Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: hosehead

To: Steve Rubin (Husets Speedway); Jon McCorkell (Jackson Speedway); Chuck Zitterich (Northern Plains Region); Ralph Capitani (Knoxville Raceway); Bob Allen (Arlington Raceway)

Subject: Upper Midwest Sprint car Series

Promoters,

A small group of racers is attempting to launch a new sprint car series that will further divide our 360 nation, while using "cost savings talk" as a cover. This new series will utilize a brand new set of rules that is significantly different from the rules that already govern your tracks. If this new series is even remotely successful, they may attract existing supporters away from your track.

Not only have you, the Upper Midwest Promoters, failed to find common ground, now a new group wants to re-invent the wheel.

Race teams are tired of changing engines, stacks, wings, tires, etc, in order to compete at area tracks. Apparently this new group doesn't get it. They suggest that their private effort will have little effect on tracks within the Upper Midwest Region.

Our race tracks are connected by the race teams that they share. Your programs can not afford to lose another competitor to a brand new effort. So my question is this: What are you going to do about it?

I want to challenge this important group to campaign against this new effort. Tell race teams why your track is the best and why yet another set of rules is bad for sprint car racing. I also want to challenge this group to continue to seek common ground. A universal tire rule seems like an easy place to start.

Bob Allen, I am convinced that you are position to lose the most, if this new series takes off. Speak out against it. Imagine a situation where you and the promoter from Cedar Lake work together. Maybe one track could run on Friday and one on Saturday!?! Get creative. Convince Cedar Lake that sprint cars are important, but that a new rule package will create an obstacle, add cost, and will further isolate the Twin Cities region.

Jon McCorkell, you're next. Don't just sit idle while you lose more cars! Do something about it! Call a meeting. Talk to "Cappy", visit with Chuck, and call Bob Allen.

If their ideas are inferior or bad for each individual track, the new group will fail all by themselves. (refer to the NST) No need to launch a campaign, if the options are as clear as you say.

Normally, a letter of this type is signed by the author.

8th Annual Northern Ohio Sprint Car Show
March 19-21, 2010
At the Tiffin Mall
in Tiffin, Ohio

I agree Scoop. I am convinced that they will eventually self destruct without intervention, however, the initial launch will be a waste of time and money. I'd like to see this group help avoid that.

I'd also like to see this group (promoters) reach beyond their fences and recognize how even their private efforts can affect the entire community.

Our promoters need to do a better job of working together.

I agree with you Cristy, but I don't think it's going to happen. Promoters working together. What's that? I've never seen that happen and I don't think we're going to see it happen here. By allowing the ASCS type engines in the first couple of seasons, I think they are going to get a false sense of success. When they do go to their one off spec. engine, my thought is that the car count is going to drop. Why not go with ASCS type rules with a little tweaking? Jeff Swindell has been saying it for years. The ASCS rules are good, but possibly harden the RR tire and use a smaller top wing. I'm originally from PA and look at the success the 358's have out there. I hope the new series is a success, so I don't have to drive so far to see a good sprint car show. I just think they are going about the engine rules all wrong. Build a base with what you have around the area and right now nobody has one of their proposed engines. Just a thought from another dumb race fan!

Go get 'em Zoom Zoom!  2009 Knoxville Raceway Champ!

MSS Part II?

One of the organizers recently suggested that if their effort fails, that it will be because the race teams didn't support it. That's a great idea, blame the race teams.

If this new idea fails, it will be because their rule package failed to appeal to the majority.

I love it: Develop an idea that fails to address the real issues, or will make the situation worse, and then blame the competitors for their lack of understanding. Great job guys!

Is this the new cost efficient sprint car class Huset's is gonna add? I also hear they can run those engines some hundred nights before a refresh? If that is true, that right there is simply amazing. I just hope they don't run starters. That would just be plain stupid.

Cappy can talk to the other promoters all he wants. Even if he likes that new class, he has no power to just add them. Everything has to go through the Knoxville Raceway fairboard.

Jeff

Poker Player,

I understand...I was hoping that Cappy would encourage the other promoters to fight against this new series.

The Twin Cities area deserves and I believe can support Sprint Car races on a weekly basis. I just don't think they need a brand new set of rules to get it done.

This new series will not only feature a new set of rules, but it will also feature a reduced purse. It's no wonder the Cedar Lake promoter is on board. The Cedar Lake promoter is used to Mods that race for "free" and invite half their family to join them in the pits. Another business model that's worth fighting against.

