Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
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I guess you have never watched the NRA 360's at Eldora, or the NCRA 360's at Bellevue....hell of a show!

Jeff Kristensen
www.racewayvideo.com 

Johnny3wheels. Funny you said nothing about the new sanctioning group @ Manzanita running the smaller oval for most of their 360 shows. Only an occassional run on the 1/2 mile, like the upcoming McSpadden tribute race.

"When the green flag drops the bullshit stops" - The 
Great GP

In a different thread a guy wrote that the long straights on the 1/2 mile tracks,and especially Perris, were very hard on the 360's and the cause of a lot of blown motors in every race. Can you 360 guys verify this? Is this why 360's don't want to run at Perris?

Mike Brown

Gotcha 3wheels.. Jeff in your post you mention the NRA and NCRA, but as you know they are both winged groups. Though I am sure both put on good shows @ Eldora and the High Banks of Belleville. BTW the NCRA just raced @ Belleville for their one and only date.

"When the green flag drops the bullshit stops" - The 
Great GP

True they are winged but they have the same argument as here. A lot of 410 fans hate 360's with or without a wing. I personally don't understand that.

Check out the calliper of drivers listed in these 360 results from East Bay in Florida.

1: Shepard, Jeff (31 - Nickles) 2: Sides, Jason (7 - Rhodes) 3: Adams, Kenny (2a - Stauffer) 4: Johnson, Wayne (29 - Threatt) 5: Dewease, Lance (88 - Harz) 6: Johnson, Jason (41 - Row) 7: Wilson, Greg (63 - Hampshire) 8: Crawley, Tim (91 - Sparks) 9: Woodring, Mike (19) 10: Rilat, Travis (U2 - Archer) 11: Flynn, Ryan (F1) 12: McMahan, Paul (97 - Locuson) 13: Allen, Sport (88 - Andrews) 14: Laney, Ronald (52) 15: Bankston, John (8) 16: Howard, Dale (47) 17: Suprick, George (87 - Deuel) 18: King, Steve (88) 19: Chappell, Zach (50z) 20: Dupuy, Michael (00) 21: Wright, Gary (9) 22: Saldana, Joey (17) 23: McCarl, Terry (3 - Mulligan) 24: Neighbors, Larry (29n) 25: Smith, Brian (11) 26: Stauffer, Red (2) 27: Eldreth, Jon (25e)

$12,500 to win and they had maybe 500 people in the stands.

The NCRA might have just run their one and only date at Belleville for this year, but I saw them a few times there in 2000 and 2001.

Jeff Kristensen
www.racewayvideo.com 

RADROBINLB

My only point is that Southern California's open wheel racing history and tradition is with the 410s and midgets for that matter. BTW whatever happened to raj, who started this mess?

"When the green flag drops the bullshit stops" - The 
Great GP

I've given up trying to explain why I don't like 360s at the PAS but here goes one more time

ITS NOT THE SIZE OF THE TRACK ITS THE TIGHT TURNS AND LONG STRAIGHTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ventura is small

Manzy is a momentum track

The PAS is stop and go

ROB

ps 360s are fine on the right track the PAS is not the right track imho

Hey Tripcrwn, I've forgotten when it was that CRA mandated that the limit of Cubic inches would be only 410 and started that tradition. I'm sure you know what the "tradition" was before that and I certainly remember my dads reaction to the short block Chevy that ended another "tradition".LOL I probably was up in the Pacific Northwest at that time missing Ascot and Manzy like crazy and looking for a non-wing race besides USAC at the then paved Portland 1/2 mile and a occasional show at Cottage Grove.

What were the fans saying about it at that time, the racers,owners? Anybody?

Kenny

Fine. But what about the blown motors question?

Mike Brown

My only point is its all good...I'm ready to see a race now!

On a more somber note, in looking over the results from the 360 race at East Bay (2001) that I posted, I just noticed that 3 of drivers listed have since died in racing accidents. They gave it all so we can be entertained. God bless them and everyone that races, whether its big or small tracks, 360's or 410's, winged or not!

Jeff Kristensen
www.racewayvideo.com 

I seem to remember at Ascot they were called unlimited sprints.

Mike Brown

Maybe someone will help us with a little history of the 410s. Hey, 360s are fine, I have no problem and would like to go to the Grand Slam show in Bakersfield this Saturday night, its just that I like 410s better and I like them better at the PAS and forever I hope. BTW, we can't make Bakersfield this Saturday night as my son will be with his wife as they await the birth of his son on Monday. I will yet again become a grandfather. Hope one day he will know the difference between a 410 and 360.

