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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: NOW IS THE TIME.
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CEDARLAKER
September 20, 2018 at 09:37:23 PM
Joined: 08/04/2010
Posts: 60
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Not next week,  not this winter.   Now.  Every single sprint car sanctioning body needs to come together and demand major track safety upgrades.   We as a passionate fan base can't deal with out hearts being torn out time after time.  God's speed Greg.  May your loss not go in vain.  



ISUcyclones11
September 20, 2018 at 10:10:01 PM
Joined: 09/20/2016
Posts: 32
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I always try to wait for the emotion to come back down, but I honestly do not understand how tracks can have jagged edged walls (Jason Johnson, for example) or open walls on the outside of the track.  

You don't see these types of wrecks at Knoxville even though it has some of the highest speeds. The walls are much more forgiving when they are nice and even.

 



Johnny Utah
September 20, 2018 at 10:33:05 PM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1221
Reply

I've been sitting here staring into the screen and thinking about what to write. I've had about three paragraphs typed up at three different times, and deleted them all. Why? I don't know. I can't tell you. I have the same pit in my stomach that most likely you all have as well, but I know that I can remove emotion from any discussion I'm in. Maybe that's why I've deleted so many paragraphs... I'm afraid it would come off as too callous. Just know that I'm feeling the same as all of you.

What types of changes to the tracks are you suggesting? Some mention Knoxville, and there are other tracks that immediately come to mind of that ilk. Those are the tracks that are the gold standard.  If all tracks have to adhere to a certain standard, is everyone ok with the Outlaws and All-Stars dropping tracks because certain tracks cant affor to make those adjustments. Is everyone ok with  tracks making adjustments, but paying more to get in to a race on a typical Friday or Saturday night. There are a ton of questions that, quite honestly, in this emotionally charged time are almost impossible to rationally answer.

I have been to Susquehanna countless times back in the mid 90's and havent been there since the upgrades, but this sounds like a freak accident. I never thought the pit entrance being in turn 1 was a big deal, but then again I don't drive and I don't crew. According to the reports, if they are accurate, there was a steering failure going into 1. You can't plan for that. 

Again, this is the worst news to hear tonight.



DakotaDude
September 20, 2018 at 10:36:08 PM
Joined: 12/19/2010
Posts: 273
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: CEDARLAKER on September 20 2018 at 09:37:23 PM

Not next week,  not this winter.   Now.  Every single sprint car sanctioning body needs to come together and demand major track safety upgrades.   We as a passionate fan base can't deal with out hearts being torn out time after time.  God's speed Greg.  May your loss not go in vain.  



Well said.  i have loved this sport for 35 of my 44 years faithfully, although since 1996 due to moving to north central SD  don’t get to witness them live as much as I’d like due to distance, once or twice a year now. But this year is making it tough to not turn away....I’m tired of getting my heart ripped out. I’m tired of memorial tribute videos of great drivers being posted on social media. I’m tired of sending prayers to grieving racers wifes, family, kids, friends and teams. I’m tired of seeing another new in memory of decal on race cars. I’m tired of The inevitable posts that will be on Hosheads forum that will pick apart what happened, why and so forth. Please, please, look at safety in all aspects such as tracks, facilities, cars, etc. I realize this is obviously a dangerous sport and always will be. But it without a doubt, as witnessed this year, can be better. No room for blame, just room for improvement. Because selfishly, I don’t want to be tired of sprint cars. RIP to yet another damn fine racer. 



fiXXXer
September 20, 2018 at 10:37:24 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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This message was edited on September 20, 2018 at 10:46:34 PM by fiXXXer

Nothing will change. Maybe we can add another bar to the rollcage or put some tethers on something else. Meanwhile, next year Williams Grove will open their gates and there will still be a big blue steel bridge right above the backstretch and sprinters will be passing underneath at over 130 mph. Port Royal will still have cement jersey barriers all the way around the inside plus an unprotected cement stage with a sharp staircase carved into it. I hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid nothing will change. Logan Wagner hit that same opening a few years ago at Susky and it didn't change. It was a miracle that he survived that one. Can't tell you how many times I've had a discussion with someone about that opening. Now the inevitable has happened. Maybe I'm just angry right now. I'm damned sure sad. Greg was one of my favorites since he first came here to race the Apple #12. This one hurts worse than any for me. I really pray that we finally see these facilities step it up and do what's right. There will always be racing accidents. Can't prevent those but these obvious hazards present at these tracks can be and SHOULD be fixed. RIP Greg. My life was so much better because I got to watch you race. Heaven now has one of the very best. I think I'm done with sprint car racing. It's been fun. But it ain't fun anymore.....



