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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: some rule changes for next year Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Limowreck
August 22, 2018 at 09:42:55 PM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
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http://www.woosprint.com/news/latest-news/5197-sprint-car-industry-announces-rule-changes-for-2019-season

 

It doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is all the terrible race tracks they (and other series) go to, but it's a start.




RHC
August 22, 2018 at 11:10:42 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 443
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Posted By: Limowreck on August 22 2018 at 09:42:55 PM

http://www.woosprint.com/news/latest-news/5197-sprint-car-industry-announces-rule-changes-for-2019-season

 

It doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is all the terrible race tracks they (and other series) go to, but it's a start.



Since teams are spending $70,000 on engines, why not just get rid of the 410 cubic inch motor rule.

Have it "Run what you brung"



MoOpenwheel
August 23, 2018 at 07:18:26 AM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: RHC on August 22 2018 at 11:10:42 PM

Since teams are spending $70,000 on engines, why not just get rid of the 410 cubic inch motor rule.

Have it "Run what you brung"



What does that have to do with safety which is what the new rules and discussion is about.  




Murphy
August 23, 2018 at 07:29:11 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3261
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Can someone explain what a slip joint is in the context of a sprint car chassis please?



racefanigan
August 23, 2018 at 08:19:58 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 230
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Murphy, a slip joint is a section of tubing where one half of the tube is smaller than the other half, and the biger half slips over the smaller half, so one bar is made of two tubes. They are typically used on the cross bar that runs in front of the radiator between the lower frame rails. They are designed to give the car more flex. I have heard that some people have used slip joints in safety bars on the cage before too. They are pretty much outlawed in the lower ranks I believe, I remember a few years back they said you had to have slip joints bolted at husets, where you just drill a hole through them and run a bolt through so they can't move, however I am not sure with other places or series'.



trecraft
August 23, 2018 at 10:51:13 AM
Joined: 11/15/2008
Posts: 597
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Hopefully some day the council will begin to make some decisions to make the tracks safer.




Murphy
August 23, 2018 at 11:36:34 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3261
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Posted By: racefanigan on August 23 2018 at 08:19:58 AM

Murphy, a slip joint is a section of tubing where one half of the tube is smaller than the other half, and the biger half slips over the smaller half, so one bar is made of two tubes. They are typically used on the cross bar that runs in front of the radiator between the lower frame rails. They are designed to give the car more flex. I have heard that some people have used slip joints in safety bars on the cage before too. They are pretty much outlawed in the lower ranks I believe, I remember a few years back they said you had to have slip joints bolted at husets, where you just drill a hole through them and run a bolt through so they can't move, however I am not sure with other places or series'.



     Thanks for the explanation. I can't imagine why anyone would use a slip joint in any part of a rollcage.



brettco
August 23, 2018 at 01:27:01 PM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 517
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Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on August 23 2018 at 08:19:58 AM

Murphy, a slip joint is a section of tubing where one half of the tube is smaller than the other half, and the biger half slips over the smaller half, so one bar is made of two tubes. They are typically used on the cross bar that runs in front of the radiator between the lower frame rails. They are designed to give the car more flex. I have heard that some people have used slip joints in safety bars on the cage before too. They are pretty much outlawed in the lower ranks I believe, I remember a few years back they said you had to have slip joints bolted at husets, where you just drill a hole through them and run a bolt through so they can't move, however I am not sure with other places or series'.



is that what Jason Myers figured out as a advantage in his Kent xars?



linbob
August 23, 2018 at 03:06:42 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
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Posted By: brettco on August 23 2018 at 01:27:01 PM

is that what Jason Myers figured out as a advantage in his Kent xars?



