Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

And I (being the great and bored student that I am) decided to crunch a few #'s and figure this out. Maybe a waste of time? Maybe shows a lot more!

Here are some boring calculations, but interesting #'s. . .bare with me

(CPI is the Consumer Price Index, it's the government average to find out how much things are worth, done monthly for years)

CPI in June 1987 was 113.5
CPI in June 2006 was 202.9

Given thoes #'s the price index factor is 1.787

410ci Wesmar in 1987 was 20,000
410ci Wesmar in 2006 was 45,000

A 45,000 engine in 87 would have cost 25,172. . .
So today that same engine, given inflation should be 35,753, only using dollars.. .not taking into account that horsepower is what you are paying for...............

If you are paying per horsepower:

You got around $30 a horse in 1987, so today would be $53 per horse
BUT today we are getting $51 per horse.

So all in all :engines are about the same price, and cheaper per horsepower for a 410, so to say that the proce of engines is getting out of control is a rediculous statement from here on out in this board.

.

speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

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nice research. I guess I could defend the Engine builders by saying that engines are made a little different than then. Lighter and faster. New age parts but i am on your side, 410 engine cost is one reason 410 racing is fighting to live.

I still think we could get 28 out there with the car he is racing right now and he would kill any 410...isn't that right Snow White 28?

-----------------------------------------------------
A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.

Maybe you can do some research as to why the Buckeyes and Wolverines should play for the BCS...

That was a helluva game, too bad for the helmet to helmet that resulted in a first down...

Go Buckeyes!!!

Outlaw engines initially took about a $5k cut in price with the advent of the weight rule. Now as F-1 technology is filtering down through NASCAR to the sprint cars they are starting to escalate rapidly again. Flyweight assemblies and valve train components in "R&D" engines have started to go through the roof over around the past 18 months. The Unified Sprint Car Summit is better late than never.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

If wesmar can get me the #'s on the initial price cut of $5k, and actual costs of engines for say. . the last 15 years, I can see in a graph what the CPI vs sprint car engines of the big teams really are doing right now. . . .can I get thoes Wesmar??

.

I doubt there are such numbers CMICamfone...lol. Initially when the weight rule came around many teams rightfully didn't think they needed ultra-light non-rotating/non-reciprocating pieces like rocker bars, etc, anymore... which is still the case for most teams. But the onslaught of $7,500+ cranks, flyweight pistons and wrist pins, etc, and other F-1/NASCAR high rpm technologies at the top of the sprint car food chain is starting to more than make up for any savings the weight rule initially brought about. As rpm and horsepower goes up with price, races between rebuilds also keeps going down as well. That's where the real cost increase has come over the years. Engines last much less longer than they used to... cost today is actually exponentially more. Jim Nace gives a pretty good feel for how much engine price has escalated over the decades in his PA Open Wheel interview.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Thats a good point about rebuilding and such, I guess that isn't taken into account at all. I can see how that is a ver valid point, and that would be much harder to figure out because every team does things differently. I didn't do this as an argument or anything, just to answer a question I had to myself about engine prices and figured other people might have an opinion as well. I guess I was wrong in saying that costs are down, because rebuild costs weren't in that. . . oh well. . .

.

Most people don't think about that angle CMI... which is the way it should be...lol. The only reason it’s even at the forefront is because things have gotten way out of hand. If you’re a gear head like me and are interested in where racing technology is headed I highly recommend the book Ferrari Formula 1: Under the Skin of the Championship-Winning F1-2000 if you can get your hands on a copy. The technology in the book is six years old, but it is just unreal the length that can be gone to with unlimited budget constraints. Very interesting read if you enjoy the technical side of racing.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

thats great.. no lets do the research on the payouts !!! and the admission prices....

"Engines last much less longer than they used to..."

What engines are you talking about cause I want those ones

-----------------------------------------------------
A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.