egras
September 20, 2018 at 11:05:29 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
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Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on September 20 2018 at 10:37:24 PM

Nothing will change. Maybe we can add another bar to the rollcage or put some tethers on something else. Meanwhile, next year Williams Grove will open their gates and there will still be a big blue steel bridge right above the backstretch and sprinters will be passing underneath at over 130 mph. Port Royal will still have cement jersey barriers all the way around the inside plus an unprotected cement stage with a sharp staircase carved into it. I hope I'm wrong but I'm afraid nothing will change. Logan Wagner hit that same opening a few years ago at Susky and it didn't change. It was a miracle that he survived that one. Can't tell you how many times I've had a discussion with someone about that opening. Now the inevitable has happened. Maybe I'm just angry right now. I'm damned sure sad. Greg was one of my favorites since he first came here to race the Apple #12. This one hurts worse than any for me. I really pray that we finally see these facilities step it up and do what's right. There will always be racing accidents. Can't prevent those but these obvious hazards present at these tracks can be and SHOULD be fixed. RIP Greg. My life was so much better because I got to watch you race. Heaven now has one of the very best. I think I'm done with sprint car racing. It's been fun. But it ain't fun anymore.....



You are correct.  The accidents will never cease.  There will always be a way for one of these accidents to turn into a freak fatality---no matter what is done. 

But, you are also correct that sharp staircases, cement stages, mini barriers, and openings in the middle of the fence should not be allowed to still be there in range of these race cars.  It's 2018.  



RodinCanada
MyWebsite
September 21, 2018 at 12:37:37 AM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1720
Reply

The solution is in our wallets. Stop paying to watch people risk their lives at tracks you consider unsafe. By doing so we are enabling promoters to risk a life for profit.

Sit down someday and write a caring and constructive letter to your track asking for changes with a condition that you will only attend after said changes are made. Get 50 people to sign it and stick to it. Get others to do the same. The problem is money. The track pays huge purses to attract cars to attract fans who provide the purse. We are in control of the merry go round. Vow to only spend your money at safe tracks. Let all the promoters know and wait it out. If you want your local track to stay afloat cause its in your backyard, help them make the changes. Fundraise or offer labour or material. 

Tracks pay more than $15 to put on a show and risk a life and drivers pay more than $15 to race and risk their life. Why cant fans pay some money to reduce some risk to ensure the sport stays safe and long term


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

tenter
September 21, 2018 at 01:07:08 AM
Joined: 07/16/2008
Posts: 978
Reply

I think the more realistic solution is for the drivers, as a group, to come up with a list of dangerous situations a track presents, and then meet with the track personel to discuss what needs done . Then set a reasonable time frame for the improvements to be completed , or else the drivers will not race until the improvements are completed. This should happen soon, since the tracks would have until next season to complete the necessary work. 



j20s
September 21, 2018 at 01:13:16 AM
Joined: 03/06/2015
Posts: 212
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 01:28:29 AM by j20s
Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on September 21 2018 at 01:07:08 AM

I think the more realistic solution is for the drivers, as a group, to come up with a list of dangerous situations a track presents, and then meet with the track personel to discuss what needs done . Then set a reasonable time frame for the improvements to be completed , or else the drivers will not race until the improvements are completed. This should happen soon, since the tracks would have until next season to complete the necessary work. 



Again, your mind, heart, whatever is in the right place, but it will never happen. Sprint car drivers are the epitome of addicts (and that is clearly not written with a negative connotation, but most any driver will tell you the same). Your solution is akin to a heroin addict asking for clean needles only!

I, myself, would willingly race with no Hans at a track with no ambulance, if it meant I could race again, and I have very minimal actual track time experience. Imagine how lifelong drivers feel.

 

Owners, too, fiend for the next race. 

