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Topic: Car Counts
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June 03, 2016 at
09:39:34 AM
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Been thinking about this lately and wanted other opinions. When did car counts become the main deciding factor if a race was considered a success? I've been to races in the past few years where I was excited that there are 40+ cars. Only to be left watching endless heat races, at the end of the night the track was used up come feature time and the shows gets finshed around 12:30.In most (not all) cases there are about 3-5 favorites and about 5 other guys who have a decent chance to take the win. There are times that the heavy underdog wins but not often.
If you went to a race with the 10 guys that all had a good shot at winning the race, put on a great show and it gets over around 9 I'm not sure I see the downside. Thinking of a show getting over at 12:30 and a 20 min. drive home, no problem. Now if that show get's over at 12:30 and it's a 3 hour drive home is a different story. I do it because I love the sport but it can be draining after a long week of work and I have passed on shows before for this reason.
I understand that if we get car counts down too low that eventually the sport will fade away because the guys who are in the back of the field now could be tommorow's winners. It just seems like most people will see that a car count is 25 and automatically assume the race wasn't good.
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June 03, 2016 at
11:52:32 AM
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For a sanctioned race, say USAC, All Stars etc., 32-36 is just right. 4 (8) car heat races is a nice show.
Any show under 18 cars I don't feel I am getting my monies worth.
E-mods: Anywhere from zero to negative 1 is just right.
JMO
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June 03, 2016 at
12:07:26 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jac22 on June 03 2016 at 09:39:34 AM
Been thinking about this lately and wanted other opinions. When did car counts become the main deciding factor if a race was considered a success? I've been to races in the past few years where I was excited that there are 40+ cars. Only to be left watching endless heat races, at the end of the night the track was used up come feature time and the shows gets finshed around 12:30.In most (not all) cases there are about 3-5 favorites and about 5 other guys who have a decent chance to take the win. There are times that the heavy underdog wins but not often.
If you went to a race with the 10 guys that all had a good shot at winning the race, put on a great show and it gets over around 9 I'm not sure I see the downside. Thinking of a show getting over at 12:30 and a 20 min. drive home, no problem. Now if that show get's over at 12:30 and it's a 3 hour drive home is a different story. I do it because I love the sport but it can be draining after a long week of work and I have passed on shows before for this reason.
I understand that if we get car counts down too low that eventually the sport will fade away because the guys who are in the back of the field now could be tommorow's winners. It just seems like most people will see that a car count is 25 and automatically assume the race wasn't good.
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I agree with you on this one. Quality over quantity in my opinion. Going to my local track tonight to watch a midget show that's probably only going to pull 15 cars, at best.
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June 03, 2016 at
12:18:16 PM
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Jac22
I think everyone associated with short track racing is worried because of the economy and the number of car owners who have gone away. That is why the obsession with car counts. I think it is a good way to access the health of the sport, but not the quality of the racing on a given night, I agree.
We did see a heck of a race at Wayne County last weekend with 28 cars. We saw a heck of a race at Attica the night before with 40 some cars.
Any show with 28-30 cars or more is good enough for me. At least a few cars need to race their way into the feature. And I agree with Saphead...zero to negative one is just right for the e-mods...super stocks, super trucks, mini-modifieds, spectator sportsman limited enduro economy crate wedges....whatever you can call them!
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June 04, 2016 at
01:43:03 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: paydirt28 on June 03 2016 at 12:07:26 PM
I agree with you on this one. Quality over quantity in my opinion. Going to my local track tonight to watch a midget show that's probably only going to pull 15 cars, at best.
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So only 11 BCRA midgets showed at Ocean Speedway, 9 raced. That's even a little light for my taste. There was atually a good race for the lead over the last handful of laps. If not for that, total bust.
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June 04, 2016 at
01:57:10 AM
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Well if every car makes the A- Main, then heats are pretty much meaningless.
We want to see lots of meaningful racing, & not just reshuffling the same few cars
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June 04, 2016 at
02:40:33 PM
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I saw that....18 sprinters....what is the normal car count for 410's at WG? Any specific reason for the short count?
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June 04, 2016 at
05:25:57 PM
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Just asked was all......
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June 04, 2016 at
09:22:05 PM
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Posted By: blazer00 on June 04 2016 at 05:25:57 PM
Just asked was all......
