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You are right jdsprinter71 i have noticed it also..I have seen alot of deals in the last few years were new reacers have went and asked questions,,that new racers ask that would seem stupid to many of use older guys,,but the new guys are turned away or treated with negativaty...

In the old days almost everybody would be glad to help a new racer on rules or something that would help him at least finish a race,but today its like nobody will help nobody.

I know the biggest difference in small town tracks now is in the lower classes if you tow 50 miles one way and you go win you dont win enough money to pay for your day,,,Like gas to get there and back and pits passes for 2 people...And the race tracks are taking advantage of the lower classes like bomers and hobby stocks,, that have 20 to 25 cars and using the money they get from them classes to pay for the higher classes that only have 12 to 15 cars..And now they are starting new lower classes of Modified classes that dont pay enough to cover one days cost..And many of the guys are droping down into them classes because they cant afford the higher classes anymore...

Computers are letting some people voice there words that they normaly cant be heard..You are right the come back from some of the promoters are not very inviting to a new racer that has been turned away and feels that is the only way he csn be heard..it is a shame.

I feel that any class you run in if you win you should at least pay for that days cost of getting there and pit passes,,,Several classes dont pay enough to do that anymore,,,that can be only bad .

Good topic sprinter 71

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

redbandana, Your correct , payout is awful and especially in local classes, why car counts have dwindled along with a just down right bad economy which seems to be ongoing , you just have to do it for the love of the sport, IF and I mean IF you win or top 3 you have a chance to break even on expenses to and from track, EVERYTHING else is a loss type deal. Bottom line from way I see it.

I'll say this some ASCS Regional shows they pay only $1500 to win and $250 to start and I promise you that is not enough to pay for the trip to and from the track as far as some teams have to travel to race and also those BIG ol Toter/Semi's they haul their stuff in. The fuel for transportation , Pit Passes , fuel for car , eat , Tires , the $1500 is gone and probably even have to use a little out of pocket as well and that is just the winner, less for the rest of the field and they pay the same bills for the trip I would think. Seems though those Big teams don't have to have the loot as much as say the local guys to make it back home and back to the track. I know it economy ,payouts and so on affects all the racing from Nascar to Indy to WoO and on down the line but it does not affect them as much as the local/backbone racers of the sport which ultimately make it all go on up the line.

One thing I have found since the Computer entered into the racing scene is that people/fans/racer have bashed,praised and everything in between but up until recently I have not seen promoters come out and get on the Computer and retaliate like they have just recently ,maybe it is pressures that they have and economy and trying to make it go and have taken enough and just had enough,I even know one race track that has taken their message board and done away with it completely here in the past month or so. Heard they were tired of babysitting it all the time.

It is really something,seen the 70's Oil embargo deal and economy not good and racing still survived and even prospered some and the Oil Bust/Bank Failures of the 80's and racing struggled but managed to come back pretty good in the 90's and through the mid 2000's and just seems since then it has really taken a turn for the worst especially here in Okla. , State Fair Speedway shutting down might have been the dagger in the heart and beginning to wonder if anyone/anything can stop the bleeding and if it will ever really come close to even trying to prosper in this area again. Just makes you wonder?

J.D.

You see it the way i do for sure,jdsprinter,,one other thing that is hurting todays racing is like back in Tulsa in say 1969 for an example and many other years back in the day., they only had 2 classes, V8 Supermods and 6 Cylinder Jr mods,,the money was only split between 2 classes.Some track had a 3rd class of full bodys street stock..A top 10 payed for your day and then some.............................Now days you go to a track they might have 5 or 6 classes 10 to 15 cars each no B Mains, ,,,,,,,,,,,AMod ,,,,B Mod,,,,,,,,,Economy Mod,,,,Factory Stock,,,,,Bombers,,, and then Legends.And other classes that make some of use olders guys ask what do they call that class,,,,its looks like the last class itm looks like the last class that just ran.....Money is split 6 ways.The Math dont work.

And also back in the day more of the better drivers were matched against each other because of fewer classes,,today the better drivers are spread accros 5 or 6 classes,i feel that takes away from racing also for the fans part of it..

With fans in the stands droping dividing the money between 5 or 6 classes and not 2 dont leave much money to go around.The MATH in it now days dont work ,,or at least it dont help car owners or drivers,,,but it helps track promoters,,,they just look at total cars in the pits which is normal bussness but it dont help drivers or cars owners,it only helps the promoter.It not there falt it aint cheap to run a race track..

