Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: hosehead

Good luck RJ. I hope you do well and find a good 410 ride. Like I said Ohio is a hotbed for sprintcar racing also. I forgot to mention KC raceway every Saturday night here in Ohio.

Just like RJ said. $25K for a 360 engine. $40K for a 410 engine. If you are a serious contender for the track championship you will need (2) 410 engines to get you through 1 season, versus (1) engine for 1 season in a 360. 40-25 is $15K per engine X 2 engines = $30K. Throw in a rebuild of $5K, plus the extra money on tires and it adds up in a hurry. But if you are a serious contender, you won't settle for rebuilt/refreshed engines for very long, you have to have new stuff. At least 1 new engine a year anyway. And that's if you raced 20-25 nights a year.

Another point about 360 racing. There are many legendary drivers enshrined in the HOF over on the backstretch who spent their whole careers in cars that are slower than today's 360's. Kind of puts it in perspective doesn't it.

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Hey RJ, welcome to the greatest dirt track in the world... Practice is the 12th and the track is ready to go now.....I'll have my lens on ya...LOL !!!

Dave

Never mind. You know much more than me- Which car do you own that is making a profit? I'll try to be more careful with he spelling of my thoughts on your board.

Whoa!!! Simple question. Point being that racing costs money, no matter who you are. It's just a matter of different people, with different levels of income, living just outside thier means.

Savage

EASports, did you read my earlier post? You can get an excellant used 410 for $25,000 you can get an excellant USED 360 for $25,000. Those prices are for used engines not new. You only need one engine in the 360 division to win the title? If I remember correctly Higday hurt an engine last year and it cost his owner the title. The rebuilds are nearly the exact same for a 360 and a 410. The tires??? How is running a 360 cheaper on tires? Knoxville has a one tire a night rule for 410's and 360's. Where is the money savings at?

I know many 360 guys that ran the same motor all year at Knoxville, including the owner's champion. You can have one 360 motor and baring no bad luck contend for the point title. Ask Brian Brown and Dusty Zomer how many motors they went through last year.

I say if you only race your engine at Knoxville you can contend for the title with one engine in the 410 class too baring bad luck. How many 410's did Brown and Zomer use? Throughout this conversation remember that the 360's race for less than half the money the 410's get paid. The pit passes are not half though and the fuel is not half and contrary to what you have read here the tire bill is not half.

Sorry to say sprintfan0, but if anyone thinks they're going to run up front for 20-24 weeks at Knoxville with a 410 that's even a few years old at this point, and only one of them at that, they're only fooling themselves. You've gotta keep up with the technology on heads and you've gotta freshen the engine even for a weekly track 10-12 nights max, or you're down on power big time in a 410. 360's lose over the course too, but not nearly what a 410 does. 360 freshen at Don Ott.....$3500/20 races. 410 freshen at Don Ott.....$6000-$8000 every 10-12. Lightweight / high rev engine freshen at Don Ott (best of everything and latest technology) $12000/4-6 races at most. Those are facts, and not myth....just saying that before you cry foul for these stats. Yes, as you asked me before, I'm in the game more than well enough to know the cost of running a sprint car team.

First of all, no I don't own a sprint car or never have, but I do have to ask the people who don't think that it costs anymore to run a 410 vs. a 360 a couple of questions. 1) If it isn't any cheaper, then why was it ever invented? 2) I realize the 410's pay more (for the few weekly tracks that run them), but why are 410 numbers shrinking when 360 numbers are growing? 3) Does it really cost the

same per race to run an ASCSoT car as a WoO car...or does it really cost more to run an ASCSoT car because it pays less?

Disclaimer: I'm not Karl K and I might have spelled a couple of words wrong.

man! and the debate rages on huh? Anyone that thinks it costs the same to run a 360 and a 410 team needs to be my sponsor. You guys should buy me a couple of new 410's and lets go racing! If it wasn't any more expensive, i would be the first one to make the jump believe me. I have wrenched for a 410 team, and raced my own 360 deal and anyone can tell you that with a 410 you need more tires. with a 360 you can get away with not bolting on stickers everytime you push off or maybe running a used tire in the heat race. i understand that knoxville has the one tire rule and i think thats great. it will help a guy like me when im able to break into the 410 class and i dont have big money sponsors. as for the price difference in engines, it is closer if you are talking about used engines. but if i was running for a track championship at a joint like knoxville, i dont think i would be counting on a used engine to get me there. maybe at a smaller racetrack it would be ok. but thats just my opinion. I think the people around knoxville should be greatful that they are able to have this debate about 360/410 because they get them both every week at the same track. im coming from a state which literally has no winged dirt sprint car racing anymore so i think you guys are lucky! and im looking for ward to spending the summer racing up there!

RJ

The real deal is motor rebuild 410 ia more than a360 plus a 410 purse is more than 360's you can side a 360 into a stockcar promoter eazier than a 410living here in iowa the best thing they can do is get rid of ythe imca mods' let's see if that happens!

What's that?

I want what tex777 is having, haha. Oh, and good luck at Knoxville RJ!!

360s are cheaper, but they aren't cheap. In addition to the engine rebuilds, 410s eat ring and pinions, u-joints and everything else. I'm sure they're even harder on wheel centers the way those things plant the left rear so hard. Plus, more and more of the 410 guys are running the exotic shocks so you have to get those to keep up.

Someone asked why they were started. Originally to save money and let folks use up older cars and still race or for rookies to get started. Knoxville allowed spring front cars and IMCA mods the first season, spring fronts the second but I don't think there were any - unless Craig Agan was still running one. Iron head, wet sump engines and steel wheels were the rule. Then somebody whined because steel wheels were one piece and junk if you bent them. So, we got to buy "used" aluminum wheels from the 410 guys. But some guys bought new. Then somebody whined because steel heads cracked and they wanted "used" aluminum heads from the 410s. Of course some bought new and spent dyno time developing better air flow and lots more horsepower. Since we were going flat out with the addition of nose wings and big top wings, wet sump engines were blowing up so we spent money to buy dry sumps, $1500 to save blowing up a $7000 engine. And then... well, you should be able to see what's coming. Some racers will spend whatever it takes to win, it's always been that way and always will.