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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: Lernerville Sprint Boycott
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Kingpin2014
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May 21, 2019 at 02:30:48 PM
Joined: 06/20/2017
Posts: 174
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This got a lot of traction over the weekend on social media. A lot of the locals banded together and are boycotting Lernerville due to the low purse (1400 to win, 175 to start according to the post going around). They went from 26 cars opening night to 11 last week and only 6 finished the feature. This has been bubbling for awhile now especially since Sharon started paying 3k to win most weeks (and they are getting full support, 33 cars last weekend). 



HoldenCaulfield
May 21, 2019 at 03:58:07 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 1582
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Can't blame them. That's a low purse for 360's, ridiculous for 410's. Lernerville is a great track, hope they get the purse updated to the 21st century.



Murphy
May 21, 2019 at 04:04:59 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1261
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Reply to:
Posted By: Kingpin2014 on May 21 2019 at 02:30:48 PM

This got a lot of traction over the weekend on social media. A lot of the locals banded together and are boycotting Lernerville due to the low purse (1400 to win, 175 to start according to the post going around). They went from 26 cars opening night to 11 last week and only 6 finished the feature. This has been bubbling for awhile now especially since Sharon started paying 3k to win most weeks (and they are getting full support, 33 cars last weekend). 



.........traction on social media.......
..........viral video...........
..........social media influencer.........

      Used to be that people voted with their feet when they didn't like how a business operated. Now they play on their phones and bitch like a bunch of junior high girls about anything and everything. Why don't they just take the next logical step and try to use social media to shut the place down? Then they can sit and play with their phones and bitch about not having local racing?

     Oh, and GET OFF MY LAWN!!!



Kingpin2014
MyWebsite
May 21, 2019 at 04:13:39 PM
Joined: 06/20/2017
Posts: 174
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on May 21 2019 at 04:04:59 PM

.........traction on social media.......
..........viral video...........
..........social media influencer.........

      Used to be that people voted with their feet when they didn't like how a business operated. Now they play on their phones and bitch like a bunch of junior high girls about anything and everything. Why don't they just take the next logical step and try to use social media to shut the place down? Then they can sit and play with their phones and bitch about not having local racing?

     Oh, and GET OFF MY LAWN!!!



Uh they did that as well, hence the drop from 26 to 11 cars.



onporch
May 21, 2019 at 04:21:16 PM
Joined: 02/12/2017
Posts: 107
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Posted By: Kingpin2014 on May 21 2019 at 04:13:39 PM

Uh they did that as well, hence the drop from 26 to 11 cars.



They voted with their tires.



racefanigan
May 21, 2019 at 04:23:02 PM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 204
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Boy, they would sure hate running Grand Forks for $1200 to win weekly. 

 



Murphy
May 21, 2019 at 04:49:58 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1261
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Posted By: racefanigan on May 21 2019 at 04:23:02 PM

Boy, they would sure hate running Grand Forks for $1200 to win weekly. 

 



True. I bet the folks around Lernerville boycott Grand Forks now too! ;)



HoldenCaulfield
May 21, 2019 at 05:56:04 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 1582
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Posted By: onporch on May 21 2019 at 04:21:16 PM

They voted with their tires.



Sure did!



Canucklehead
May 21, 2019 at 06:22:22 PM
Joined: 12/14/2004
Posts: 637
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Posted By: racefanigan on May 21 2019 at 04:23:02 PM

Boy, they would sure hate running Grand Forks for $1200 to win weekly. 

 



No other Sprint car track within 400 miles. Probably why they can get away with a low payout


Knoxville Natioanls attendee since '95
Favorite Tracks...River Cities, Knoxville, Cedar Lake
Favorite Drivers...S.Kinser, T.Kaeding, K.Madsen, S.Smith
Proud Canadian 

BillV99
MyWebsite
May 21, 2019 at 07:52:49 PM
Joined: 04/01/2007
Posts: 169
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This message was edited on May 21, 2019 at 07:53:36 PM by BillV99

I have nothing new to add as far as opinion, as I definitely can see both sides of the argument.  Lernerville's claim to fame, is they are the only track that has 3 headlning divisions, as a regular show consists of 410 sprints, Late Models, and Big Block Modifieds.  They typically get a really good Friday night crowd for the regular shows.  So if you take in consideration of the 'total' purse Lernerville payous out, it's very high.