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

redbandana , Preach on!,

It is a tough deal for promoters these days and I can see that , Insurance has skyrocketed so much that now they are looking at Sanctions Deals at their race tracks and you have to get a license to run for full pay as well as a pt. fund but also to help pay for your insurance to race as well.

Promoters rely so much on the back gate , they have gotten away from promoting , why I don't know???, but they have , they rely on like redbandana says 4 to 7 classes to get pit pass money and the dilution effect for race fans is in full effect. Time and money are big things I am sure as it takes both to promote during the week and most all the time and most promoters around here except for a few have other money making business that help keep the track afloat and running. The few that don't have that little ol race in Tulsa in Jan. that make them a whole lot of loot and they have no worries whether the crowd shows or not. It is just all good for them for the remainder of the year after that one race.

I don't believe promoters do a lot of things they use to do , like working the race track during the week again this is time and money , time spent doing it which takes away from other money making businesses to tend to as well as money to spend on diesel or ??? to work the track and water which is in short supply right now here in Okla. at least. I know you say well why do both and several I have talked to thought they might get a good program going and it be profitable and makes some extra $$$ for down the road and who does not want to make extra $$$$. Promoters still try and improve their tracks , add lighting , seating , better concessions/restrooms etc. but most have to do it a small amounts at a time and look for bargains and deals on things they need. I see that at several tracks I go to ,even those promoters of that Big race in Jan. look for good deals on Equipment etc still.

I tell you we were at Dallas this past March for their Spring Nat. for ASCS Sprint cars, ran 2 classes both nights , 50+ Sprints and ran Sport Mods both nights had 20 of them each night , ran the show with intermission is 2 1/2 hrs. and outta there by 10:30 and all is good and that just does not seem to happen much anymore , although lots of them try to make it happen , it is a struggle to do so with so many classes run and wrecks and delays from spins and so on that suddenly that 2 1/2 hr. show is now a 3+ hr. show.

Not sure what the answers are or even if they are any, Money , Money and more Money come to mind to cure most of the problems and it seems to in all areas of racing , but it is in short supply for most , just scary seeing how it is now and wondering if it will get any better in the future??.

J.D.

J.D.

YES!

Throw in the $400+ tire bill each night, enclosed trailers hiding the goods until the races begin, ....well- there you have it.

The BEST, MOST RELIABLE RACE CARS RUN TODAY AT HIGHER SPEEDS THAN BE FORE.

Yet "the dream of the steel horse" is not being ignited like it was, nor are the Legends "Ten feet tall" anymore.

The ingredients are certainly all there, or closeby. No one knows what the actual mix is that's needed to go forward again. But I do think it's time to go back and look at what worked in the past. SOME THINGS NEED TO STAY IN THE PAST, AND SOME THINGS TODAY- NEED TO GO TO THE DUMP WITH THEM.

Wanna know where the "kind" of people went after they gave up on racing on dirt? Go to a hot rod/custom car like show (shows, swap meets, nascar, etc.).Then go to a Harley-Davidson bike related gathering. GET THESE KINDS OF PEOPLE BACK, AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW.

The "goods" are in the open most of the time, going to and coming from an event they are interested in. AND THE NEW DREAMS OF THE STEEL HORSES ARE ALIVE AND WELL. This time, they also spend more money to be a part of it.

Somebody needs to get on top of this racing thing here, and turn it around before the money-hungry-bloodsuckers drain it dry of the life that is left. The truth is, racers will race anything that isn't bolted down.

I have no other sport to be interested in, this is it. Yet I hardly make the time to go anymore. I refuse to go to an event that makes me feel like it's a 'non-paying' job that gives me no reason to LOVE being there. I LOVE the mix we knew, and I PAY more than I should pursuing it. I even left the Chili Bowl at 5pm this year, well before sammy even got suited up. I got my entertainment in the trade show area. yup, shur did.

I'll stay home and blow my money on my old supers through e-bay and UPS. If the mix ever gets right again, I'll be around the tracks more often.

This is what I pay to pursue

Your right Brian on all the things you mention, guess I am just still a little crazy to be doing it , but just can't walk away from the dirt on weekends,just still enjoy it and from March till Oct. each season I am there week in and week out, still like to go pursue the challenge of trying to win or at least run up front and get the car from point A to B around that circle of dirt as fast as possible at different venues if possible,although this year it will be at one place only.Watchin what I assembled and put together this past winter through Ice Storms and cold and with a little sweat and determination to get it ready for this race season, Still get the thrill of when she fires off and comes rolling up to the trailer and she is belchin out lobe sounds off the cam through the headers and heat starts to build in the motor and the sweet smell of methanol flows through the air.

