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Not that it might not be the Prather 97

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

I understand where you are coming from.

I thought too the yellow 97 was a Harkness/Prather/Nance car but then I learned a little about the Parson Cars. The cages are very much alike. Maybe I am about to learn something new here but, the rear incline on the cage is about like a Parson, then in another picture there is the bend radius on the front of the cage that is identical to the Willingham 6. Don't forget the 1" tubing X in the back and it's placement. Also the rolled belly pan too. It is the sum of the whole of these things that tell me it might be a Parson. Yet the picture below now makes me wonder.

Not in stone, but I was told Frankie Lies drove then bought the Prather 97. Ben Watson, of Kansas was on Prathers team and he stated that Lies bought the car after Harkness went with Steinert. Of course Lies went with a Parson later, but the Prather Nance bridged the gap between the blue 55 and the NCRA championship winning car. I have no idea where this car went after Lies.

Yet here is Salem

I won't be giving names out unless I am asked too or told it's okay,

I've added another strong possible name to the list. He is looking for a car. For now things are quiet, waiting to see...........................

Dallas, Texas cars-

Still haven't heard anything from you guys. If this does go through, it will help get those cars from OkC to south of you motivated, and a Vintage show would be viable for you guys to do. I know it's a long haul, but many of your street rod friends will be coming in for the Nats.

Just got off of the phone with someone who put on the Ascot Oldtimers show. They bring in 800+ people, several cars(although this year there were none doing laps). The show is done at Parris Island, for many that track is the new home for the CRA/SCRA loyals.

Our show needs laps run, display only's are welcome(we love them all too), but laps need to be run in order for it to be a success. Thankfully there is NO shortage of those wanting track time. Track time is a go/no go element here.

To me success is at least breaking even and everybody having a good time without spending an arm and a leg. Anything over that I'm sure the promoter would want, after all, it is his venue to run. No purse means much less cost to the promoter. If you have issues with the promoter(whoever it is), remember this is for this thing we do, tolerance would be appreciated. Bury your hatchets for at least one day.

As always , criticisms, thoughts, advice is welcomed. This is not about "me", this about the people I wish to be around and the things we like to do.

A couple more thoughts,

Yes, there is a recession on. That might hurt us, but then the NSRA could be hurt by a lower car count too. Thus both sides could be helping each other just by location and date without strings attached.

Also, it is NASCAR weekend and there will be many who would like to go down there but for the same reasons they can't. OkC could entice them too.

I have been to several NSRA events at the Fairgrounds. I never stay all day, but I do stay for a few hours...............I have learned not to mark my parking spot by looking at the other parked cars around me, because they are usually replaced by other cars by the time I leave, if I park over by the I-44 entrance....................High turnover in that area, and many car people like shows that captivate their attention all day if they don't have to WALK all the time. Now the parking areas over by the Grandstand are for the most part open. We would still be out of their way since most street rods would be coming in and going out at another entrance. In the end result, we would be disturbing the peace with a noise they like to hear! Naturally, the show would have to be over by the curfew.

The Nats show on Saturday is over officially at 5pm, Sunday morn it fires back up. There would be a spot for us to run afterwards if we could. Whichever is best for the vintage show is my vote. Thoughts?

Does anybody know who made the Don Edmunds, Jud Larson t-shirts for the Chili Bowl last year?

I think Fred(Stewart) told me that at one time this car had a 6 cylinder. Don't know if Fred made the change to v8 or not. Ironically though, Fred's racing partner, Max Estes, did a resto on a Jim Harkness ride, the #11. Check http://www.racingfromthepast.com/restoredlap3index147.html for a couple of pics. Shortly after it was finished, and maybe it's public debut, Max took it to the KAR meet at Norton, Ks. Also there was Roy Bryant. Before the day was over, Roy was in the black beauty. Even though he is no spring chicken, once a racer, always a racer. Roy was really airing out the new car, but as sometimes happens, had an encounter with the grandstand wall. Roy was ok, but the car was in bad, bad shape. Max gathered up the pieces, took them back to the Estes/Stewart race shop in Dodge City and started the second resto. BTW, after the crash, the tattletale showed 8200 rpm.