Cristy,

Who are you? Do you live in the Minneapolis area? If you want people to take you serious then you should say who you are. Same goes for you pitnotes. But of course neither of you will say who you are. If you have constructive thoughts then go to the meeting this Saturday. Cristy, you have been reading Stan's board so you know where the meeting is.

"The Cedar Lake promoter is used to Mods that race for "free" and invite half their family to join them in the pits. "

Cristy, what do you mean Mods that race for free? I race a Midwest Mod weekly at Cedar Lake Speedway and I have never raced for free. I have raced CLS since 2005 and have never heard of any class racing for free. So please explain what you meant.

"It's no wonder the Cedar Lake promoter is on board."

You obviously don't understand or know the whole situation regarding this new class. I am not going to fight about it online but I do want to clarify somethings that you are saying. The guy behind this idea was a part owner of CLS. He no longer has any ownership of CLS. He is trying to convince tracks to come on board and not the other way around. If you are going to yak online at least know the situation.

pitnotes,

Feel free to write another degrading message about me and then delete it. I am not going to respond to either of you. How can you be vocal about a group that hasn't even had their first meeting yet? Have a wonderful day, Cristy. Oh, and you too, pitnotes.

Chad Patterson

Minneapolis, MN

Chad,

Don't make this issue personal, try to debate the issues, not the person. I appreciate your passion and it's ok to disagree with me. I'm passionate about this issue too! I am convinced that the UMSS is a bad idea, not only for the metro area but for our region. I've explained several times why and how individual track decisions can affect another, and that's why I'm strongly apposed.

I like the idea of sprint car racing in the Twin Cities area, but I disagree with the approach.

When I said the Mods race for "free", I didn't mean literally. I was referring to an inexpensive purse. That means that the race track doesn't pay very much. I am also convinced that the new series will feature a reduced purse, and that's why the idea appeals to the promoter.

I would post my messages on Stan's board, but he has vowed to delete any comments against his beloved series. Stan is so close the the organizers that he's not capable of making an educated decision. If you read closely, both Joe and Chuck have made some very aggressive comments. Comments that make me question their judgment, yet Stan is convinced that their brainstorm is somehow perfect.

Btw, Pitnotes isn't the only one who is against the UMSS. Talk to your financial adviser before you invest. This new series is risky business.

What financial commitment is not risky business now a days? Come on seriously.. quit your bitching on the message board and express your concerns at the meeting, bashing the idea on here is going to get nowhere. I think this is a great idea, get more racers interested in sprint cars and help them get their feet wet and then hopefully send them on their way to a bigger and better class of sprints.

What about the 305 class in Iowa and the 317 class at Jackson, or the IMCA class at Arlington and Redwood Falls? I thought these where suppose to be the economical class in sprint car racing?

Sigh........I was going to bypass this message but being a close, personal friend of the man who is trying to do something good for the sprint car racers and fans in the Twin Cities I simply can't let you belittle him or the others who would like to support this concept. The idea, again, which I know you have read and obviously don't understand, is to give Twin Cities area racers an opportunity to run their car without buying a 20K motor and without driving 200 miles to race it. You have had numerous invitations to attend their first meeting Christy so please do so. If it is that important for you to rally tracks and promoters against this concept it surely must mean enough to you to attend. I am sure there are lots of people who will be there, like Chad, who would love to meet you and hear what you have to say.

Guys,

I GET IT, seriously, I do...I realize that the UMSS organizers are trying to create an affordable, local solution. I understand. I get it! I even believe that the guys that are trying to organize this effort love sprint cars and that they really want to make a difference, their intentions are sincere. I get it!

Here's the deal, I have nothing against these guys, I just happen to disagree with their idea. Stop making this issue personal!

I've tried to point out that race tracks are connected in one way or another. Arlington is only 100 miles from Cedar Lake and both tracks are relatively close to the Twin Cities.

See Fastu's message, we already have several low cost solutions. I am totally convinced that adding another rule package to the mix is a mistake, not only for Cedar Lake, but for the surrounding area. If they get this series off the ground, it is going to be an expensive experiment for some of the participants.

I'd like to hear from some people who aren't "close personal friends" of the organizers.

Stop making this issue personal. If you truly agree with this idea, explain why this idea is so superior. Come up with an argument that is better than, "I'm a close personal friend".

Oh, and one more thing. You can buy a nice ASCS motor for less than $20K. There are engines that cost $20K, but it's not a requirement. To say that all ASCS engines cost $20K is misleading, in fact the majority probably cost much less.