Guess probably even get a little more excited when as I do this year have a new driver who has limited experience in a big car,but to give him his shot at it and pursue something he has wanted to do forever from what I have been told and see the look in his eye's and the appreciation for his oppurtunity and as they say we can look like geniuses or like the Mule down the street in the field and if last Sunday's practice was any indication I believe Einstein might be proud of us so far,BUT it is a long season yet to go , Yes it might be really bad right now out there in the short track world but when the Ol Hog Wagon fires here soon to start it's 24th season,it'll still be all good to me from a personal standpoint.

I have been meaning to meet up with David Grace and ask him what makes him still want to pursue it each year.Be very interesting to hear his answer on this subject as well.

J.D.

Tim is right 1969 was s special time in Tulsa. I remember the promoter being on the TV sports once a week with the standings in each class and he would try to stir up a Little controversy by saying something like "the KS drivers are taking all the big money home with them and for you to come this week to see if our drivers can keep the money in OK' he would try to start a grudge between the drivers if he could by saying something like The #2 Ford embarrassed the #1 Chevy in the feature last week. The cars were as well known as the drivers, The Cate's deuce, The Pink Zink, Dell's #1 (it was not the budmobile until 1970) ole man Joe's 33, Little Joe's 74. The purse was split up 75-25 for the supers but not too many people came to see the modifieds. This was a special year it seemed that when we got out of the 60's things changed.

Ray

I think the full bodied local classes of today like redbandana said , pay nothing and so many of them there is a great dillution effect, Pro Stocks, Super Stocks, Factory Stocks, Hot Stocks,Street Stocks, Limited Late Model and so on.

The Modified deal was a pretty good thing when it started 15 or so yrs. ago but like other classes that were meant to be cheap when started are far from it now,use to go by upper A arms from the Salvage and race and now it is custom/mass made parts and if you look at most of them any more they are a 4 link deal with more adjustments than you can imagine on positions of shocks , springs and many other things that require lots of thought it seems to me when looking at one.

The Sport Mod, B Mod, I Mod or whatever else you want to call them are getting pricey as well and they have only been in existence about 5 or so yrs. now.

Lots of these classes now I guess were invented somewhere along the line by tracks in hope of getting a car counts up at their place by starting out cheap and then like usual letting it get out of hand and costing a bunch of $$$ to run the class.

Give you an example was at Creek Co. Speedway on Apr. 9th and had 26 Champ Sprints at the place and around a dozen in all the other classes. Granted still lots of Sprint Cars in Tulsa area, track is close and with gas prices prolly gonna factor into racing at tracks this year.Seems usually it is the other way around with less Sprints and more Full bodied cars and well guess it is so pricey to build and run one and the little pay they get makes you just not want to do it.

Be interesting to see how Brill Motor Speedway does when it gets to start the season with changing to Fri. nights??, maybe better or same or worse on car counts,I have heard lots of opinions ,some good and some not so good , What will really be scary is when it gets into the July/Aug. time, car counts always go down some during that time each year.

Like Ray said , things have changed from 4 decades ago till now and not sure all of it was for the good in Dirt Racing.

J.D.

Today is alot differenrt from back in the 60s,,today kids have I Pods video games and can find every sports on TV...I sell Sports stuff in my stores in Different Malls ,,,20 years ago if you lined up 10 kids, 6 out of 10 wanted to be a Baseball Player because it was seable dayly on TV.There was 1 or 2 out of 10 wanted to be a Race car driver,, then 1 or 2 was Football.and 1 or 2 Basketball.But now days things have changed.

If you lined up 10 kids now ,only 1 want Baseball 3 want Football 1 Hockey 2 Race car driver 1 Basketball and the 2 that are left dont want in Sports at all,,,,i see it this way because of what i sell in my stores ,,i carry College,Baseball,Football ,hockey,Basketball ,Racing stuff..I carry everything you could hang ,,stick,,wear,to your car, house and some stuff on yourself..

There are some big collectors finally giving Jimmie Johnson his just do after 5 titles..People are looking for stuff on Johnson like they would Petty or Earnhart Sr,,Davey Allison etc etc..People are looking for Johnsons stuff like they would Micheal Jordon,,or Tiger Woods and maybe Mickey Mantle..They did the same thing with Jeff Gordon when he was hot..And JR also when he was winning a few years back.You got to do something really special or have the Media pushing you to get that special status....But i can see people coming into my store asking for Jimmie Johnson stuff because of what they see him do on TV..Race fans now can set home in there special cuffy chair,,they dont got to go out and set in the stands at a local dirt track anymore.

