HoseHeads.com | HoseHeads Classifieds | Racer's Auction
Home | Register | Contact | Verify Email | FAQ |
Blogs | Photo Gallery | Press Release | Results | HoseheadsClassifieds.com


Welcome Guest. Already registered? Please Login

 

Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead


Records per page
 
Topic: Track Distances? Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 2   of  21 replies
razorback1772
May 13, 2017 at 11:02:36 PM
Joined: 05/04/2017
Posts: 20
Reply

How are oval tracks measured for distance? I've heard its the circumference from the middle of the track, inside of track and outside of track. I used to go to manzanita alot in the late 90's early 2000's and the big track seemed like a "big" half miler. Does anyone know what Perris is advertised as?    




linbob
May 14, 2017 at 01:57:08 AM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1649
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: razorback1772 on May 13 2017 at 11:02:36 PM

How are oval tracks measured for distance? I've heard its the circumference from the middle of the track, inside of track and outside of track. I used to go to manzanita alot in the late 90's early 2000's and the big track seemed like a "big" half miler. Does anyone know what Perris is advertised as?    



What a track calls itself means nothing.  I do not know why they have never been measured in a uniform way.



Limowreck
May 14, 2017 at 10:51:56 AM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on May 14 2017 at 01:57:08 AM

What a track calls itself means nothing.  I do not know why they have never been measured in a uniform way.



I recall Johnny Gibson saying the WoO takes their mueasurements halfway between the berm and outside wall.




oswald
May 14, 2017 at 05:49:46 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

If the WoO measures tracks they would not refer to the Devils Bowl or Eldora as 1/2 miles.



Johnny Gibson
May 14, 2017 at 06:16:59 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 455
Reply

We've been measuring tracks via GPS for the last two years.  Official WoO measurements (for Oswald): Devils Bowl  .425,  Eldora  .437.  And yes,  measured at the mid point between the inside and outside edges of the racing surface.



oswald
May 14, 2017 at 06:44:51 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

And for Mr Gibson, the WoO website says the Devils Bowl and Eldora are high banked half mile ovals. So you don't even use your own "official" measurements on your website site! It also says Knoxville is a half mile but we all know it is a half mile around the berm. Guess the WoO just rounds off everything between a 4/10ths and 5/8th mile as a half mile.




STP
May 14, 2017 at 07:00:15 PM
Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 36
Reply

I am an old timer going on 70 years old.  I remember being told the AAA/USAC designation was two feet out from inside rail while NASCAR was two feet in from the outside rail.  That is why AAA/USAC had different measurements of a track size from NASCAR,  Some of the bigger tracks like Trenton and the dirt Langhorn track were classified as 1 mile by both organizations.  Flemington was a half mile then they mover the inside fence in about 3 feet and they called it a 5/8 mile but USAC still refered it as a half mile.  I know the track size was important back in the day because AAA/USAC awarded points based on two points per mile.  The winner of the Indy 500 got 1000 points while a winner of Hooser 100 only received 200 points and a winner of a 30 lap (15 miles) sprint car race at Williams Grove only received 30 points.  To me, Eldora was, is, and will always be a half mile track  



Chet C.
MyWebsite
May 14, 2017 at 08:02:14 PM
Joined: 08/02/2015
Posts: 71
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on May 14 2017 at 06:44:51 PM

And for Mr Gibson, the WoO website says the Devils Bowl and Eldora are high banked half mile ovals. So you don't even use your own "official" measurements on your website site! It also says Knoxville is a half mile but we all know it is a half mile around the berm. Guess the WoO just rounds off everything between a 4/10ths and 5/8th mile as a half mile.



But both .425 and .437 are bigger than 4/10.  Granted, they're smaller than .5 but how would you pick which to designate it?  If it's mostly run around the bottom, a 4/10 or if it's mostly a cushion track a 1/2?  Or perhaps a new designation, the coveted 9/20th?  

It has to be something the general fan can relate to because not everyone is as hard core as most of the folks on here.  I'd call both a small 1/2 myself before I'd call them a big 4/10 because the most common track sizes for a majority of the fans are 1/5, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2.  It's not too often you hear about a 4/10 track, which technically should be a 2/5.  

A 5/8, on the other hand, would measure .625, which means it would more than likely still be bigger than a .5 on the bottom, so a small 5/8 or a 5/8 are the terms I'd use there.  Regardless, any advertised size for a track is a ballpark figure anyway, especially when you're talking about tracks without walls, as they will actually migrate and grow over time.