 

Follow the money. That is the only way solutions happen. 



blazer00
September 21, 2018 at 02:53:32 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply

Throughout the history of this wonderful sport we love, at one time or another nearly every track has suffered through the death of a driver. Yes, suffered. No track, regardless how high of standard it maintains, or the efforts in safety that it has employed, is immune from this. And don't think for a minute that when a tragedy like this occurs that the track owner and track personnel don't have the same sick feeling in the pit of their stomachs that we fans do right now. And regardless the efforts, tragedies are going to remain a part of the sport. The track owners know it, the car owners know it, the fans know it and the drivers and their families know it. And it really sucks! It's human nature to have a knee jerk reaction to something like this, and from this it's very possible that some changes might come. But the changes will never be enough. Safety is a never ending problem racing faces, and there will never be a final solution to that problem.



turn4guy
September 21, 2018 at 04:40:25 AM
Joined: 04/23/2015
Posts: 881
Reply

Some of these dangerous spots can be greatly improved with little cost. Some tinkering with wall and guardrails can be done with nothing more than the equipment that the track already owns,  and a little manpower. I would gladly pay more for pit passes and tickets if it's money that's needed. The backstretch situation at Williamsgrove needs adressed.  At the very least you put a gate there to keep cars from hitting the opening in the guardrail. It might not be perfect, or very pretty but it will help. If susky had a steel/guardrail type gate that was closed during green flag laps Im willing to bet Greg would still be with us. Cars are gonna flip and get airborne and they will hit things. It's unavoidable . It the sudden blunt force type wrecks that tracks can limit. So Justin Loh, Kathy Hughes this is for you. Ive been to racetracks all over the country. The opening in the backstretch at your racetrack is the most dangerous spot I've seen becsuse of the speed that the cars have going by it. What is it going to take? Is it going to take a car coming up from the bottom lane and getting turned into the opening going 120mph? It would be instant death. I cannot belive it hasn't happened yet.  Imagine the good press you guys would receive for doing that. I know for a fact it wouldn't cost much. So why wait till it happens? It can be prevented. Now. Not 2020. Not after it happens and Some one else dies. NOW . You guys think things are rough now with the poor attendance and all that stuff? What's gonna happen when a driver hits that and dies after what just happened at susky last night? It can be prevented. Do it. Now. Im a huge supporter of Williams Grove and its been like a second home to me. I want my late model driver to be safe. I want all drivers to be safe.  This needs to happen. Please make it happen. 



miledirtfan
September 21, 2018 at 06:10:39 AM
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 739
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 06:25:17 AM by miledirtfan

Who has the power?  World Racing Group and the All Star Sprint Cars, don't schedule races at tracks with obvious safety issues such as these open wide gaps.   Racing is obviously a dangerous sport and you can't take all the danger out of it.  However, create a scored safety assessment of every track you've gone to on tour.  Look at every aspect.  Mandate safer walls, fences for every track... if the track's score isn't what it needs to be, don't go.  Nobody is forcing sanctioning bodies to hold events at those tracks.



Dlucks83
September 21, 2018 at 07:28:42 AM
Joined: 07/25/2017
Posts: 196
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Johnny Utah on September 20 2018 at 10:33:05 PM

I've been sitting here staring into the screen and thinking about what to write. I've had about three paragraphs typed up at three different times, and deleted them all. Why? I don't know. I can't tell you. I have the same pit in my stomach that most likely you all have as well, but I know that I can remove emotion from any discussion I'm in. Maybe that's why I've deleted so many paragraphs... I'm afraid it would come off as too callous. Just know that I'm feeling the same as all of you.

What types of changes to the tracks are you suggesting? Some mention Knoxville, and there are other tracks that immediately come to mind of that ilk. Those are the tracks that are the gold standard.  If all tracks have to adhere to a certain standard, is everyone ok with the Outlaws and All-Stars dropping tracks because certain tracks cant affor to make those adjustments. Is everyone ok with  tracks making adjustments, but paying more to get in to a race on a typical Friday or Saturday night. There are a ton of questions that, quite honestly, in this emotionally charged time are almost impossible to rationally answer.

I have been to Susquehanna countless times back in the mid 90's and havent been there since the upgrades, but this sounds like a freak accident. I never thought the pit entrance being in turn 1 was a big deal, but then again I don't drive and I don't crew. According to the reports, if they are accurate, there was a steering failure going into 1. You can't plan for that. 

Again, this is the worst news to hear tonight.