I think TV and media has changed things for back in the day were kids now days have more to choice from,,,But Racing has not droped like the other Sports,It has held its own..Racing and Football and College Sports have gained the most some from TV and Media. 1981 seem to be the turning point where all Sports kind of balianced out,, it was during the Baseball Strike..Bussnesses found out then they could advertise with other Sports other than Baseball and do just as well if not better,,, so the money started leveling between the other sports..Bussnesses started asking to put there money on Racing and football and it p[ayed off for them,,that helped racing get more races on TV.

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled you still do it, and maybe I was a bit harsh.

Let me put it another way-

You can't argue with success. Success in regards to dirt track racing is supposed to mean a higher payout at the window at the end of the night. Bigger crowds are supposed to make this happen.

Lately I have wondered if the higher crowd counts would mean a higher insurance liability, meaning more people to file a lawsuit when they get mud in their eye. People do threaten with lawsuits on smaller things when they are convinced a lot of money is going through a place. THIS IS THE ONLY VALID EXCUSE I CAN THINK OF - IN REGARDS TO "NOT" PROMOTING THE FILLING UP OF A GRANDSTAND. Is there any truth to this being a factor?

I don't think Ins. issues have much to do with crowd sizes, might have to do with higher premiums than ever for policies, I would imagine, once you got a policy , it stands good for the time you have it and if 1 or 10,000 fans show up it will be all the same and most promoters would like the latter number in that rhelm of numbers.

Like redbandana says , to much else to do today ,all kinds of entertainment, movies,IPods, video games, internet, High Def TV and several of those things don't cost a lot of money to do and Dirt Track Racing is just not one of the to do's at the top of the list anymore, I have folks whom I work with will come out and watch my Sprinter run maybe 2 times a season and that is all as they have other things to do with kids etc.

Younger generations of kids are sparce at a dirt track , whether it's not wanting to get dirty or liking to do other things listed above or as the younger generations are these days more isolated/intorvert types, not sure what the answer is for it.

I do know after the races ,I try and hand out candy to kids who come by and see the car and also let them sit in it if they want and talk to folks and try and have a conversation with them and explain things if asked , will leave my Sprinter out of the trailer and not just load it up so to get home early , gives the kid a chance to see what he/she was watching from the stands and think I sat in that car , I want to come back again and watch it race again. It's not much but guess if we all did a small part it would make a difference , I know the WoO guys have learned that over the years , it helps sell T Shirts and merchandise for them, guess they learned that from the Cup guys on marketing yourself and availability. I know all the guys who have drove for me were accesible to fans and so will the new shoe this year, stay and talk and sign an autograph, cause ya just never know who your talking to , might be your next sponsor.

J.D.

Also remember Stan Cothren former Modified 6 Cyl. driver from Lawton once told me back when I first bought a 100" car in the 80's, that your in the entertainment business now and I believe he was right with that statement.

J.D.

I remember back in the 60s when my dad was racing hard,,he would get all bent out of shape if he did not have a bag full of Racing Stickers to give to the kids,I remember riding with him one time to Springfield about 75 miles to meet the oil rep to get some stickers for the upcoming weekend....

Win as if you are use to it.And lose as if you enjoyed 
it for a change.Its hard to get to the top and alot 
harder to stay there.

Starts for real tonight at BMS , see if it rains or not, cannot say don't want it to because lot's of people sure need it to.

Hopin to finish and have some luck and finish if possible up front.

J.D.

Good luck wish I were there

Ray

Ray, Give you a full report Monday and hope the report is a good one and Thanks, LUCK is ALWAYS a very good thing to have.

J.D.

Good luck J.D. and new shoe!

John Stewart

Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429

Ray, Opening night in the books, done OK for new shoe and loaded er up in 1 piece , still had Carb issues with a top end flutter in both Hot Laps and Heat race, ran 3rd in heat and then adjusted on Carb some and had no problems with it in A main, running 5th and with 2 laps to go throttle linkage jam nut on Heim came loose which allowed it to back off and not have any throttle so pulled in infield and finished 10th,can see new shoe has talent and is adjusting to the big car very well. Future looks good, just got to keep workin and feel good things will come.

J.D.

Sounds like your new driver has the presence of mind to not drive over his head. Sometimes a new driver will think that he has to prove himself and wad the car up doing it. They had just started to change over to fuel from gas when i stopped going and man did they have problems. There were no carbs made to run fuel and they could not get them rich enough and there were a lot of burnt pistons. I am sure that you will get your problem fixed, as for mine I go to the surgeon at 2:45 PM today. Hopefully we can get this done, I am tired of hurting and dealing with insurance companies. Will let you know what he says.

Ray