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Topic: Will there ever be another "Big Three?" Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 2   of  23 replies
Feese11
July 17, 2016 at 08:16:00 PM
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 65
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Back when Steve, Sammy, and Doug were in their prime swapping wins the label "Big Three" was started by someone and it stuck.   The excitement and drama of attending the Knoxville Nationals back in 1980 - 1990 when the Big Three were in their prime kicking butt was second to none.   Whether Steve, Sammy, or Doug won mattered little to me as I admired each equally and was in awe of their racing abilities.   I really liked all three.   Now in the present we have Donny Schatz.    I have great respect for Donny Schatz driving abilities and his dominance of the Knoxville Nationals and WoO over past decade but I must admit he doesn't excite me.   I don't dislike Schatz because he wins too much like many do.   I just can't seem to like and admire him like I did the Big Three.   And I wonder why to myself there seems to be nothing close or like a new Big Three presently.  Sure you have Sweet, Gravel, Pittman, Stewart, and Saldana winning their share of WoO races this year yet I don't feel a new Big Three anytime soon.   Why is that?    Could it have been if Kyle Larson and Rico Abreu had run full time WoO with Schatz?    Any thoughts?     




Gonesprintin'
July 17, 2016 at 08:22:50 PM
Joined: 09/24/2015
Posts: 67
Reply

Im not going to claim to be an expert and go on and on. For one thing though you don't necessarily have all of the top drivers racing full time with the WoO. There are so many choices now. You can make money running all stars, nsl, local (pa, etc) or you can just pop in wherever you want. I'd love to get to a point where every top driver has the want and ability to go full time with the world of outlaws.

 

Schatz dominating doesn't help either. Its like Tiger was with golf. Once he left it opened the door now there are 3-4 guys at the top rathef than one dominating.



ThePurple73
July 17, 2016 at 09:07:42 PM
Joined: 08/04/2010
Posts: 275
Reply

The cream rises to the top, always has, always will.

 

Actually it seemed "the big three" were on the leading edge of when "Wings" started to be used a lot. Plus teams started to travel nation wide more.

Before the early 1980's many veteran drivers who did run wings had spent most of their career running with out wings.

Also drivers that were Nationals champions at that time like Shuman, Leavitt spent time racing USAC classes.

 




Jamie Klootwyk
July 17, 2016 at 09:52:55 PM
Joined: 09/14/2006
Posts: 487
Reply

perhaps the Big 3, or 4, or 5 of this generation just didn't happen due to bad luck, tragedy, or the tough reality of sprint car racing today (MONEY and greener pastures).  Donny will be 39 come Nationals.  I consider his generation guys from about 30 to 50.

Jason Meyers retired abruptly in his prime 5 years ago. (think he's still in his 30s)

Lost Kevin Gobrecht in 1999.  (would be 46 now I believe)  

Tyler Walker's substance abuse derailed his career... now 37.

Neither Brown (37) nor Hodnett (41) survived early stints with WoO and now choose to ride locally.

Add guys like Gordon (44), Stewart (45), Kahne (36), successfully moving to NASCAR.  (Yes, Jeff Gordon is only 6 years older than Schatz!!! sounds crazy)

Heck Dave Blaney's only 53.  He left for NASCAR at age 35.  Probably would have given Donny a good run until at least 2010 or so.

Mark Kinser is 52.  Retired ten years ago at age 42.  Pretty sure he also could have wheeled a sprint car for 10 more years and probably taken one or two of those Nationals titles away from Donny.

There's been plenty of talent in and around the sport that left or we lost.  And I'm probably missing a few other very talented drivers.

 



kmart
MyWebsite
July 17, 2016 at 11:04:46 PM
Joined: 08/23/2007
Posts: 542
Reply

Could have been Rico, Larson and Bell but so much for that.



blazer00
July 18, 2016 at 01:21:47 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply

I was fortunate to witness the entire careers of the "Big 3". They were of the innovator generation of sprint cars. And though there were many in the country bringing change, like Bobby Allen to name just one, those three really learned what it took to put a car up front. Steve not so much when it came to making the car go because he had Karl. But Wolfgang and Swindell could put the car together from the ground up, select the engine that best fit there needs, do set up and drive right along with Kinser. Today drivers rely to much on what gets bought off the shelf in my opinion. Sure, there are crew chiefs today that are better at making things work, but those guys tend to be the ones with the biggest budgets......in fact HUGE budgets.  Did Steve, Sammy and Doug have the benefit of big budgets? Sure they did from time to time. But not in their early years, and not year after year as they rose to the top. Doug's last year befor the injury was running part time for a farmer. And still they were a threat everytime they hit the track. There were lean years for them too, but they still seemed to dominate and that came from the ability to adapt. How many times today do you see a crew chief and driver walk the entire track once and even twice in a nights racing? That was common back in the day of the "Big 3". The car back then was a much more adaptable car and they knew how to adjust during a night, and from one night to the next. I think the thing that stands out the most from that generation and the one that followed right in behind, is the fact that those guys are able to be competitive in to their late fifties and even their sixties. I think they have it in the "seat of their pants", which might be missing today in many drivers. That's what I don't think we will ever see again. JMO of course.