The Outlaws must pay pretty good... they've got 25 cars vying for 20 slots...lol. Meanwhile back on the farm we lose more and more established race teams. The Unified Sprint Car Summit couldn't come at a better time for local race fans, race teams and promoters.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

cubic: to provide comparable info in the spirit of the original post, you should say "over half of the Mean 15 could not make the A Main in 2006, let's see if they get any better or any worse with the NST field fillers in 2007.

my money says: 2007 Grove Open will have MORE than 4 WoO drivers qualify for the A main...and this will be due to the individual efforts of marquis name drivers...and have little or nothing to do with the organization that balked at checking fuel in 2006...until of course, video evidence caused some embarassment....OOOOPPPPPSSS!

but then again, that would undermine your allegiance to the mighty plantation owner...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

"but then again, that would undermine your allegiance to the mighty plantation owner..."

BRR, the battle hopefully will be over in about another month as far as the Unified Sprint Car Summit goes, how long have I been fighting for some help? Since the spring of '04 I believe? Cut me a little bit of slack. It's not my fault you keep picking the losing side all the time...lol. As far as where my allegiance lies it has always been with local racing. Along those same lines so we have some sort of understanding, I've been pulling for Tony Stewart to buy Williams Grove all year since it has been rumored to be on the auctioning block... I don't want someone like Dirt MotorSport's to end up with it anymore than you do. Least of two evils is how I vote. It's all shades of gray...except for Rahmer kicking the living crap out of Esh next year at Lincoln...that's black and white...lol. I love to hate the Outlaws as much as you do. I just hated the NST more.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Less longer ? Jackhole you hillbilly

i remain on the winning side..."POSSE", you might want to check your meds and make sure you didn't get MSPNs bottle of pain killing potions by mistake.

i simply prefered the NST over the WoO as the lesser evil because they were comprised of the marquis drivers, who wanted free of the financial disaster that still lies ahead.

most humorous is your position of claiming to support POSSE but are always looking outside the area for some group or organization to provide you aid and comfort in your obvious doubt about the strength of our racing scene. just because Rahmer changed rides and had a mediocre year...does not mean the world is coming to an end.

Rahmer will have something to prove without a doubt, but it will take a special guy to "kick the crap" out of the Hammer! believe what you want, i am sure Rahmer can step it up...but the smart money is on the next generation of racers as the torches have been in a preiod of passage over the last 3 years...i refer to it as FOAW...maybe you have heard of this term. they will be back next year and will continue to claim a bigger share of the purses as demostrated over recent seasons.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

You guys do this every other post,can you keep this outta this post. . . it had nothing to do with this, and this bickering is rediculous. Start a new topic called the forever war "Posse vs the world". . thanks

.

I believe my campaign in '04 was at the local level and at every turn I was told nothing will ever change until the circus does. A lot of truth in the statement, as not only does it look like it will take all the powerhouses (LOCAL and national) in the sport working together to get even the slightest headway accomplished, your "marquis drivers" had to excommunicate themselves before even simple dialog could get started. They turned out to be their own worst enemies at ever turn of this whole ordeal, thankfully it looks like the "powers that be" will be able to take them over their knee in the end. Let me know when your FOAW 30 car gets enough balls to run Knoxville instead of having to "cherrypick" the Lincoln Championship while the rest of the big dogs are away...lol.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

and ignore the fact that "increased competition" drives the cost of racing?

ok, but you eventually have to stop ignoring what is actually happening on the track during the actual event and move beyond mathmatical exercises inassigning blame to inflation, cost of living, pricey motors, ldreams of narrow tires .etc,

try this equation:

1) how many teams TT'd within a half second of each other at the typical event in 1987?

2) how many teams TT'd within a half second of each other at the typical event in 2006?

3) write both numbers in separate columns on a piece of paper

4) subtract the number of eggs in your referigerator today from each column

5) which number is higher?

6) if you have trouble reconciling the math, simply make an omelet and try again...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

One thing you haven't taken into account.

The R&D put in to get more HP out of the same cubic inch engine.

Member of this message board since 1997