What does one say in a deal like this. First off, Cedar Lake Speedway Promoters has nothing to do with the UMSS. All I can say is we had 3 360 sprint car shows within 140 miles of the Twin Cities in 2008. As of Oct, 19, 2008, We could havea possiblilty of having booked 8 times that amount of shows for 2009 already. We don't need that many. If we have a total of 12-15 shows, along with the other shows (IRA,WoO, Jackson Specials,ASCS) in the area, that will be enough. It will be a while before the final list comes out, we have to figure out what the IRA, Jackpot Junction Tour and Jackson Speedway are doing with their bigger shows. So that we don't book against them. Some of you people think we are out to take over sprintcar racing in the upper midwest, we're not, we're here to fill in where we need to so that we can see sprint cars is this area without having to travel 150-200 miles.

As for those who think the rules are so much different, They are really no different then the rules they are running at Arlington, ASCS motors sleeved down. Yes there is a basic UMSS motor in the works, just like the MSA in Wisc, it worked for them. Why can't it work for this area?

As for the tire, we know what tires is going to be used, that will all be announced at the meeting.

So my suggestion is, come to the meeting, bring your suggestions.

Think about this, 12 - 15 sprint car shows and some non-wing shows with restricted motors around the Twin Cities is better then what we have been having. 1 show that got rained out 2 times this past season.

What stake do you have in all this and why is it such a big deal to you? Maybe you are an owner, promoter or sponsor who feels financially threatened by this? Personal vendetta? Not arguing or taking a shot, I'm just curious... Like Chuck said, there are very few opportunities to run a 360 car around our area and this is a void that they are trying to fill. Arlington and ASCS cars (what few there are) will be legal with minor mods and with whatever tire they decide to go with. One of the big points is that there is interest outside of the current tiny group of people in our area who already race sprint cars and that is where they are hoping to grow. There is no intent to compete with any series or track already running sprint cars. To all you promoters that Cristy mentioned above, I am sure your experience, insight and business savvy would be input much appreciated by a new group trying to promote sprint car racing!

      OK Cristy- Here goes....I live in S.D., and am not a "close personal friend" of anyone involved.  What, exactly, is the problem, with a group of racers trying to make things better for themselves?  Sprint car racing is trying to price itself right out of the market.  If someone doesn't come up with an affordable alternative, the high price of racing will kill the sport.  I bet a lot of people tried to squash the WoO before it got on it's feet.

     Isn't this similar to how IMCA started in 1979?  Someone wanted to try something different.  They didn't do to bad by the sport.  Why despise someone who is trying something different?

     How can you say "stop making this personal", if you started a thread, asking promoters to kill something that hasn't even been started yet?  Do you ask that no more restaurants be built in your state, because you already have many?

     If they fail, they fail.  This is America.  You are allowed to fail, but you are also allowed to try.

     "$20,000 engines":  It doesn't matter what that magic number is actually.  Right now, the cost to race a sprintcar seems to be almost too high to be supported at a local level.  That, is what these people seem to be trying to work on.

Murphy,

I appreciate your response. It's nice to hear from someone who isn't emotionally involved!

I like the idea of affordable sprint car racing in the Twin Cities Metro area, and I agree, sprint car racing is expensive. So expensive, that not everyone can afford to do it. In fact, the concern over the cost to compete is an issue that we all can agree on. We all want cheap, competitive sprint cars.

I want affordable sprint car racing too, but I disagree with their approach. That's the difference. Like I said earlier, I understand what this group hopes to accomplish, yet I disagree with their proposed solutions.

Their idea is risky. Race teams who have never raced sprint cars will be forced to make a significant investment and if the UMSS doesn't survive, they will be stuck with an engine that will be illegal at other area tracks, and will be difficult to sell. Race teams will shoulder most of the burden and most of the risk.

I also believe that their are other low-cost solutions already in place. I don't understand why this group has decided to create something different. You mentioned IMCA (who I hate btw), so why not partner with Arlington.

Here's the deal. This idea isn't strong enough to stand alone.

When I say this issue isn't personal, I mean that I have nothing against the individuals who are working to promote this new idea. I don't hate them, or wish them harm. I just simply disagree with their strategy. That's it, that's all, no hidden agendas, nothing personal.

I'd like to hear from Kelly Wesmar, Justin Zoch, Jon McCorkell, and others. I'd also like to hear from more 360 teams. What are your thoughts about a new set of rules? Will you add UMSS events to your schedule?

Two questions. Where are you located and are you coming to the meeting? Somebody needs to buy you a beer because you're way too worked up about this.

The "Settlement" 1.5 miles north of Somerset, Wisconsin, next Saturday Ocbtober 25th at 11:30am. Please RSVP to ChuckP so they know how many people will be there. A cold beer will be waiting for Christy.

Stan Meissner (Check out the photo gallery and blog)

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