The roll cage safety bars hace been available with sip joints.  The whole idea was the bar would not allow a front wheel get in drivers area.  All slip joints were outlawed at Knoxville the last 2 years.  They had to bolt them or weld rhem.  These bars without slip joint will help hold top cage up and prevent front tire getting  in cockpit.  These new rules are good.  I have seen 4 tail tanks depart from chassis this last year.  You do not want a tank to go over fence and hit people.  A tank with 15 gal alcohol weighs about 120 lbs.  The thing WOO should addres is total weight of car.  They should increase it to 1425 lbs.  The 2 new safety bars will add about 14 lbs to car.




chathamracefan1
August 23, 2018 at 03:39:35 PM
Joined: 08/03/2008
Posts: 241
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Will the steel rods on the left front be enough to strengthen that corner to lessen the foldover effect when the left front gets hit wrong?  Jason Johnson's wreck & Lynton Jeffrey's wreck at Knoxville were both similar in that it appeared the left front just collapsed from a relatively minor blow to the left front.  I don't know, just curious as a fan.    



Murphy
August 23, 2018 at 04:18:45 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3261
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Posted By: linbob on August 23 2018 at 03:06:42 PM

The roll cage safety bars hace been available with sip joints.  The whole idea was the bar would not allow a front wheel get in drivers area.  All slip joints were outlawed at Knoxville the last 2 years.  They had to bolt them or weld rhem.  These bars without slip joint will help hold top cage up and prevent front tire getting  in cockpit.  These new rules are good.  I have seen 4 tail tanks depart from chassis this last year.  You do not want a tank to go over fence and hit people.  A tank with 15 gal alcohol weighs about 120 lbs.  The thing WOO should addres is total weight of car.  They should increase it to 1425 lbs.  The 2 new safety bars will add about 14 lbs to car.



      Why in the world would you want slip joints in a rollcage safety bar? Yes, it would help to prevent a wheel getting into the cockpit, but why a slip joint there? It wouldn't be as strong, and it would weigh more than just a solid bar. Is there some advantage there, in that it doesn't unduely stiffen up the chassis or something along that line?



racefanigan
August 23, 2018 at 04:43:06 PM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 230
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Posted By: Murphy on August 23 2018 at 04:18:45 PM

      Why in the world would you want slip joints in a rollcage safety bar? Yes, it would help to prevent a wheel getting into the cockpit, but why a slip joint there? It wouldn't be as strong, and it would weigh more than just a solid bar. Is there some advantage there, in that it doesn't unduely stiffen up the chassis or something along that line?



Yes, they were designed to help the chassis flex like there was no bar there. Of course the cars didn't work completely like there was no bar there, that is why you see a lot of guys now days running no sfety bars, the cars flex better without them. Now that will all change.

I gotta admit, I know what I was getting into when I got into racing, and boy do I feel dumb. I got a XXX car used, one of their standard chainese cars, and cut the left safety bar and the right horizontal safety bar out to help the car flex. Its something you never really thought of but it does help. I think the new straight bars will be stronger than the current safety bars that are out there (bent ones). The way I see it, if something is coing to crush the cage, it has enough force that it is going to bend the bent safety bars at the spot they are bent at. In my head, itsl ike taking an aluminum radius rod that is straight, and trying to bend it, then take one that is already bent and try to bend it more. It is easier to bend a rod that is already bent, but much harder to start bending a straight rod.

Hopefully everything works out for the best with these new rules and they trickle down to the local level. People can say what they want about spending money and yadda yadda, but heres the thing, you do not need to buy a brand new car, you can retro fit an existing car, and if you cant come up with $300 to have a chassis shop, or repair shop, weld a couple bars in your car, and maybe a couple other things, then you should probably find another class to race because sprint cars are not for you.

 




Hawker
August 23, 2018 at 07:01:26 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 2809
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There, I fixed the tank thing... 


Member of this message board since 1997

RodinCanada
MyWebsite
August 23, 2018 at 07:24:24 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
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Making a team add 14lbs of pipe to the roll cage without increasing the minimum weight is giving them a license to remove 14lbs from any other location of choice.

The problem with racing is that there us no national board in control. I dont like boards and politics but in hockey for example there is Hockey Canada and whatever it is called in the USA. When thus group says you wear helmets everyone must. If you want to start a league and let players play without helmets there are major consequences such as the players are blacklisted from recognised leagues and you pretty much just signed up to never partake in recognized hockey again.