PowerSlave
MyWebsite
May 14, 2017 at 08:02:38 PM
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 1088
Reply

I used to 3d model tracks as a hobby for sim-racing ect. ect... I measured a lot of tracks using Google Earth which seemed to be fairly acurate from what I could tell. There's a lot of tracks that are simply full of shit for a lack of better terms. A prime example is Husets, or whatever the hell its called these days. Their website in the mid 2000's claimed that the track was a 3/8 mile. I remember that they later changed it to saying that it was a 1/3 mile which is a little bit closer to the truth, but that's still an exageration. A lot of people like to bag on Eldora for the 1/2 mile claim, but they're far from being the only culprit.


...


GTigers55
May 14, 2017 at 09:02:49 PM
Joined: 02/13/2017
Posts: 420
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Chet C. on May 14 2017 at 08:02:14 PM

But both .425 and .437 are bigger than 4/10.  Granted, they're smaller than .5 but how would you pick which to designate it?  If it's mostly run around the bottom, a 4/10 or if it's mostly a cushion track a 1/2?  Or perhaps a new designation, the coveted 9/20th?  

It has to be something the general fan can relate to because not everyone is as hard core as most of the folks on here.  I'd call both a small 1/2 myself before I'd call them a big 4/10 because the most common track sizes for a majority of the fans are 1/5, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2.  It's not too often you hear about a 4/10 track, which technically should be a 2/5.  

A 5/8, on the other hand, would measure .625, which means it would more than likely still be bigger than a .5 on the bottom, so a small 5/8 or a 5/8 are the terms I'd use there.  Regardless, any advertised size for a track is a ballpark figure anyway, especially when you're talking about tracks without walls, as they will actually migrate and grow over time.



A lot of the tracks around me are 1/3 mile. I know of only one 1/5 mile track in Ohio that races full sized cars (not like karts/micro sprints etc).



Chet C.
MyWebsite
May 14, 2017 at 10:16:23 PM
Joined: 08/02/2015
Posts: 71
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: GTigers55 on May 14 2017 at 09:02:49 PM

A lot of the tracks around me are 1/3 mile. I know of only one 1/5 mile track in Ohio that races full sized cars (not like karts/micro sprints etc).



Ahh... 1/3 mile.  I haven't, to my recollection, encountered very many 1/3 miles in my adventures though.  Or I should say, not nearly as many 1/3s as I have the the others.  It's like 5/8;  I've been to a couple, but not a bunch.  Then again, the only OH track I've ever been to is Eldora.

And I'm with you on the 1/5 being primarily Kart/Micro, but that size is familiar to many due to the popularity of those divisions.



egras
May 14, 2017 at 10:37:15 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Chet C. on May 14 2017 at 08:02:14 PM

But both .425 and .437 are bigger than 4/10.  Granted, they're smaller than .5 but how would you pick which to designate it?  If it's mostly run around the bottom, a 4/10 or if it's mostly a cushion track a 1/2?  Or perhaps a new designation, the coveted 9/20th?  

It has to be something the general fan can relate to because not everyone is as hard core as most of the folks on here.  I'd call both a small 1/2 myself before I'd call them a big 4/10 because the most common track sizes for a majority of the fans are 1/5, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2.  It's not too often you hear about a 4/10 track, which technically should be a 2/5.  

A 5/8, on the other hand, would measure .625, which means it would more than likely still be bigger than a .5 on the bottom, so a small 5/8 or a 5/8 are the terms I'd use there.  Regardless, any advertised size for a track is a ballpark figure anyway, especially when you're talking about tracks without walls, as they will actually migrate and grow over time.



Gotta agree with you on this one.  Splitting hairs.  I guess they could label Eldora as a 7/16?  Would that make everyone feel better?  And if so, why?  

Knoxville---1/2 mile around the bottom and 5/8 up top.  So should we just call it a 9/16?  

How about "small 1/2" or "big 1/2"?  I'm good with that.  

Also--why would it matter to any of us?  If someone calls me to fill in for their crew chief and set their sprint car up at a track I have never been to, I will likely ask for the exact measurements.  If I am going to the race as a spectator, I have two questions:  1.  Where is the beer stand?  2.  Where is the pisser?  

I'll leave the track measurements up to the track officials and the crew chiefs.  




ovaltrack
May 14, 2017 at 11:05:02 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 46
Reply

I think Johnny Gibson said at Sedalia that Missouri State Fair Speedway would be the biggest track that WoO races on this year. So I guess it is a full or big half mile.



