Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

do you think it would be a good idea not to have a wing rule. would it help out the racing. and what would most of the guys do with out a wing rule. and what about a tire rule.

IMO, you will see more blow out races once these rules are implemented. Plus you will see a lot more wrecks too. There are a lot of drivers out there that depend on the car being locked down, take that away and there will be some folks geting a little wild.

Member of this message board since 1997

Oh, man... THIS is gonna get ugly!

no wing would mean less motor harder tire would mean less motor lets put the driver back in the car not saying the winged drivers can't drive but if you ever seen a non winged race it is a whole different ball game.

LETS RACE BOYS

I really doubt that there will be "a lot more" wrecks with a more restricted wing rule.

My thinking is that most of the several thousand crashes I have seen are caused by either one driver driving over another or a mechanical failure.

One way or the other, the drivers will learn to adjust their driving style with the changes in rules.

Following the theory another step, a non wing car should be in an accident while still attached to the trailer if the more accidents part were to be true.

Over the years, everything you mention Pat WAS state of the art, and an unhooked race car provided MUCH more entertainment than the high speed freight trains of today.

I do agree about the getting a little wild part, but I have seen wild before.

I doubt that not many people were more wild than Doug Wolfgang as a rookie (well OK there was Daniel "The master of disaster" Coggshell and Hawkeye "put the wheels on top" Strobel also I guess).

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This is gonna be worse than all the WoO/NST pissin' matches on this board... (but THEY pissed WITH wings).

(Excerpts taken from Doug Auld column "Unhook 'em" in December 2006 SprintCar & Midget)

...(Ben) Geisler first announced publicly at the recent season-ending World of Outlaws banquet in Las Vegas that there will likely be a tire rule for 2007.

When I followed up with Geisler he elaborated. "I guess the net of it is that we've gone through the process of testing wings and tires this year. We feel like there's certainly something to be gained in the wing department, but obviously it's a more disruptive change. We need to plan that one out a little further. That's an announcement we'd need to make mid-season so that the guys can plan accordingly as they get through the year.

"And, the other piece of it is: as we've gone through this process and talked to a lot of local drivers, crew chiefs, chassis builders, engine builders, you name it, the thing that appears to have changed the most in the past ten years is the tire. I mean, kudos to Hoosier, they built a great tire. It's a fast tire. It does everything that they want it to do and that the racers were asking. On the flipside, it's really the thing that is driving a lot of the horsepower chase...

...According to Geisler, the response from the Outlaw regulars has been very positive. "I've spoken with probably fourteen of the sixteen drivers that raced with us consistently this year, and of those fourteen, I think thirteen of them are hounding us to do it. The feedback from the racers in general - whether it be local racers, regional racers, national racers - has been very positive, 'cause they feel that it's gonna put some of this back in the racer's hands. And also will make their lives easier as well. The reception has been very positive across the board. Because, it's the part of the racecar that's changed the most over the past ten years."

It seems simple. Fifteen years ago, we didn't talk about sprint cars being too locked down, or drivers with limited ability and high-dollar equipment outrunning legends. What's changed? Primarily, the tires. So why wouldn't we change it back? Kudos to DIRT. -Doug Auld

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Lets see we took the wicker bill away it was going to slow everyone down but the track record is now a half second faster at Knoxville.  Like every rule all it does is cost the racer money. 

Not only has the weight rule saved some money, it has probably saved a few lives as well. Tires are thrown away after a single race, and the cars themselves haven't changed much over the past fifteen years even though the tires have. Not much of a gamble as far as rule changes go. In fact, a tire rule will probably end up being the single most cost effective rule change that will ever come down the pike.

DON OTT (Full-Throttle Racing Show)

John Katich: Is there anything you can do to control engine cost?

Don Ott: "Well, that is a big conversation everybody would like to have. ...Right now, we can use more and more power because the Hoosier tires got the cars so locked down. To me the cars have been the same for years and years. ...But these tires got 'em so locked down that we can just pour on more and more power and hook it to the ground. ...Where three ...four years ago before Hoosier got going again, we had different type tires and they weren't as good. I think the tires are the issue because if you would slow the cars down with the tires you wouldn't need all the power."

John Katich: What does the average Don Ott racing engine dyno at now?

Don Ott: "I would say the average Don Ott engine of 2004 was probably 850s somewhere. The new ones... I just dynoed one today that's in the 870s. I built one for Fred to run Knoxville and some other races that makes over 900. So, it's possible to make 'em over 900 ...I never believed it 5 years ago, but I believe it today."

John Katich: And the key is getting them to hook up though, with the tires and whatnot...?

Don Ott: "Yeah, that's the whole thing and, with today's tires, they can do it."

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Late Model driver Brian Birkhoffer won 5 $10,000 to win A-mains on 1 rt rear tire. I can not think any Sprint car owner would not like to be able to do that. If a tire rule makes them a little harder to drive, then the best driver would win. I used to watch the Extreme late model series on TV and they put on some good shows, were able to run top & bottom, on those hard tires.

Bottom line is, attendance is down. If something is not done to put "RACING" back in sprint car racing, the downward trend will continue. There are some fans who go for just the sheer speed of winged sprints. But a lot more want to see passing.

Back in the days of the unlimited wedge late models the track owners , series promoters , and drivers seen that they were about to take the late models to an early grave.

They were smart enough to do what ever it took to keep the late models alive and not listen to the whims of a few "name" drivers unlike the sprint car world that revolves around a few "name" drivers.

