and fencing was prefered. Which led to several tracks adding fencing. Though those tracks had concrete walls only I would say properly built wall and fence to keep cars inside the track is better. Less risk of hitting anything or anyone outside the track. I cant see that there are that many tracks that would have the avaliable runoff space for no walls.

Now on the flipside if you take the Sweet crash with no walls he maybe just gets knock over the berm doesn't flip at all and rejoins the race loisng only a spot or two. What will likely continue to happen is tracks will continue to use what they have or don't have until something happens pointing out the need for a change.