Murphy
May 15, 2017 at 07:34:50 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: PowerSlave on May 14 2017 at 08:02:38 PM

I used to 3d model tracks as a hobby for sim-racing ect. ect... I measured a lot of tracks using Google Earth which seemed to be fairly acurate from what I could tell. There's a lot of tracks that are simply full of shit for a lack of better terms. A prime example is Husets, or whatever the hell its called these days. Their website in the mid 2000's claimed that the track was a 3/8 mile. I remember that they later changed it to saying that it was a 1/3 mile which is a little bit closer to the truth, but that's still an exageration. A lot of people like to bag on Eldora for the 1/2 mile claim, but they're far from being the only culprit.



     Husets works out to about a standard 9/32 track, if you measure just inside the wall. Where this comes into play is is advertising. Husets used to say they were a fast 3/8 mile track. Using lap times and and an exaggerated length, they could then suggest that the sprints were going 135 m.p.h.!

     I think this last weekend, lap times on a small 3/8 mile track in South Dakota were only a couple seconds quicker than the lap times on the big half mile track at Knoxville.



dsc1600
May 15, 2017 at 08:07:54 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
Reply

Track distance became a big deal about 10 years ago when PA folks would get annoyed that Eldora called itself a 1/2 mile. Regardless, the A main speeds at eldora at 14-15 second laps are much faster than the 20-21 second A main speeds at the Grove. 




blazer00
May 15, 2017 at 09:42:04 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply

Lap speeds are continually exaggerated.......by nearly all, and the WoO are just as guilty. TNN /Diamond P Sports, or Knoxville officials......one of those installed radar speed signs at the end of the back straight during the Nationals back in the late 80's early 90's for the TV broadcasts. If declaring speeds is so damn important, that's the only speed that is consistant to all. Doesn't matter the track size, or the groove being run. If a car comes in at 130 mph.....that's the peak speed being reached by that car. Good enough for me! Simple solution, and a speed that can be considered accurate. And if one car comes in at 130mph.....and the next one comes in at 128mph but has a better time, guess what? The second car either ran a slightly different groove or got through the corners better. An observation any good announcer should be able to pick up and make discussion with.



BigRightRear
May 15, 2017 at 09:50:07 AM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3751
Reply

in order to turn a 1/2 mile lap @ Eldora, you must climb the fence in T1 and race in the grass...dollansky tried it one year I was there...

Google Earth is more accurate than the tales told on the microphone


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Murphy
May 15, 2017 at 10:06:59 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3262
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: on at


     A disclaimer of sorts.... I'm not the guy with a measuring wheel.


     But the math-

     If you measure it on Google maps, Husets Speedway is about 1516 feet per lap, based on being right at the wall in the corners and taking the logical path on the rest of the lap. It is 1317 feet per lap if you hug the bottom in the corners and diamond out to the walls onm the front and back stretch. The track record is something like 10.41 seconds(?)

     So, a guy like Terry McCarl, who I think still holds that track record(?), doing a lap up top in 10.41 seconds covers 8,919 feet in 60 seconds. That's 101 m.p.h. average speed. That's faster on the straights, slower in the corners.

     A guy like Jody Rosenboom that likes to run the bottom will cover7,748 feet in 60 seconds. That's 88 m.p.h. average speed.  Either guy could win on any given night, so it really doesn't matter that much what the track length is, or how it's advertised.





rpmgordy
May 15, 2017 at 10:21:29 AM
Joined: 12/14/2013
Posts: 43
Reply

Will White used Google Earth to measure tracks on his Auto Racing Records site. Bottom, middle and top lengths are listed for you to make comparisons without any hidden agendas. I found it interesting and was glad to see my naked eye observations were quite accurate.



BigRightRear
May 15, 2017 at 10:42:57 AM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3751
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: rpmgordy on May 15 2017 at 10:21:29 AM

Will White used Google Earth to measure tracks on his Auto Racing Records site. Bottom, middle and top lengths are listed for you to make comparisons without any hidden agendas. I found it interesting and was glad to see my naked eye observations were quite accurate.



intersting website...

 

 


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May



Post Reply
You must be logged in to Post a Message.
Not a member register Here.
Already registered? Please Login





If you have a website and would like to set up a forum here at HoseHeadForums.com
please contact us by using the contact link at the top of the page.

© 2024 HoseHeadForums.com Privacy Policy