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Topic: What happened to quality motorsports pictures?
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Page 7 of 9 of 176 replies
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April 02, 2008 at
12:18:54 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RSOW on February 22 2008 at 07:33:52 PM
What happened to quality motorsports pictures? There are alot of great photographers around. So why the horrible quality all of the sudden? Has anyone seen the really dark picture on the front page of Hockett? Dark, Blurred. Just not quality. What's happening?
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This is a problem, everyone thinks they are a photographer in this digital world. I have been taking photos of motorsports for over 40 years. I have only shot digital the last year. I have worked very hard to produce good photos. I do not photo shop my photos. I now work for a race track, and I have had to stop the freelance guy that does nothing for the race track, just post photos for sell on there web site. If you want to take photos at a dirt track, It will be the hardess thing you will ever photograph. I have gone to all manuel shooting at night and using old manuel focus lens.
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April 02, 2008 at
12:22:36 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: ImageWorks on February 23 2008 at 12:49:28 PM
The main problem with fans and sponsors and of course racers being able to obtain QUALITY IMAGES, is this: There are a zillion people out there that have spent a thousand bucks or two and that made them pro photogs instantly, no training, no background, let alone, no talent. These are the people who want a free pit pass, get into the races for free, then never ever do much to pay the sport back, other than give away sub-standard photos, so they can get in the pits again next week for a free ride. Its, a growing problem. If you dont believe me, ask good friend, Randy Jones, one of the best sprint car photogs in our era. Jones will tell you the real smak down on this very issue. Al Consoli is yet another great person who knows the business and how it has changed so dramatically since the age of digital and why there are hundreds of not thousands of good people, who just want a free ticket, so they go do the American Dream, buy a mid range camera, a lens and two battery flash, and then WHALA.... YOU GET WHAT YOU GET.......
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AMEN
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April 02, 2008 at
06:24:10 AM
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IT's baaaaaaaaaack................LOL!!!
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April 02, 2008 at
08:43:11 AM
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yes its back!!!!! LOL.....
well i guess this little video clip I had sent to me from another photgrapher kinda fits into this subject, he sent it to me when I told him that someone got all pissed when I wouldnt let them use one of my photos for free for the cover of some brochure but I did say he could buy the digital image for $50 and use it for whatever he wanted....well anyways heres that clip and I know that all of us pro photogs will understand this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
"Just a hack with a camera" :) Yea Right!!
www.baphotos.myphotoalbum.com
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April 02, 2008 at
04:33:07 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: tkaphoto on March 27 2008 at 06:58:20 PM
Here is a picture I took this past weekend with a Canon 40d, 85mm 1.8 lens, And a Shoe Mount Canon 580EX. At Manzanita on the short track, in poor lighting conditions. So what is the truth? Fill me in on the "so called shoe mount shots". I am just curious!
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I use a similar setup on a Nikon with the SB800 but it's mounted off camera with a bracket and external power pack. I've used the Nikon version of the 85mm f1.8. Here's one from last Sunday.
And if the day ever comes that I'm tired of standing around the infield I have been taking photos like this from the stands for 25 years.
This has been an interesting thread. Someone should create a dirt track racing message board specifically for photographers.
Stan Meissner (Check out the photo gallery and blog)
Website
www.gotomn.com
Photos
Blog
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April 02, 2008 at
06:15:06 PM
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normans light up the subject during a daytime show better by filling in the shadows of the car and causes the color to pop....especially on the dark side of the car when the sun is backlighting it as show in this Mat Neely shot
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.JPG)
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April 02, 2008 at
06:28:22 PM
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Wing car shot is sweet but the top pic looks funny to me
OH; it's on a asphalt track 
Brian
"TURN AROUND; MATE !"
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April 02, 2008 at
10:35:42 PM
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THE VIDEO ON THE UTUBE SUMS IT UP VERY GOOD.....its the real issue of quanity versus quality again......RIGHT AL
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April 02, 2008 at
10:41:50 PM
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Hell Tim I didnt know that was you posting, damn I feel stupid LOL
"Just a hack with a camera" :) Yea Right!!
www.baphotos.myphotoalbum.com
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April 03, 2008 at
12:40:12 AM
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Man oh man
I joined the dark side today
"this one" knows what I mean
Brian
"TURN AROUND; MATE !"
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April 03, 2008 at
07:09:19 AM
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Just remember Tim, according to M. Hill, you're just a point and shoot photographer when you use a Norman.
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April 04, 2008 at
12:21:31 PM
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This message was edited on
April 04, 2008 at
12:37:54 PM by photoman949
 This I shot full manuel with this old D100 nikon. I used old 1.8 manuel focus 50mm lens with SB800 at half power. NO PHOTO SHOP or croping.
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April 27, 2008 at
10:19:44 PM
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I think all tracks should have a photo policy,and post it on the tracks web site. This is not an easy thing to do. Look at www.junctionmotorspeedway.com they have a posted photo policy.
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April 27, 2008 at
10:56:08 PM
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So at Junction Motor Speedway if you sign their application form you may be granted the right to lug around 40-50 pounds of equipment for 6-8 hours, work your butt off through the night and in the end even be allowed to submit the photos they approve to what they consider a news worthy institution but by no means will you be allowed to use any photo taken with your 10-15k worth of equipment in a manner that may allow you to make enough money to cover your gasoline expenses. Non-compliance will result in revocation. Why the hell would anyone shoot there in the first place?