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Williams Grove has one of the best weekly purse payouts in the country. For refernce Williams Grove, Knoxville, and 2015 Lincoln purses. So why would any team not want to run at the Grove? I would imagine alot has to do with the rising costs of,,,,,, well everything...... The only thing that is realatively cheap right now is gas, and I don't know how long that's gonna hold out. When you look at the grove you see a track where getting off the corner and having the strongest horse under the hood is paramount. Not alot of folks can dump $50,000+ into a powerplant. Unfortunately it isn't that much cheaper to run a 360 or 358.
I would bet that's half of it though. If a team can't be competitive they would rather just keep it in the shop. Or in the case of the Kreitz crew bring it out those few times when the money makes it worth it.
Not sure how you get more teams to the track, but I imagine most folks are losing money most nights.
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June 04, 2016 at
09:24:19 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on June 04 2016 at 05:25:57 PM
Just asked was all......
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Non time trial shows are around mid 20's...time trial shows have been hi 20's. Last night Marks was running with the WoO in Ohio, Buckwalter is running midgets in Indiana, Krimes was a no show, as was Ott. Mark Smith only ran his 360 in the URC portion of the program. Didetto's been traveling all over the east coast but hasn't been at the Grove in weeks.
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June 04, 2016 at
10:45:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: railfan33 on June 04 2016 at 09:24:19 PM
Non time trial shows are around mid 20's...time trial shows have been hi 20's. Last night Marks was running with the WoO in Ohio, Buckwalter is running midgets in Indiana, Krimes was a no show, as was Ott. Mark Smith only ran his 360 in the URC portion of the program. Didetto's been traveling all over the east coast but hasn't been at the Grove in weeks.
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Thanks to you and kossuth for the info......I knew the Grove generally had good fields and a good purse so I kind of knew something was causing the short car count other than the normal cost problem. I have watched all the replays of the PA tracks mostly on DRR and I thought the weekly car count was around 25-28 for the 410's or in that vacinity. Always good racing! And larger car counts for special shows too I know. WG and the PA tracks as I've stated before are on my bucket list. The history out there is awesome. Drove 100 miles out of our way going East for a family function during the off season 25 years ago just so my son and I could see WG. Pretty cool just seeing the place!
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June 05, 2016 at
10:39:58 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jac22 on June 03 2016 at 09:39:34 AM
Been thinking about this lately and wanted other opinions. When did car counts become the main deciding factor if a race was considered a success? I've been to races in the past few years where I was excited that there are 40+ cars. Only to be left watching endless heat races, at the end of the night the track was used up come feature time and the shows gets finshed around 12:30.In most (not all) cases there are about 3-5 favorites and about 5 other guys who have a decent chance to take the win. There are times that the heavy underdog wins but not often.
If you went to a race with the 10 guys that all had a good shot at winning the race, put on a great show and it gets over around 9 I'm not sure I see the downside. Thinking of a show getting over at 12:30 and a 20 min. drive home, no problem. Now if that show get's over at 12:30 and it's a 3 hour drive home is a different story. I do it because I love the sport but it can be draining after a long week of work and I have passed on shows before for this reason.
I understand that if we get car counts down too low that eventually the sport will fade away because the guys who are in the back of the field now could be tommorow's winners. It just seems like most people will see that a car count is 25 and automatically assume the race wasn't good.
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Jac 22, great point and we miss the 22 pennzoil car do we not? we just finished a great show last night here in chico for a twenty dollar bill! 28 four tens and a track that was wicked fast. some conversation from the booth validates wht you are saying. 50-60 cars, five heats, rutt up the track and it goes away making the racing hum ho. the track was excellent and the A finished somewhere around nine, ten minute drive and im home drinking a pacifico with lime.
it is apparent with the track prep the last month here has been second to none, Silver dollar speedway is back...
racing i care about...
Ascot was the greatest of all time..
West Capital wasn't half bad either..
Life is good...
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June 05, 2016 at
10:51:46 AM
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Reply to:
Does that piss off libtards?
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June 05, 2016 at
05:50:20 PM
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I think that car counts have become more of an issue over the years due to the smaller fields. It used to be at many tracks that you could usually be guaranteed a B Main, but at some of them that's not the case anymore.
When I'm at a track, the first question I usually get from friends who aren't there is "How many cars?", usually followed by "Who's there?". I'm the same way.
Car counts are important to me because they make the heat races more meaningful. Also, a high car count usually means a higher number of "quality cars", although I'm not really sure how you define a "quality car". I've never been at a sprint car race where the car count was so high for the featured class that I viewed them as "endless", although I have felt that way when there were high numbers for a support class.