Lernerville is definitely in between a rock and a hard place.  I don;t think they can raise the purse for Sprints, but not the other headlining divisions.  Do they eliminate a class to raise purse for others, but remove what makes Lernerville special?  I sure hope not, as I consider Lernerville my home track, and because of it, I love all 3 classesBut there was some posts comparing Lernerville's purse to other tracks, so let me throw some numbers around here, and do a real comparison.

Lernerville, as far as I know, as they do not adveretise the purse(I have seen it laying at the pit table), is a total of $9000 (per a 20 car field) with 1300 to win, 200 to start.  I believe the LMs and Mods are similar.  So if you take into account the stocks also, the total purse has got to be close to $30,000.  That figure is probably as high as any track in the country for a regular show.  Knoxville,IA is probably the highest at 40,825 (26500 410s, 10,400 360s, 3925 305s)

Now, to the comparison.  As some tracks start different number of cars, I base these numbers off of a 24 car field for comparison reasons.

(Track, total purse, winner purse, last place)

Lernerville, 9800, 1300, 200
Sharon, 11,400, 3000, 250
(note, most of the Sharon's purse compared to Lernerville is to the winner, among others, 6th and 10th place pay more at Lernerville, but Sharon pays a whole 50 more to start. So drivers boycotting Lernerville but going to Sharon, are doing it to only benefit the winner, not anyone else throughout the field)

Knoxville,IA, 26,500, 4000, 500
Williams Grove, 19,910, 3600, 315
Port Royal, 19,000, 3600, 350
Lincoln, 16,750, 3500, 350
Attica,OH/Fremont,OH, 13,580, 3000, 300
Wayne County,OH,  9470, 2000, 200
Butler,MI, 6500, 1000, 150

 

Bill

SprintCarRatings.com

 



Kingpin2014
MyWebsite
May 21, 2019 at 08:25:21 PM
Joined: 06/20/2017
Posts: 174
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This message was edited on May 21, 2019 at 09:30:26 PM by Kingpin2014
Reply to:
Posted By: BillV99 on May 21 2019 at 07:52:49 PM

I have nothing new to add as far as opinion, as I definitely can see both sides of the argument.  Lernerville's claim to fame, is they are the only track that has 3 headlning divisions, as a regular show consists of 410 sprints, Late Models, and Big Block Modifieds.  They typically get a really good Friday night crowd for the regular shows.  So if you take in consideration of the 'total' purse Lernerville payous out, it's very high.

Lernerville is definitely in between a rock and a hard place.  I don;t think they can raise the purse for Sprints, but not the other headlining divisions.  Do they eliminate a class to raise purse for others, but remove what makes Lernerville special?  I sure hope not, as I consider Lernerville my home track, and because of it, I love all 3 classesBut there was some posts comparing Lernerville's purse to other tracks, so let me throw some numbers around here, and do a real comparison.

Lernerville, as far as I know, as they do not adveretise the purse(I have seen it laying at the pit table), is a total of $9000 (per a 20 car field) with 1300 to win, 200 to start.  I believe the LMs and Mods are similar.  So if you take into account the stocks also, the total purse has got to be close to $30,000.  That figure is probably as high as any track in the country for a regular show.  Knoxville,IA is probably the highest at 40,825 (26500 410s, 10,400 360s, 3925 305s)

Now, to the comparison.  As some tracks start different number of cars, I base these numbers off of a 24 car field for comparison reasons.

(Track, total purse, winner purse, last place)

Lernerville, 9800, 1300, 200
Sharon, 11,400, 3000, 250
(note, most of the Sharon's purse compared to Lernerville is to the winner, among others, 6th and 10th place pay more at Lernerville, but Sharon pays a whole 50 more to start. So drivers boycotting Lernerville but going to Sharon, are doing it to only benefit the winner, not anyone else throughout the field)

Knoxville,IA, 26,500, 4000, 500
Williams Grove, 19,910, 3600, 315
Port Royal, 19,000, 3600, 350
Lincoln, 16,750, 3500, 350
Attica,OH/Fremont,OH, 13,580, 3000, 300
Wayne County,OH,  9470, 2000, 200
Butler,MI, 6500, 1000, 150

 

Bill

SprintCarRatings.com

 



Your numbers for payout do not match what the drivers are saying the payout is. They posted it as 1400 to win, 175 to start and a total of $7600. Now whether that is correct or not who knows since Lernerville doesn’t post the purse.