no nerf bars
July 18, 2016 at 08:10:12 AM
Joined: 02/05/2011
Posts: 376
Reply

I was just pondering the exact...same....thing this weekend after the Kings Royal. 

Donny is good. But he is boring. And so are the other Outlaw drivers. Too conservative. The original Big Three would make you sit on the edge of your seat.....and go Wow! The driving and the daring moves they made to pass cars....they were just the best!  Jac Haud too.  

The next "Big Three" , IMO, would have been Larson, Abreu and Bell...if not for Nascar. You can throw Sheldon Haud in there too. But these new guys don't seem to work on their own cars much. Times have changed. 

Larson, Abreu and Bell make you excited to watch them. They all mash the peddle and take your breath away with their driving...in and out and around the competition and against the fence. Always on the edge and afterwards you say, Wow! How did he do that? And they win races. 



egras
July 18, 2016 at 08:34:35 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3903
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Reply to:
Posted By: kmart on July 17 2016 at 11:04:46 PM

Could have been Rico, Larson and Bell but so much for that.



You're kinda right...............but, did you ever think there was any chance they would be in sprint cars their entire careers?

 

If so, then Kinser, Sammy and Doug would have been one of the "Big 10" had all of the other stars all stuck around thru the years in sprint cars. Gordon, Stewart, etc, etc, etc. 

 

As far as a previous poster's comments about Schatz domination, I don't see it that way.  Kinser was far more dominant and the series has far more parody now than it did back in the days of the "big three". 



Feese11
July 18, 2016 at 09:05:32 AM
Joined: 02/25/2012
Posts: 65
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Jamie Klootwyk on July 17 2016 at 09:52:55 PM

perhaps the Big 3, or 4, or 5 of this generation just didn't happen due to bad luck, tragedy, or the tough reality of sprint car racing today (MONEY and greener pastures).  Donny will be 39 come Nationals.  I consider his generation guys from about 30 to 50.

Jason Meyers retired abruptly in his prime 5 years ago. (think he's still in his 30s)

Lost Kevin Gobrecht in 1999.  (would be 46 now I believe)  

Tyler Walker's substance abuse derailed his career... now 37.

Neither Brown (37) nor Hodnett (41) survived early stints with WoO and now choose to ride locally.

Add guys like Gordon (44), Stewart (45), Kahne (36), successfully moving to NASCAR.  (Yes, Jeff Gordon is only 6 years older than Schatz!!! sounds crazy)

Heck Dave Blaney's only 53.  He left for NASCAR at age 35.  Probably would have given Donny a good run until at least 2010 or so.

Mark Kinser is 52.  Retired ten years ago at age 42.  Pretty sure he also could have wheeled a sprint car for 10 more years and probably taken one or two of those Nationals titles away from Donny.

There's been plenty of talent in and around the sport that left or we lost.  And I'm probably missing a few other very talented drivers.

 



Thanks for your reply which was great.   After reading what you said I am sitting here thinking of all those names you listed that could have had a bigger impact in sprint car racing if not for circumstances.   No doubt a new Big Three or even Big Five was in that group.   




dsc1600
July 18, 2016 at 09:29:02 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4369
Reply

Larson is the one who could have challenged Schatz. Rico and Bell are gassers who until they learned the slick tracks, would struggle long term on the WoO tour like everyone else does until they learn.

Larson is a once in a lifetime talent, who would probably be better than Schatz in a couple of years on the tour.



dsc1600
July 18, 2016 at 09:30:36 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4369
Reply

Let's also remember that in the 12 or so years of the "Big 3", they only ran the WoO tour together a handful of times. King ran it every year but 1989, but Wolfgang was in the 29 for 4 years and Sammy only ran the full tour sporadically after 1985 until the mid 90s.



blazer00
July 18, 2016 at 10:15:50 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: dsc1600 on July 18 2016 at 09:30:36 AM

Let's also remember that in the 12 or so years of the "Big 3", they only ran the WoO tour together a handful of times. King ran it every year but 1989, but Wolfgang was in the 29 for 4 years and Sammy only ran the full tour sporadically after 1985 until the mid 90s.