And speaking of Roy Bryant, in the pictures from the Bill Hall meet at 81 this fall, you see the name Rob Bryant, who is Roy's son. He has been traveling with Jerry Wilson, and spending time behind the wheel of the Offy Killer #25 sprint. Also looked like he had time behind the wheel of the Forshee Plumbing #34 resto, a car his dad also spent alot of time in.

I believe Davey Ross also wrecked it at Liberal. But I think it had a different owner when Davey wrecked it.

There was a rumor that there was still another and the original #11 still around?

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

It's on this page with Frank Lies #56 http://www.racingfromthepast.com/hutchnationals74firelap2index80.html

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

The 97 car was built by Vic Kline & Jelly in 1971, Jim Toomes and Larry Hall put it together and ran a 6cly Ford. Sold to Rick Salem who put in a V-8 chevy ran it as #22, It was crashed and was changed to front torsion bars, Fred Stewart owns the car now. The #15 car is one of the last real modified from the middle 60's, 31 Model A' 2door sedan. Built by Kenny McCoy of Hutchinson, Ks. now owned by Dwane Wolf. The #11 car is a Nance former Hanson-Ron Cuda driven Super now owned by Deen Woods. The white car is owned by Max Estes. This picture was taken at a K.A.R. event in Beloit, Ks.

Thanks for the clarification. That is a fine looking set of cars!

Read the update on the first post.

It has been noted i used the term "race" a little too loosely.

Allow me to clarify,

This is an exhibition, an exercise of our machines. Safety issues are addressed at other tracks, and they will be addressed here. This is not a race race. Any over the top driving will result in stopping the show long enough to toss the offender. Picking up a left front is fine, even encouraged. But if it's to the point you're willing to risk cutting a tire by getting too close. Stay home. We want to just have fun and in the words of one person I've talked to, "air our cars out". One torn up race car or one torn up Grampa, could end this thing in a hurry. Protecting ourselves and each other protects the event. Protecting the event protects one thing we like to do.

Cutoff dates are still to be determined, but pretty certain downtube cars after the late '80s will be too new. more later.

It has been brought up that the term "vintage" needs to be defined. It is a term used loosely these days, yet it means diferently from one person to another.

The core group, the backbone of this whole deal is focused on the old oval race cars from the northern Kansas border to Dallas. The old NCRA territory. There are sprints,midgets,silver crown cars etc

to enjoy as well.

Personalities of the people, personalities of the cars from days gone by are what have brought us here. We are a clique of our own. Getting the right flavor of this event starts here, and it needs to NOT venture too far away from it.

Newbies need just enough room to operate to be inspired to join and help this become an annual event. There are enough liabilities to make this a one time deal. We need to overcome those. Yet keep the flavor.

At this point it looks like it's modifieds,supermodifieds,midgets,sprint,silver crown. 5 classes-then throw in a designation of cageless and cage cars, that could make 10 classes. Then if each class had multiple cars that were split between doing conservative laps and those wanting to crank some rpms, you end up with 20 classes. There are not enough cars to support a crazy event like that.

We HAVE TO BE REASONABLE. This is an oppurtunity to let this hobby flourish, give our cars a stage. The ulterior motive here is not to make a ton of money, it is to GET YOUR CARS AND THE PEOPLE WHO USED TO DRIVE AND WORK ON THEM TOGETHER.Maybe even bring in some of their old fans. The longer there is no event to shoot for, the more cars and parts that will be sold out of state to support the other vintage groups. The easier it will be for future potential participants to forget why.

If we need to make up different designations, we'll do it.