 

As for total payout among all divisions Lernerville might be competitive, but if you’re a sprint or late model driver that means nothing to you. 

 

Im sure Lernerville would love to keep all 3 divisions, and as a fan i love to see all 3,  but the LM car count has reflected the purse for a few years now. If the sprints stop coming how great is it to watch 11 sprints and 11 LM (actual counts last week) and most of those are back markers. The mods pulled a whooping 15. 

 

Their solution is either raise admission to raise purse, and definitely see some pushback from fans as it’s already $15 to get in, cut a division and likely see some angry fans, or keep going as is and get pushback from drivers. Definitely correct in its a rock and a hard place. 



revjimk
May 21, 2019 at 08:51:35 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 4637
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Reply to:
Posted By: BillV99 on May 21 2019 at 07:52:49 PM

I have nothing new to add as far as opinion, as I definitely can see both sides of the argument.  Lernerville's claim to fame, is they are the only track that has 3 headlning divisions, as a regular show consists of 410 sprints, Late Models, and Big Block Modifieds.  They typically get a really good Friday night crowd for the regular shows.  So if you take in consideration of the 'total' purse Lernerville payous out, it's very high.

Lernerville is definitely in between a rock and a hard place.  I don;t think they can raise the purse for Sprints, but not the other headlining divisions.  Do they eliminate a class to raise purse for others, but remove what makes Lernerville special?  I sure hope not, as I consider Lernerville my home track, and because of it, I love all 3 classesBut there was some posts comparing Lernerville's purse to other tracks, so let me throw some numbers around here, and do a real comparison.

Lernerville, as far as I know, as they do not adveretise the purse(I have seen it laying at the pit table), is a total of $9000 (per a 20 car field) with 1300 to win, 200 to start.  I believe the LMs and Mods are similar.  So if you take into account the stocks also, the total purse has got to be close to $30,000.  That figure is probably as high as any track in the country for a regular show.  Knoxville,IA is probably the highest at 40,825 (26500 410s, 10,400 360s, 3925 305s)

Now, to the comparison.  As some tracks start different number of cars, I base these numbers off of a 24 car field for comparison reasons.

(Track, total purse, winner purse, last place)

Lernerville, 9800, 1300, 200
Sharon, 11,400, 3000, 250
(note, most of the Sharon's purse compared to Lernerville is to the winner, among others, 6th and 10th place pay more at Lernerville, but Sharon pays a whole 50 more to start. So drivers boycotting Lernerville but going to Sharon, are doing it to only benefit the winner, not anyone else throughout the field)

Knoxville,IA, 26,500, 4000, 500
Williams Grove, 19,910, 3600, 315
Port Royal, 19,000, 3600, 350
Lincoln, 16,750, 3500, 350
Attica,OH/Fremont,OH, 13,580, 3000, 300
Wayne County,OH,  9470, 2000, 200
Butler,MI, 6500, 1000, 150

 

Bill

SprintCarRatings.com

 



"Lernerville is definitely in between a rock & a hard place"... yep

I don't envy promoters OR racers in this situation

Only way out I can see is raising admission price?



tenter
May 22, 2019 at 12:34:12 AM
Joined: 07/16/2008
Posts: 650
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Port's regular show of 410s, LM, and 358 LM for a $15 general addmission pays:

410 - $19000 (3600 - 350)

LM - $11340 (2000 -225)

358 LM - $4650 (800 - 100)

Total = $34990



alum.427
May 22, 2019 at 06:35:16 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 614
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Lernerville has a lot more problems. They are the only track that you have to run a spec tire on slm. They gave the shafts to there weekly b main sportsman division 2 yrs ago. Ya wanna no how much back gate they lost on that deal ? It could have covered a purse increase easily . 

The Matus clan is supposedly behind this uproar. The same ones that went all star racing and rarely qualified for a show. They never tow to port royal because tow money won't cover there diesel fuel for the rig. 



FORD97
May 22, 2019 at 08:38:42 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1344
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on May 21 2019 at 04:04:59 PM

.........traction on social media.......
..........viral video...........
..........social media influencer.........

      Used to be that people voted with their feet when they didn't like how a business operated. Now they play on their phones and bitch like a bunch of junior high girls about anything and everything. Why don't they just take the next logical step and try to use social media to shut the place down? Then they can sit and play with their phones and bitch about not having local racing?

     Oh, and GET OFF MY LAWN!!!



