Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I never said any driver wasnt good, all those drivers in "your list" are legends and great drivers and Iwasn't bashing or starting shit with you, I was stating my opinion, and having a discussion. Aparently you want to argue and prove your knowledge of sprintcar racing, GREAT JOB BEAR!!!!!!! I need to tap out because you are too much for me, maybe you can go to the national Sprintcar know it all competition and bring home the gold ! Mommy will be so proud !!

Soggy Wheaties?  really that's your best? Look you didn't squash anything, I don't care about your list of facts LOL, Today's drivers are every bit as good as the guys you mentioned, Kraig Kinser won the Knoxville nationals, does that make him a hall of fame driver? You base a drivers abilities on weather or not they won big races, that's it. Those races are big acomplishments but they don't define who is great and who is not. I take back my endorsement for know it all, you don't know shit. Now go back in your cave before someone puts a bullet in your thick head.

Wow!!! I think Hoseheads has reached an all time new low. Shooting "someone/something" in the head because of a message board, really??  We now have message board rage????  Where has the civility gone these days...sheesh. A good spirited debate turned hostile because we don't agree? I figured this was where this was headed when you started the name calling and insults.

I really feel sorry for you.  This totally exemplifies why people across the country have issues with PA fans, albeit you are in the minority of the ones I have meet in my journies.

What a sad place this has turned into over the last 15 years....

Yea and those guys careers are over these guys,are just getting started. Let's add Donny to my list, and Kerry and Ian Madsen, Kraig Kinser, again I'm not saying anyone is better or worse but I think today's competition is every bit as tough as it was in 80's infact I think it's tougher given the equality of the cars, you hang on to your glory days Pappy I'll enjoy the new blood while you piss all over today wishing it could be more like it was way back when, enjoy!

Why do you have to keep adding drivers to your list if the current generation is that good?

Not sure why the pissing match, but IMO, Schatz is at hte level Kinser was in the 80's.

I was around in the 80's and you could guarantee when they drove through the gate who was going to win (Steve, Sammy or Wolfie) - ironically, Wolfie hardly ever ran exclusively with the WoO, is he less of a driver because he didn't? 

His big years were 84,85 (when he ran PA and big races only) and 89 when they ran WoO, USA and big paying races (they never chased points, they chased $$$$).

Sammy was probably the most mechanically inclined of the 3, but instead of focusing on driving, he was always tinkering to attempt to get a leg up (IMO, this hurt him).

Steve had the best car and crew chief (Karl).

Blaney didn't become a major player until the 1990's when it came to competing for championships or wins (unless the Big 3 broke no one realy was).

Mark Kinser became dominant for a time in Karl's car when Steve's NASCAR experiment didn't work out.

Lasoski was never really dominant (when he won his first Nationals and when he won a NST and WoO title, they didn't win races, they were consistent) -- when he drove for Tony, he won more, but consistency is what won him championships.

Are the drivers from the 1980's Hall of Famer's (yep, but I could argue that they aren't based on their win %, but they get a pass because they raced with the WoO).

20 years from now, people will be talking about how dominant Donny Schatz is while drivers like Pittman (won a WoO championship while Schatz was in his prime), Saldana, Brown, Lasoski, Kinser, Sides, DeWease, Rahmer, McCarl and quite a few others were also winning races (just not near as many as Donny).

IMO, of today's drivers, Donny has competed against and beat competition (outside of Sammy and Doug) of just as high of caliber drivers, but WAYYY better equipment (I remember races in the 80's having a max of 2-3 cars finish on the lead lap at Knoxville (during a 20 lap race)).

Today's drivers that will probably one day be enshrined in the Hall of Fame:  Schatz, McCarl, DeWease, Pittman, Brown (if he continues his upward trajectory), Saldana (maybe), while I'm sure there are others that will rise to that level (provided they can stay in good equipment and don't get snatched up by the 800 pound Gorilla called NASCAR).

It's different era's, I'm lucky enough to have seen the first and living during hte second, just wish I'd been around for the 60's and 70's so I could objectively say whether or not Opperman was better than Kinser....

Not sure why the pissing match, but IMO, Schatz is at hte level Kinser was in the 80's.

I was around in the 80's and you could guarantee when they drove through the gate who was going to win (Steve, Sammy or Wolfie) - ironically, Wolfie hardly ever ran exclusively with the WoO, is he less of a driver because he didn't? 

His big years were 84,85 (when he ran PA and big races only) and 89 when they ran WoO, USA and big paying races (they never chased points, they chased $$$$).

Sammy was probably the most mechanically inclined of the 3, but instead of focusing on driving, he was always tinkering to attempt to get a leg up (IMO, this hurt him).