I like Latimore Valley as a model for our event. It has been going on for I think 20+ years now. We have an awesome chance to catch an equal old race car count that can match theirs in less time. A little tolerance is needed amongst us, while we adjust to find where 'our' crowd went. Our crowd is different now than they were long ago, I'm sure we'll find out how much. I know personally that people love the cars that are on this site. So much in fact, that after having mine on a trailer for a day in town, it makes me wonder all over again why we haven't done this before. My notion is that now is the time to do it. Some of the greatest things we've seen have been born out of harder times.

Update again,

Putting the two pictures together between us and Lanny, and since there has been no interest shown from the fendered car owners, any and all full fendered submissions must be provided with pictures and a solid description to be considered. The idea is to ONLY allow those cars in this class that raced WITHOUT a GM style metric chassis up to 1980, or built in the standard thereof prior to 1980. To date there has been no offerings of any full fendered cars.

Open wheeled cars- once again at this time only non-downtube cars before the late 1980's. Or any car built after that date, yet built utilizing the standards thereof....i.e. If you built a Walker clone this winter, it would pass just fine.

Leaving Yukon this morning I stopped at popular racing parts store, and guess who I ran into? Yes, Lanny, he was making sure there were plenty of mufflers in town for his show this weekend. I talked a minute or two about our show. He noted we needed 20-22 cars at least in the modified/supermodified ranks----3 heats, 1 feature

For us that means

3 sets of hot laps

3 exhibition heats

1 exhibition A feature...........This will be the backbone of the show. Due to similarity, Silver Crown type cars will probably be placed with this group. Since we are not heads-up racing, injectors vs carbuerators should not be an issue.

Based on the number of sprints/midgets that fit the spirit of this event, we will determine just how to proceed there. Number of laps for these 2 groups will be determined to a satisfactory level for both the car owners and the event.

At this time, we have enough cars and interest for one day/evening only. Also the understanding is that "there is no purse", this an exhibition, not a 'race'. We will have to police ourselves. As you hear from others outside this board, you will hear the term 'race' used loosely. As long as we remember what it means, we'll be fine. Time of day is to be decided.

For safety, expect to use the usual safety equipment coupled with common sense.

One last note-EVERYONE I have talked to, and there has been many, is in favor of this show/venue/date. Each party wants it carried out in an orderly,mature fashion -yet flexible enough so that we can have some fun! Later, i've got cars to work on.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAXWELL-SPRINT-RACE-CAR-VINTAGE-MVVRCA-RACE-READY_W0QQitemZ230302135255QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230302135255&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Just in time for the show. Couldn't put one together for that money. Change out the hood and wheels and have a winner.

10-25-08

So far it's looking like we will be able to stay within the realm of what is acceptable to all parties contacted on this board and through the backchannels.

I am under obligation to give an honest assessment to both you, and Lanny. The trick is to get you guys and Lanny together for one day so that we can see what we can do.

I've known Lanny(not sure he knows or remembers me) since I was 5 years old. I have heard your views and opinions on how Lanny operates. Like the rest of us, he has to go where the money is coming from. Still, at the Wichita Falls racers reunion, Lanny and Beverly Edwards showed up to remember and see how everybody was doing, even though they had a winternationals show at Lawton that night to do.

My personal observation is that Lanny would like to see these cars and people again. No purse means no need to pack the stands. Yet we have a good day, and a great oppurtunity to make this happen.

I will be getting with many of you so that i can follow up with a list of those cars that intend to appear. Right now I need a solid list of 20+ 96"-100" wb cars. Since not all will show up, I will need as many as possible. From what I've seen , this is doable.

We need to take ideas for a name for this event. Or do you have one yet?

I have plugged it on the Home Page. We get many more views on the Racing From The Past Home Page than here on the forum. Maybe it will get more attention.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Warren,

I don't have a definitive name for it yet. I was waiting for the right one. I tossed in a name some posts back, but the name is not set in stone. I would like a name that will stick well, something that hits the note, if you know what I mean.

Thank you for putting it on your main site! You sir are a positive key ingredient in making this happen. I didn't know so many still cared about these cars.

I have only posted the ideas here, since this is the site I care about the most.