"When the green flag drops the bullshit stops" - The 
Great GP

I haven't noticed a lot of blown engines when the 360's run the 1/2 at Manzy and they ran it a lot last year. The problem is the difference in the $$360's from the average 360. The 1/2 mile is a horsepower and finesse track and when some of the best have the best, the average 360 and driver are at a bigger disadvantage. The smaller teams might not like running it to often but trust me, the thrill and all that goes with running that track is a dream come true for a lot of drivers no matter what equipment or money they have.

Kenny

I have always heard that the Manzy half-mile was bigger than the PAS.

"When the green flag drops the bullshit stops" - The 
Great GP

the turns at Manzy are longer and wider than the PAS at the PAS it seems you need alot more HP getting off  and I'm sorry but if you can't tell the difference you need to start paying attention

ROB

Hartford, OH June 17, 2008 Donny Schatz had not driven a 360 sprint car since 1996, but that didn't seem to phase him one bit as he dominated the ASCS Patriots-sanctioned 30-lap Ollie's 360 Challenge Feature at Sharon Speedway. Schatz bested a started studded field of sprint car drivers, making the pass on Bryan Howland on lap 12 and driving away to the win in his Armor All No. 15

ASCS Patriots Results: A-Main (30 Laps)- 1. Donny Schatz (15), 2. Danny Lasoski (33), 3. Jason Meyers (14), 4. Bryan Howland (51), 5. Jason Johnson (41), 6. Terry McCarl (1M), 7. Dale Blaney (6b), 8. Fred Rahmer (51R), 9. Danny Smith (4), 10. Paul McMahan (67), 11. Dave Blaney (23), 12. Ronnie Blair (35), 13. Bobby Breen (9b), 14. Greg Wilson (w20), 15. Justin Barger (32), 16. Trevor Lewis (21), 17. Curtis Evans (1p), 18. Kasey Kahne (91), 19. Tony Stewart (20), 20. Jared Zimbardi (35z), 21. Joey Saldana(9), 22. Stevie Smith (19), 23. Scott Bonnell (3B), 24. Davey Franek (28F), 25. Darren Long (7), 26. Jason Barney (87).

Are these drivers good enough for you?

I've been to Knoxville which is a REAL 1/2 mile last year and saw both the 360 and 410 Nationals. To tell you the the truth, the 360's had more quality cars, and in fact ran both 410's and 360 on their final night the racing was much better with 360's. And even during the actual 410 Nationals, I have to say the 360's are better. Oh you are going to say Perris is different and non wing. True but to be honest sometimes the VRA put on a better show than CRA does at Ventura, it all depends on track conditions, tire choices, etc.

The 360's at Ventura run restrictors if what I hear is correct. So if you took them out, they would run better if on a dyno. The biggest difference between the 360 and 410 is the weight of the motor which slows them down in the handleing, not really in the HP range. Yes the 40 cubic inches, hurts, but I bet the weight hurts more. How much HP do you actually need. I bet the HP in a great 360 without the restrictor is better than what the 410's had 10 years ago. How much HP does a Nascar 355 carb engine make with a carb and gas, on TV they claim 850 or more sometimes.

The VRA 360's are not the same 360 that race at Knoxville, and I am guessing not the same engines that race with USAC 360 Pavement Series on the West Coast. You need to compare apples to apples. I believe they might be alum engines, maybe someone could chime in.

But in all reality, it really doesn't matter what the CRA guys race. On thing is clear, the newer high tech engines with the 40 to 60K price tags have reduced the number of competitors in sprint car racing. 60K you ask, I personally saw that number for a used sprint car engine on a PA auction for a Posse motor. Whether it was true or not, it stirred up a lot of controversy last year in that neck of the woods. And how much do you think Mopar and Chevy is investing in Kahnes and Stewarts engines theses days? Joey Saldana sometimes goes thru 3 engines a night on TV races.

I highly doubt CRA, USAC or whatever org. races at Perris will ever be a 360, so it is a mute point. But I think you would be surprised to find out across the country that 360s are very popular among the fans, racers, and promoters for many reasons. I enjoy both, and will say if given the chance, I would prefer the CRA, but would not hesitate for a VRA show even when CRA is running on the same night, especially these days. Variety is the spice of Life, in the next few weeks I plan on going to the antique bike races at Ventura, UMP Summer of Money Late Model on 4th of July in Tri City IL, and than catch the first week of USAC Indiana Sprint Week starting at the brand new 3/8 high banked track at Lawrenceburg. I bet I have fun at all 3 types of racing, although all 3 are unique, and will have very diverse crowds, and they could careless about 360 or 410 sprint cars. Like I say, just support ANY LOCAL SHORT TRACK and have fun doing it.

Weird, it seems like I have to go to Indiana to watch Cory (& Damion) race.

PS Damion won 2 features last week, Lawrenceburg & Gas City Maybe he's getting used to his Beast Sprint chassis.

It is, and the speeds are much faster as well. You don't pull the kind of bush league stuff that some do at the PAS at Manzy. The cost and danger is much to high.

Kenny