Steve had the best car and crew chief (Karl).

Blaney didn't become a major player until the 1990's when it came to competing for championships or wins (unless the Big 3 broke no one realy was).

Mark Kinser became dominant for a time in Karl's car when Steve's NASCAR experiment didn't work out.

Lasoski was never really dominant (when he won his first Nationals and when he won a NST and WoO title, they didn't win races, they were consistent) -- when he drove for Tony, he won more, but consistency is what won him championships.

Are the drivers from the 1980's Hall of Famer's (yep, but I could argue that they aren't based on their win %, but they get a pass because they raced with the WoO).

20 years from now, people will be talking about how dominant Donny Schatz is while drivers like Pittman (won a WoO championship while Schatz was in his prime), Saldana, Brown, Lasoski, Kinser, Sides, DeWease, Rahmer, McCarl and quite a few others were also winning races (just not near as many as Donny).

IMO, of today's drivers, Donny has competed against and beat competition (outside of Sammy and Doug) of just as high of caliber drivers, but WAYYY better equipment (I remember races in the 80's having a max of 2-3 cars finish on the lead lap at Knoxville (during a 20 lap race)).

Today's drivers that will probably one day be enshrined in the Hall of Fame:  Schatz, McCarl, DeWease, Pittman, Brown (if he continues his upward trajectory), Saldana (maybe), while I'm sure there are others that will rise to that level (provided they can stay in good equipment and don't get snatched up by the 800 pound Gorilla called NASCAR).

It's different era's, I'm lucky enough to have seen the first and living during hte second, just wish I'd been around for the 60's and 70's so I could objectively say whether or not Opperman was better than Kinser....

Saldana and Pittman are the only ones on your list worthy of conversation.  Brown has had nice career so far, but his body work is young, but clearly making an impression so far in his young career.

Lets take a look a the most significant things in sprint car racing and do a comparision based on facts, shall we.....

Your List drivers:

Knoxville Nats wins=0

Kings Royal wins=3(Saldana(2) and Pittman)

WoO Titles=1(Pittman)

Our list of drivers:

Knoxville Nats wins=10(Blaney, M Kinser(3),Lasoski(4), Allen, Shuman)

Kings Royal wins=7 (Blaney(2), Haud(3), Davis, M Kinser)

WoO Titles=5(Blaney, M Kinser(2), Lasoski, Davis)

Just the facts!

First of all, when Mark Kinser and the Dude were winning those WoO titles and Knoxville championships, Wolfgang was long retired and Steve and Sammy had stopped dominating the sport. You're picking from a 20-30 year era with your stats, which of course skews it massively. 

Secondly, let's just look at it objectively by picking a year in the "Big 3" era and last year at Knoxville. 

In 1989, Steve Kinser led time trials at Knoxville by setting a 16.366. Only 11 guys were within 1/2 second of him. Only 30 (of 61) guys were within a full second. Fast forward to 2014, Paul Mcmahan set fast time with a 14.633. 29 guys were within 1/2 second and 49 (of 52) were within a full second. 

There is so much more equal competition nowadays with everyone being on comparable equipment. That's what makes Schatz's run all the more remarkable. 

I would be curious to know the track conditions that night in 1989. Did Steve time early and the track burned off causing the times to slow after his lap?

I read a comment from Brian Brown after winning the feature on the night you mention last year. He was running out of tear offs in the feature so that tells me the track was probably heavy all night, thus a the tighter time trial numbers.

As far as Gravel goes this year I can honestly say that I saw him losing this ride about 2 weeks ago, it finally happened. Reason being is that he had a good year last year but just wasn't putting up the numbers this year thus far, Roth isn't going to sit back and watch that.  Gravel was sitting 9th in points with only 2 top 5's, I've seen him in a few highlight reels upside down...I'm actually a Gravel fan but the numbers were speaking for themselves.  You win some, you lose some.

It seemed like his numbers were down from last year, but he sure did have the best numbers that Roth had this year...

Mr. D. Roth overlooked the real issues. Sad to see David out of the Roth car just feel like they could of grown as a team. He was able to make the show consistently!! Hope to see good for the kI'd. Hirst didn't do anything in the car while on the tour for a very very short time I know with the destin team that gravel always qualified i from if Hirst and where Dollansky has beem. Don't know where his future will be with destin and that Scott guy, seem underpowered in the HP department if you ask me. They just don't present themselves in a very organized or put together professional level as Roth did or stewart and schatz team. Just wish him the best of luck and hope he can get a chance again!

Seeing all these stats reminds Super Chuck of the old saying about statistics.  "Over 75% of all statistics are inaccurate, while the other 30% are spot on."

Super Chuck