Well, they could always hope some predatory lending mogul buys the place, brings the purse up and kicks sand in the face of every other track in the area.


Unless I know you, I don't care what you think.

willf270
MyWebsite
May 22, 2019 at 08:51:20 AM
Joined: 03/26/2014
Posts: 102
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Reply to:
Posted By: Kingpin2014 on May 21 2019 at 02:30:48 PM

This got a lot of traction over the weekend on social media. A lot of the locals banded together and are boycotting Lernerville due to the low purse (1400 to win, 175 to start according to the post going around). They went from 26 cars opening night to 11 last week and only 6 finished the feature. This has been bubbling for awhile now especially since Sharon started paying 3k to win most weeks (and they are getting full support, 33 cars last weekend). 



Just check what the New York  tracks pay to win  Big Block modifieds and 360-410 sprints for weekly shows, it's very low . I don't know why more guys from there dont run Big Diamond, Grandview for modifieds or Williams Grove,  Lincoln or Port Royal?



91RI
May 22, 2019 at 10:06:00 AM
Joined: 03/01/2005
Posts: 223
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This message was edited on May 22, 2019 at 03:27:38 PM by 91RI
Reply to:
Posted By: willf270 on May 22 2019 at 08:51:20 AM

Just check what the New York  tracks pay to win  Big Block modifieds and 360-410 sprints for weekly shows, it's very low . I don't know why more guys from there dont run Big Diamond, Grandview for modifieds or Williams Grove,  Lincoln or Port Royal?



The first one I found was for Fonda speedway.  Here is a link: http://raceproweekly.com/rpw/2018/10/modified-purse-structure-at-fonda-speedway-for-2019-released/.   I think that is quite a bit better than what the Lernerville guys are racing for.  Also there are no weekly sprint shows that I know of in NY, either it's Outlaws, All Stars, ESS or Patriots.  The ESS show are all at least 2,000 to win and 300 to start, and the Patriots are at least 2,000 to win, I don't know what their start money is.



BillV99
MyWebsite
May 22, 2019 at 10:26:21 AM
Joined: 04/01/2007
Posts: 169
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This message was edited on May 22, 2019 at 10:27:09 AM by BillV99

If you want to talk about low purses, look at the non-wing purses in Indiana...

(I base these numbers off of a 24 car field for comparison reasons)
(Track, total purse, winner purse, last place)
Bloomington, 9175, 1500, 225
Lawrenceburg, 9175, 1500, 225
Gas City, 8505, 1500, 200
Kokomo, 8025, 1400, 155
Lincoln Park, 7600, 1400, 200

Bill
SprintCarRatings.com

 



racefanigan
May 22, 2019 at 10:33:28 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 204
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This message was edited on May 22, 2019 at 10:35:21 AM by racefanigan

Let me start by clarifying, that my previous post was in no way a slam to Grand Forks, Just shedding light on the fact that there is another track racing for less than what Lernerville is, and I can't recall any protesting about it.

I guess the way I see it, is over half of the field is protesting, but realistically what more will most of them get out of it? IF they paid $3000 to win, $2000 for second, then went with their normal $1400 or $1300 payout on back with $250 to start, They may get all those cars back, and likely plus a couple good cars. Realistically, (and literally) most of those guys would be racing for the same purse anyway, plus and extra $75 at theback of the field.

I get the premise of protesting, as the puse is low, and guys have the chance to win more money if they finish in the first two spots, but they will get the same money if they finish 10th than they did if they finish 8th before. With 15 guys protesting, most will not regularly reap any benefit of missing 1-2 (or possibly more) weeks of racing.



BillV99
MyWebsite
May 22, 2019 at 10:45:08 AM
Joined: 04/01/2007
Posts: 169
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This message was edited on May 22, 2019 at 10:45:24 AM by BillV99

Another factor is western PA has seen a decline of tracks running 410s.  At one point, you had Lernerville Fri, Sharon and Mercer Sat, and TriCity on Sunday.

TriCity has closed (ran some races in '18 and '17).  Mercer has no 410s on the schedule this year.  Sharon has stepped up this year with 9 races (2 run, 7 more scheduled, not including All Stars).  PPMS runs a few, 4 scheduled this year.

So even with the small purse, Lernerville is the one constant in the area running 410s regularly.  You would think the drivers would want to support that, since they don't have many more options, without having to travel to central PA or Ohio.

Bill
SprintCarRatings.com



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