Components on a race car breaking are not freak accidents. This could have been two drivers battling and touching wheels on entry or a tire blowing out with the same result. Tracks should be looking at how they can prevent cars from coming in contact with non-face planes of walls. Like catch fences and no breaks in walls on turn entry. That last one has puzzled me since I was a little kid. Why on earth are tracks creating openings in the wall on the two fastest part of the speedway? Not to mention tracks like Beaver Dam that have openings you can drive multiple rigs through side-by-side. There is no need for permanent openings that are bigger than like a grader.



fiXXXer
September 21, 2018 at 07:37:57 AM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: turn4guy on September 21 2018 at 04:40:25 AM

Some of these dangerous spots can be greatly improved with little cost. Some tinkering with wall and guardrails can be done with nothing more than the equipment that the track already owns,  and a little manpower. I would gladly pay more for pit passes and tickets if it's money that's needed. The backstretch situation at Williamsgrove needs adressed.  At the very least you put a gate there to keep cars from hitting the opening in the guardrail. It might not be perfect, or very pretty but it will help. If susky had a steel/guardrail type gate that was closed during green flag laps Im willing to bet Greg would still be with us. Cars are gonna flip and get airborne and they will hit things. It's unavoidable . It the sudden blunt force type wrecks that tracks can limit. So Justin Loh, Kathy Hughes this is for you. Ive been to racetracks all over the country. The opening in the backstretch at your racetrack is the most dangerous spot I've seen becsuse of the speed that the cars have going by it. What is it going to take? Is it going to take a car coming up from the bottom lane and getting turned into the opening going 120mph? It would be instant death. I cannot belive it hasn't happened yet.  Imagine the good press you guys would receive for doing that. I know for a fact it wouldn't cost much. So why wait till it happens? It can be prevented. Now. Not 2020. Not after it happens and Some one else dies. NOW . You guys think things are rough now with the poor attendance and all that stuff? What's gonna happen when a driver hits that and dies after what just happened at susky last night? It can be prevented. Do it. Now. Im a huge supporter of Williams Grove and its been like a second home to me. I want my late model driver to be safe. I want all drivers to be safe.  This needs to happen. Please make it happen. 



I couldn't agree more but I'm a but surprised you didn't mention the bridge. That thing is a blunt force hit to the cage just waiting to happen. I agree though. It's time to get off their asses and get these things done. I don't care about the costs. These tracks all seem to have money when they need it for something they want. Now it's time to make an investment in our drivers safety. 



fiXXXer
September 21, 2018 at 07:47:31 AM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: miledirtfan on September 21 2018 at 06:10:39 AM

Who has the power?  World Racing Group and the All Star Sprint Cars, don't schedule races at tracks with obvious safety issues such as these open wide gaps.   Racing is obviously a dangerous sport and you can't take all the danger out of it.  However, create a scored safety assessment of every track you've gone to on tour.  Look at every aspect.  Mandate safer walls, fences for every track... if the track's score isn't what it needs to be, don't go.  Nobody is forcing sanctioning bodies to hold events at those tracks.



I couldn't agree more. This NEEDS to happen.



Gridiron Racer
September 21, 2018 at 07:51:50 AM
Joined: 04/27/2016
Posts: 45
Reply

I guess despite being passionate dirt track lovers, safety is one thing that pavement racing is miles ahead of us at. Look at the advancements and courses of action they have taken over the years after tragedy has struck compared to the grass roots, both with the tracks and the cars. Granted, the funding available is completely different comparing pavement to dirt. But what cost is too great? Certainly not a life. There are answers out there and improvements that will come, I just hope the tracks and chasis builders can come to a resolution that is affordable but ultimately improves the safety of our drivers. It's unfortunate after such a tragedy to make this into a bitchfest about what tracks need to do but safety should always be the number 1 priority for the competitors. These incidents continue to hurt our sport that we all love. God speed Greg!



egras
September 21, 2018 at 07:54:15 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on September 21 2018 at 01:07:08 AM

I think the more realistic solution is for the drivers, as a group, to come up with a list of dangerous situations a track presents, and then meet with the track personel to discuss what needs done . Then set a reasonable time frame for the improvements to be completed , or else the drivers will not race until the improvements are completed. This should happen soon, since the tracks would have until next season to complete the necessary work. 



I remember being in the pits for the "Clay Classic" (or whatever it was called) at Rockford Speedway when they brought in truckloads of dirt and converted the pavement to dirt surface.  There were rumblings and rumors of drivers threatening to load back up and go home due to what they thought were unsafe conditions.  Pit entrance and exit wall ends exposed.  Short barriers all around the track.  I'm not sure what other concerns they had were, but in the end they all hit the track.  