You're exatly right about the number of years they ran the entire season together. And of the three, Wolfgang ran the fewest years. But, one thing nearly always brought the "Big 3" together every year. The big races! That's where the dominance of the "Big 3" shines. Kinser was great, no doubt. But I also think he should be grateful that Sammy and Doug weren't racing him every night over all those years!




ROTORGLOW
July 18, 2016 at 05:20:59 PM
Joined: 12/20/2010
Posts: 188
Reply
This message was edited on July 18, 2016 at 05:32:16 PM by ROTORGLOW

The heated rivarly is whats missing and when your paying your own bills to race each night and on the road and winning means eating your up on the wheel and not making friends.  Thats whats missing theses days.  Most drivers are fat and happy and satisfied and dare I say owned by their "Corporate Masters" and must bow down to say and act as "PC" as they must.  

All these things being said , no rivalry, no animosity, no hunger for money, just pals and buddies and milk toast racing. But hey their are many fans that will say its the best its ever been and its all great,   well let me tell you they havent witnessed what i witnessed in the 60's, 70's, 80's and early early 90's cause that was was man up racing period.


CAJ

revjimk
July 18, 2016 at 05:38:54 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7591
Reply

I don't think Donny's boring at all, he's just good. Did you watch him win from 21st at Knoxville? He's efficient!

Agree that Larson, Rico & Bell running off to NASCAR waters down the field....



sprintcarfanatic
July 18, 2016 at 06:22:43 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1065
Reply

There is you just never hear of the other 2 SmileSmileSmile




Peahead
July 18, 2016 at 06:46:26 PM
Joined: 02/02/2015
Posts: 31
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: ROTORGLOW on July 18 2016 at 05:20:59 PM

The heated rivarly is whats missing and when your paying your own bills to race each night and on the road and winning means eating your up on the wheel and not making friends.  Thats whats missing theses days.  Most drivers are fat and happy and satisfied and dare I say owned by their "Corporate Masters" and must bow down to say and act as "PC" as they must.  

All these things being said , no rivalry, no animosity, no hunger for money, just pals and buddies and milk toast racing. But hey their are many fans that will say its the best its ever been and its all great,   well let me tell you they havent witnessed what i witnessed in the 60's, 70's, 80's and early early 90's cause that was was man up racing period.



This comment says it all about The Outlaws nowadays. There won't be another Big Three again in our lifetimes.



sprintman11
July 18, 2016 at 08:28:24 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 691
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on July 18 2016 at 10:15:50 AM

You're exatly right about the number of years they ran the entire season together. And of the three, Wolfgang ran the fewest years. But, one thing nearly always brought the "Big 3" together every year. The big races! That's where the dominance of the "Big 3" shines. Kinser was great, no doubt. But I also think he should be grateful that Sammy and Doug weren't racing him every night over all those years!



The king also didn't run with the WoO full time in 1995 (nascar) and 2006 (NST)



sc lm race fan
July 19, 2016 at 04:28:10 AM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
Reply

Well if you take just the WoO only it is like this.

Steve Kinser 20 titles -then; Donny Schatz 7 titles - now

Sammy Swindell - 2 titles then 1 Title - then; Jason Meyers - 2 titles - now

winning Doug Wolfgang - no titles but alot of wins -then: Daryn Pittman - 1 title, some wins - now

Also add Mark Kinser - 2 titles, Dave Blaney - 1 title, Jac Haudenshield, Stevie Smith - then

Also add Joey Saldana, Danny Lasoski - 1 title, Craig Dollansky - now

This is all off the woosprints.com site.

Over the years Wolfgang never ran all the races, neither has the Dude, or other drivers never came out for the Cali tour part, now the west coast swing in the early part of the year and the fall swing out west. SO now you get a lot of track or area wins for the locals which never used to happen.




minthess
MyWebsite
July 19, 2016 at 07:19:07 AM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
Reply

We have it.  Donny, Logan and Jacob


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

sadiesue
July 19, 2016 at 10:04:16 AM
Joined: 08/09/2005
Posts: 311
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 18 2016 at 05:38:54 PM

I don't think Donny's boring at all, he's just good. Did you watch him win from 21st at Knoxville? He's efficient!

Agree that Larson, Rico & Bell running off to NASCAR waters down the field....



Theres going to be more young and coming stars to be going to NASCAR





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