I'm not disappointed when I see a number of cars pull through the back gate who have little chance of winning. I'm not referring to those who are "squirrels", but those who are in lesser equipment but are able to hold their line. I've seen many races where lapped cars turned what was a somewhat lackluster race into an exciting one. I've always felt that the best drivers are the ones who can work their way through slower traffic better than others.
Just my 2 pennies...
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June 05, 2016 at
09:00:49 PM
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The turn down answer I get these days besides too dusty is continuous loud heavy metal music when someones not announcing.
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June 05, 2016 at
09:42:53 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jac22 on June 03 2016 at 09:39:34 AM
Been thinking about this lately and wanted other opinions. When did car counts become the main deciding factor if a race was considered a success? I've been to races in the past few years where I was excited that there are 40+ cars. Only to be left watching endless heat races, at the end of the night the track was used up come feature time and the shows gets finshed around 12:30.In most (not all) cases there are about 3-5 favorites and about 5 other guys who have a decent chance to take the win. There are times that the heavy underdog wins but not often.
If you went to a race with the 10 guys that all had a good shot at winning the race, put on a great show and it gets over around 9 I'm not sure I see the downside. Thinking of a show getting over at 12:30 and a 20 min. drive home, no problem. Now if that show get's over at 12:30 and it's a 3 hour drive home is a different story. I do it because I love the sport but it can be draining after a long week of work and I have passed on shows before for this reason.
I understand that if we get car counts down too low that eventually the sport will fade away because the guys who are in the back of the field now could be tommorow's winners. It just seems like most people will see that a car count is 25 and automatically assume the race wasn't good.
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I would like to see a perfect 32 car count 4 heats , B main and a A main. But I am good with 3 heats a B, and A main. I have seen some great 24 + car count races.
We need more sprint car racing at our home track.
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June 06, 2016 at
07:23:27 AM
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And for the umpteenth year in a row a thread about the demise of dirt track racing based on low car counts and a horrible economy. Yep, this time it's definitely over, I mean if Williamsgrove only had 18 cars it must be true because they are the measuring stick for everything.
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June 06, 2016 at
08:26:35 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jac22 on June 03 2016 at 09:39:34 AM
Been thinking about this lately and wanted other opinions. When did car counts become the main deciding factor if a race was considered a success? I've been to races in the past few years where I was excited that there are 40+ cars. Only to be left watching endless heat races, at the end of the night the track was used up come feature time and the shows gets finshed around 12:30.In most (not all) cases there are about 3-5 favorites and about 5 other guys who have a decent chance to take the win. There are times that the heavy underdog wins but not often.
If you went to a race with the 10 guys that all had a good shot at winning the race, put on a great show and it gets over around 9 I'm not sure I see the downside. Thinking of a show getting over at 12:30 and a 20 min. drive home, no problem. Now if that show get's over at 12:30 and it's a 3 hour drive home is a different story. I do it because I love the sport but it can be draining after a long week of work and I have passed on shows before for this reason.
I understand that if we get car counts down too low that eventually the sport will fade away because the guys who are in the back of the field now could be tommorow's winners. It just seems like most people will see that a car count is 25 and automatically assume the race wasn't good.
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I don't understand people wanting to get to the track at 7 and leave at 9! What's the rush? I want to see as much racing as possible!
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June 06, 2016 at
07:19:37 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MRZERO on June 06 2016 at 08:26:35 AM
I don't understand people wanting to get to the track at 7 and leave at 9! What's the rush? I want to see as much racing as possible!
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Me too and as time goes on the more classes the track owners have. There was a race a hour away from where l live last month and they had 9 classes counting the sprints. I didnt go because of that. I wish they would $h/t can the 410s and just run 360s...theres no way a team can make money running a 410 unless your Donnie .. and whats the problem? Cost of motors and WG has to be hard on a motor.
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June 07, 2016 at
09:45:53 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: NWFAN on June 05 2016 at 10:39:58 AM
Jac 22, great point and we miss the 22 pennzoil car do we not? we just finished a great show last night here in chico for a twenty dollar bill! 28 four tens and a track that was wicked fast. some conversation from the booth validates wht you are saying. 50-60 cars, five heats, rutt up the track and it goes away making the racing hum ho. the track was excellent and the A finished somewhere around nine, ten minute drive and im home drinking a pacifico with lime.
it is apparent with the track prep the last month here has been second to none, Silver dollar speedway is back...
racing i care about...
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X2 on missing the Pennzoil 22
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