I agree with you.  Drivers should band together in the off-season and come to an agreement---can call it a "safety union".  They should announce to their sanctioning body any tracks they refuse to race at due to safety concerns.   The sanctioning body can then contact the track, express the concerns, and further action can be taken.  If that action isn't taken, the track is off the schedule.  How hard is that?   

Beaver Dam immediately suspended all 410 racing after Johnson's death to address the issues causing 2 deaths in 3 years.  Not exactly proactive, and I haven't seen the changes, but at the very least there was an effort to prevent this from happening again.  Will this prevent another death at Beaver Dam?  Doubtful, but obvious safety issues MUST be addressed when they are recognized from here on out.  

Huge difference between a driver being killed or injured by impact with another car and being killed or injured due to track issues.  You can see the safety issues at a track right in plain view.  I remember thinking the first time I visited Beaver Dam 10 years ago "wow, there are hardly any barriers around this track at all--why is that wall so short?"  And, here we were in June.    



MIDDLEFINGER
September 21, 2018 at 08:51:39 AM
Joined: 01/29/2010
Posts: 258
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 08:52:56 AM by MIDDLEFINGER

there are definitely track issues, but car construction is a problem too.

the current cars are simply too lightweight in their construction which has barely changed in 15 years even though the speeds have increased substantially because of engine horsepower increases and Tire improvements.

the cars fold up too easily. how many time do you see two bump wheels and the front axle just collapses?

we race northeast dirt modifieds and injuries are rare. the cars are built much stronger 

if an injury does happen usually a broken arm or a concussion.  there was a fatality in Canada 3 or 4 years ago and that was the first one in over 30 years. 

difference is construction minimum roll bar is 1.5 diameter .120 thickness or 1.75 diameter .090 thickness 

sprint cars don't need to go that big but tubing size and thickness needs to be increased for a safer race car.

if it adds a few hundred pounds so be it



microsprint6
September 21, 2018 at 09:28:45 AM
Joined: 12/23/2013
Posts: 90
Reply
This message was edited on September 21, 2018 at 10:24:16 AM by microsprint6
Reply to:
Posted By: on at


I wasn't there last night so I can't speak for the specifics of what happened - chassis failure or track issue.  I can say it sickens me to see people pointing the finger at the track owners at this time of tragidy.  Does there need to be major changes made immediately - absolutely yes.  Baps has made it tough on themselves as the promoter seemed to go out of his way with his "make Susky great again" stuff and talking on social media about all their great improvements (which from a spectator side is very well done).  Does that make him and Scott responsible for what happened last hight - absolutely not.  t.

 

Unitl racers step up and form together and demand changes, these improvements will never happen.  And that is the major issue, drivers keep going back. This is a terrible tragedy and changes need to be made but unforetunately that probably won't happen at most places.  I believe Scott is a stand up person and will make immediate changes if I had to guess, but then there is a new set of issues of liabilty, insurances etc to deal with - which is why every other track in the area needs to be proactive and not reactive, because reactive opens yourself up to tons of problems most owners can't afford.



paydirt28
September 21, 2018 at 09:33:53 AM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: MIDDLEFINGER on September 21 2018 at 08:51:39 AM

there are definitely track issues, but car construction is a problem too.

the current cars are simply too lightweight in their construction which has barely changed in 15 years even though the speeds have increased substantially because of engine horsepower increases and Tire improvements.

the cars fold up too easily. how many time do you see two bump wheels and the front axle just collapses?

we race northeast dirt modifieds and injuries are rare. the cars are built much stronger 

if an injury does happen usually a broken arm or a concussion.  there was a fatality in Canada 3 or 4 years ago and that was the first one in over 30 years. 

difference is construction minimum roll bar is 1.5 diameter .120 thickness or 1.75 diameter .090 thickness 

sprint cars don't need to go that big but tubing size and thickness needs to be increased for a safer race car.

if it adds a few hundred pounds so be it



R.I.P Greg Hodnett. Easily my favorite Posse driver. My condolences to the family.

In response to the post. Maybe someone can verify this but I thought that I heard one of the chassis rule changes for next year includes front radius rods being of steel construction, not aluminum as they are now. This will greatly reduce the likelyhood of the front axel being knocked out so easily and had it been in place a couple months ago spared Jason Johnson's life. 



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