You can say what ever you want about the "taxi cabs" , "door slammers" , "lead sleds" , or what ever else you want to call them but when it comes to car counts be it local , regional , or national they blow the sprint cars out of the water so they must be doing something right.

Maybe its time for the sprint car drivers , track owners , and series owners to check there pride at the gate and say the heck with the select few and do what they need to do to save sprint car racing because its been going down that same road the late models were and everyones afraid to do anything to stop it.....................................

I agree with everything that has been said, but I think the fact that Late models don't wreck as much due to not being open wheeled. When you spin out a late model, and then tbone, the accident doesn't always total a car. With sprin cars, almost every time that a car flips its out for the night, yes there are times when a wing is all a car needs, but as soon as it starts flipping it is done. With sprint cars, and having the danger of flipping with more accidents, I see harder tires, and being hooked up less causing more large scale accidents, and possibly more injuries.

I agree that sprint car racing still isn't as popular, and passing is becoming less and less, and maybe a tire rule is what needs to happen. I just see there being more huge accidents, and injuries with them.

.

An average lap at the greed would be about 30 seconds. Driver would have time to check his email while racing.

I watch the Cedar Lake weekly Lake Late Model racing when there's not a Sprint special somewhere nearby. Your point about Late Models getting in a cruncher and the car being able to continue to race is well taken. Most of the time with the Late Models they can stop on the frontstretch, pull the tin off the tires and continue. Afterwards they can usually rivet some sheet metal to the body, bang it out with a hammer and make the call for the next race. Repair costs at the track are minimal in those cases, a cleaner job with graphics, etc can be done later at the shop. Most of the sheet metal is hand fabricted except for the nose piece but even replacing a nose piece is a helluva lot cheaper than a Sprint Car wing.

On the other hand, if a Sprint goes over even if no bolt on parts are damaged and the car is fit to push off and race you're still looking at $1,000 worth of wings and mounting hardware. I don't know the going rate on wings and hardware but a grand is probably a safe ballpark figure to start with. When you're running a budget 360 deal that only pays $1,000 to win and you've already paid the entry fee, bought your crew passes and picked up some tires, well, you do the math. Cedar Lake's DTRA Late Models are essentially the same as Wissota's, a steel block 360 ci class. One guy who runs there every week, Mike Nutzmann, said that he can get 30 shows out of his motors before a refresh and still be competitive. I don't think a 360 Sprint hooked up with a wing and soft tires is going to put 30 shows on a motor and still be a front runner but I don't crew a car or work on motors so maybe I'm wrong.

Overall I think it's a combination of things. The big wings hooking them up and the soft tires that are making it such an expensive class. The wings have been popular with the younger fans because they have never known anything else but the same thing (wings) that increased the popularity in my mind is now hurting the racing. If they ran non-wing racing or Midgets somewhere up here in Minnesota I'd be watching a lot less winged racing. We had a weekly non-wing track right in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area up to 1979 so Sprint fans who were around in those days still miss them. A lof of us long time fans still travel to Beaver Dam for USAC, Indiana Speedweeks and Sun Prairie for an annual non-wing fix. Personally I'd like to see them take the wings off of our local 360's. It would make for better racing and lower the costs.

Stan Meissner

what about a one race rr tire rule. and take some wing angle out.

but you gotta remember Stan, the LM's are one ugly monstrosity.

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101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

The one race rule is great, until somone "blows" a tire between races, and HAS to put on a new one to race. It doesn't work. As far as the wing angle, I dont seee that being a huge deal, its the dish, I see a lof of cars at faster places with little or no wing angle. I think the actual construction of the wings and the dish, and size is still the biggest factor.

.

Late Models are the most popular class up here in Minnesota and western Wisconsin nodust. Those 5 hour trips to Knoxville are far and few between so the local Sprint specials and an occasional Late Model race keep me going.

Stan Meissner

The LM are big down here also, BUT it is my thought that Knoxville is the Sprint Car Capitol of the World, and should remain that way.

With that being said, the Sprints have put on crappy shows most of the past 5 years due to track conditions caused by the rules for the cars.

It does not take a rocket engineer to see that the fans do NOT like waiting an hour after the scheduled starting time to watch a locked down, seldom passing, follow the leader show.

I would like to see the cars unhook, the track not take rubber and KEEP the track Sprints only, but we both know that Late Models are the coming thing, I will NOT be part of it when it takes over Knoxville however.

There are much more interesting venues to spend my entertainment dollars an hours at that watching a bunch of barndoors in a hurricane.

I guess I am becoming a grumpy old man as I watch my favorite venue lose its luster.

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Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

It amazes me that if cars are unhooked more, people get the idea that there will all of a sudden be chaos, "causing more large scale accidents, and possibly more injuries" Do you see large large scale accidents and more injuries now when tracks get dry/slick?

Are you assuming that all drivers are retarded and just keep the pedal to the floor regardless of traction?

Do drivers come in after a crash and say "Wow, even though it's blowing dust, I thought I would be just as locked down as I was in hot laps....who would have guessed I'd be loose?"

In case you have never witnessed a sprint car race, track conditions and, as a result, the handling of the cars, changes drastically throughout the night. Many times in the feature alone. That is what makes Sprint Car racing exciting.

If a car looses grip, the driver slows down to a speed at which he/she can maintain control. The cars do not become wildly out of control.