Trying to save money by eliminating the 410 class and forcing all those drivers to use 360s and use the 410 purses for the 360 cars sounds great until some individual promoter decides to host a 410 race cause everyone misses the big motors and everything you gained is lost. Same with safety issues. If you force too much there is nothing stopping a group of racers from going into the corn field and playing with all the stuff considered illegal and when people show up to watch cause its fast and fun you get a new sanctioning body that is easier on the rulebook.


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

kooks
August 23, 2018 at 07:49:26 PM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 702
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on August 23 2018 at 04:18:45 PM

      Why in the world would you want slip joints in a rollcage safety bar? Yes, it would help to prevent a wheel getting into the cockpit, but why a slip joint there? It wouldn't be as strong, and it would weigh more than just a solid bar. Is there some advantage there, in that it doesn't unduely stiffen up the chassis or something along that line?



Any piece of tubing anywhere on the car that goes side to side or angled across the car and is welded or bolted solid makes the car "stiffer".

Its the same reason that some racers (going back 20-30 years ago) didn't like "down tube" (the tubes that are angled from the top front of the roll cage down towards the front axle) chassis.      




wobbs
August 24, 2018 at 04:00:05 AM
Joined: 06/18/2008
Posts: 8
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Posted By: chathamracefan1 on August 23 2018 at 03:39:35 PM

Will the steel rods on the left front be enough to strengthen that corner to lessen the foldover effect when the left front gets hit wrong?  Jason Johnson's wreck & Lynton Jeffrey's wreck at Knoxville were both similar in that it appeared the left front just collapsed from a relatively minor blow to the left front.  I don't know, just curious as a fan.    



From the video's I saw of both those incidents neither of them had front ends collapse. In both instances the contact was enough to unsettle the the front of the car and turn it right. Lynton was squeezed into the wall and unfortunately JJ was knocked of course, both at high speeds. 



Keyboard Jockey
August 24, 2018 at 10:28:52 AM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 430
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A little bit of a back story when they tried to eliminate the slip tubes in the safety cage bars. Guys were wanting to add safety cages to the cars for safety but did not want to sacrafice preformance, coming up with the slip tube to allow the cars to still flex while adding more tubing and creating more room for the driver with saftey coverage. I cant remember if it was 2013 or 2014 when there was a knee jerk reaction saying this isnt safe to have slip tubes. So the outlaws made a rule to either pin/bolt all slip tubes or weld the slip tubes. However safety cages were not mandatory so the from the preformance side of things it was just better to not have safety cages. So for preformance sake guys were litterally cutting off their safety cages. I understand they want to improve safety and I am all for it, but for ever action there is an equal or opposite reaction. Same thing on the #5 WoO car this year, cage collapsed at volusia, "hey guys we need to make these things safer" everyone seemed on board. They added some support bars in the cockpit area andd the cars didn't work, so they litterally cut out the safety support bars out of the #5 car so it could be competitive again. Please dont take that as a dig to Barry Jackson, I commend him for trying something. 

 

There will be things now that have equal or opposite reactions to the rules that are going to be implimented. I'll bet the farm on it!



linbob
August 28, 2018 at 01:53:57 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
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Posted By: trecraft on August 23 2018 at 10:51:13 AM

Hopefully some day the council will begin to make some decisions to make the tracks safer.



The bad thing on rule is that  people without a clue on how to weld chomemoly will do it.  They will ruin the strength of chromoly and have crap welds.  There are a bunch of cars out there with the curved bars but they do not  have right measurements to follow rule.  I think if you want to run WOO you will have to follow new rules, but I can not see every track and class doing this.  WOO have had low car counts at some tracks, they might get lower now.  Also a junk frame should be welded up to see how hard it is to get hurt driver out of car.  WOO teams get new frames all of the time, so it would be no problem to them.  





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