Where are quality photographers going. I said on the first page and I will say it again. To places that understand what a quality photographer can do for them promotion wise. It is great to set limits but blanket suedo rules such as theirs' border on censorship of the press and freedom of speech (yes it includes print) as well as the fine line of right to work laws that nearly every state has.
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April 27, 2008 at
11:07:12 PM
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The reason for this is to not have the person use your race track to post and sell photos,and do nothing for the race track or the sport.
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April 27, 2008 at
11:44:05 PM
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Who decides whether one has done nothing for the sport? How decides which person has contributed enough? How much is enough? If it is to get photographers to do things for the track, what do they want them to do? If they do that also do they get to sell the photos they took?
Whether you believe it or not, posting and selling photos in itself helps the sport and the track, as well helps the teams and drivers. As a business person, not just a photographer, if I can not expect some kind of return, why would I invest the time.
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April 27, 2008 at
11:55:32 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Johns Racing Photos on April 27 2008 at 11:44:05 PM
Who decides whether one has done nothing for the sport? How decides which person has contributed enough? How much is enough? If it is to get photographers to do things for the track, what do they want them to do? If they do that also do they get to sell the photos they took?
Whether you believe it or not, posting and selling photos in itself helps the sport and the track, as well helps the teams and drivers. As a business person, not just a photographer, if I can not expect some kind of return, why would I invest the time.
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Before you guys start bitching about selling photos for profit... I'd like to ask to see your release forms from all parties in the photos, including all recognizable trademarks that are shown in the photos ie sponsor logos, etc etc.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can bitch about a track saying you don't have the right to show up, take photos, and sell them. Sure, the track is technically out of line for saying you can't since its a public event, however, on the side of copyright laws, regardless of what the track says, unless you have a release, you're commiting a crime by selling any photo for any form of money.
That video posted above.... KICKS ASS!, however, 90% photographers out there dont truthfully understand what he's saying...
Pretend Photographer...
www.figzphoto.com
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April 28, 2008 at
12:10:13 AM
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Figz - Copyright law has its own section with regards to photograph sales. You have been around long enough you should know this. A trademark displayed in advertising in a public forum is incidental to the photograph. As well as public figures and private citizens at a public forum. Photographs are considered works of art created by the person behind the lens and copyright laws expressly protect them in the use of those photos for profit.
If not for those laws protecting photographs there would be no books, no magazines and no newspapers. Don't take my word for it though. Do a little research on your own.
I know some of you think I am not a serious photographer and some of you probably think I do it just for the money. Fact is, I don't really care. I know the folks buying the photos; teams, drivers, sponsors, marketing agents and yes even promotors, like what I produce. I also know there are substandard photographers out there that hide behind "exclusive track agreement" as a manner of producing lower quality photos. Hell, I know one track photographer who uses a $59 inkjet with what ever photo paper is on sale that week.
And who is selling their photos for profit? Do you mean more than the print cost or more than you have invested at the event or more than your equipment costs?
I'll say it again. Where have quality motorsports photographers gone? Where it isn;t as much of a hassle to sell their photos. You see most of us are photographer's that like sprint car racing.
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April 28, 2008 at
07:49:11 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Johns Racing Photos on April 28 2008 at 12:10:13 AM
Figz - Copyright law has its own section with regards to photograph sales. You have been around long enough you should know this. A trademark displayed in advertising in a public forum is incidental to the photograph. As well as public figures and private citizens at a public forum. Photographs are considered works of art created by the person behind the lens and copyright laws expressly protect them in the use of those photos for profit.
If not for those laws protecting photographs there would be no books, no magazines and no newspapers. Don't take my word for it though. Do a little research on your own.
I know some of you think I am not a serious photographer and some of you probably think I do it just for the money. Fact is, I don't really care. I know the folks buying the photos; teams, drivers, sponsors, marketing agents and yes even promotors, like what I produce. I also know there are substandard photographers out there that hide behind "exclusive track agreement" as a manner of producing lower quality photos. Hell, I know one track photographer who uses a $59 inkjet with what ever photo paper is on sale that week.
And who is selling their photos for profit? Do you mean more than the print cost or more than you have invested at the event or more than your equipment costs?
I'll say it again. Where have quality motorsports photographers gone? Where it isn;t as much of a hassle to sell their photos. You see most of us are photographer's that like sprint car racing.
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It's this kind of ignorance that pisses me off... I -have- studied the copyright laws...
You obviously do not understand them. Taking photos from a public place of private citizens or buildings or what ever is completely fine and well within your rights as a photographer to sell those images to anyone.
However, there are two sides what we do... You can sell what ever photos you want to any form of publication or news agency or whatever, as long as its for editorial or news worth publications. So you can take a photo of Jane Dick and Harry all you want and sell them off to the newspapers and magazines. When you turn around and sell those photos for non-editorial purposes, this becomes a commercial sale of the photo and is not regarded as something that falls into the editorial selection. This is where you need a release from any recognizable image. This includes, people, logos, buildings, Jesus... It'd doesn't matter, you need it...Selling your photos just for the cost of materials is still a commercial sale.
So please don't go on specifically spouting how I should research copyright laws, since it's obvious you need to research a little bit more. These specific copyright issues do not protect the photographer... They protect the subjects within the photograph.
Alex
Pretend Photographer...
www.figzphoto.com
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April 28, 2008 at
07:50:14 AM
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I'm thinking it's not so much about sales but the tracks way of limiting the amount of photogs allowed at the track.... We all know there are a lot of people scamming their way into tracks that have NO business being there....This isn't the only place starting to crack the whip...
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