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Topic: The Dream Team.
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May 04, 2018 at
11:06:08 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on May 04 2018 at 02:28:24 AM
Its too late & I'm too tired now, but when i get a chance I'll look at results from the past few years....
or you could look it up if you really think you can prove me wrong...
What i posted was based on a fairly quick scan of results
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We may be looking at this from different perspectives. No doubt in the last 5-7 years the wins have been about even. So yes, from that perspective the Posse has held their own regarding Williams Grove. (I didn't look at all the PA tracks) And kudos to the Posse, because we all know that's the only area of the country where the locals do so well. How much of that is due to the configuration of WG is another topic for others. I for one don't buy in to that. The key to dirt track racing is adaptability. Right? Right! The WoO/Posse history at the joint bares that out. I too, don't believe the Posse is that much stronger than the Posse from years past. That Rahmer, Hodnett, Stevie and Dewease, old timers so to speak have had more success in recent years than the rest of the Posse says something. So I think actually the opposite. I think the WoO are weaker than in years past as a group. A quick look at the numbers and here's what I compiled. Since 2012: Posse 15 / WoO 14. Since 1978 Posse 65 / WoO 139. In Kinser's era 1978-2014 Posse 56 / WoO 94 (that's minus Kinser's wins). So Kinser did lose more often to Outlaw drivers over the years than Posse drivers. Now don't for a minute think this is a bashing episode on the Posse. NO other group of racers have done so well against the WoO. Do I need to repeat that or does every Posse fan reading this get the message?  Everybody knows that, or at least they should. My point is that try as we might to hang on what our locals do againet the WoO, they are still the dominant force when it comes to sprint car racing. The way things are trending when it comes to car counts around the country I'm afraid their dominace will only get stronger. Also take in to account that I didn't have a computer compile the numbers I'm sharing....I did a quick count off the WG History page on their website.
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May 04, 2018 at
11:58:36 AM
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Posted By: NWFAN on May 03 2018 at 04:08:26 PM
and Possee defeated by a 16 year old kid from N California, Geo Scelzi...
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He was very impressive in the Indy #71. Can't wait to see him race the next 2 nights. Cali. has produced a lot of good drivers in recent years.
A
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May 04, 2018 at
12:40:17 PM
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Posted By: blazer00 on May 04 2018 at 11:06:08 AM
We may be looking at this from different perspectives. No doubt in the last 5-7 years the wins have been about even. So yes, from that perspective the Posse has held their own regarding Williams Grove. (I didn't look at all the PA tracks) And kudos to the Posse, because we all know that's the only area of the country where the locals do so well. How much of that is due to the configuration of WG is another topic for others. I for one don't buy in to that. The key to dirt track racing is adaptability. Right? Right! The WoO/Posse history at the joint bares that out. I too, don't believe the Posse is that much stronger than the Posse from years past. That Rahmer, Hodnett, Stevie and Dewease, old timers so to speak have had more success in recent years than the rest of the Posse says something. So I think actually the opposite. I think the WoO are weaker than in years past as a group. A quick look at the numbers and here's what I compiled. Since 2012: Posse 15 / WoO 14. Since 1978 Posse 65 / WoO 139. In Kinser's era 1978-2014 Posse 56 / WoO 94 (that's minus Kinser's wins). So Kinser did lose more often to Outlaw drivers over the years than Posse drivers. Now don't for a minute think this is a bashing episode on the Posse. NO other group of racers have done so well against the WoO. Do I need to repeat that or does every Posse fan reading this get the message? Everybody knows that, or at least they should. My point is that try as we might to hang on what our locals do againet the WoO, they are still the dominant force when it comes to sprint car racing. The way things are trending when it comes to car counts around the country I'm afraid their dominace will only get stronger. Also take in to account that I didn't have a computer compile the numbers I'm sharing....I did a quick count off the WG History page on their website.
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I would like to clarify.......when you say WoO vs. Posse, you are only speaking at Posse tracks, correct? If I do the quick math in my head, I believe that is what you are saying.
My main point to add to this would be, what happens if we add all of the races where a strong contingency of Posse cars competed against the Outlaws? The winning percentage of the Posse would plummet I believe.
CA drivers fare well against the WoO in Cali. Posse drivers fare very well against the WoO in PA. Knoxville drivers sneak a win out here and there against the WoO in Knoxville, Jackson, and formerly Husets. However, that success against the Outlaws falls off the map when all sides hit unfamiliar territory at the same time. WoO dominates. Just the way it is. The numbers are there to back it up year in and year out.
Congrats to all PA fans for your extremely strong group of 410's. Most of us are jealous. Stop pretending the teams out there are more than they really are-----which is simply a group which is really good at defending home turf.
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May 04, 2018 at
12:42:08 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on May 04 2018 at 11:06:08 AM
We may be looking at this from different perspectives. No doubt in the last 5-7 years the wins have been about even. So yes, from that perspective the Posse has held their own regarding Williams Grove. (I didn't look at all the PA tracks) And kudos to the Posse, because we all know that's the only area of the country where the locals do so well. How much of that is due to the configuration of WG is another topic for others. I for one don't buy in to that. The key to dirt track racing is adaptability. Right? Right! The WoO/Posse history at the joint bares that out. I too, don't believe the Posse is that much stronger than the Posse from years past. That Rahmer, Hodnett, Stevie and Dewease, old timers so to speak have had more success in recent years than the rest of the Posse says something. So I think actually the opposite. I think the WoO are weaker than in years past as a group. A quick look at the numbers and here's what I compiled. Since 2012: Posse 15 / WoO 14. Since 1978 Posse 65 / WoO 139. In Kinser's era 1978-2014 Posse 56 / WoO 94 (that's minus Kinser's wins). So Kinser did lose more often to Outlaw drivers over the years than Posse drivers. Now don't for a minute think this is a bashing episode on the Posse. NO other group of racers have done so well against the WoO. Do I need to repeat that or does every Posse fan reading this get the message? Everybody knows that, or at least they should. My point is that try as we might to hang on what our locals do againet the WoO, they are still the dominant force when it comes to sprint car racing. The way things are trending when it comes to car counts around the country I'm afraid their dominace will only get stronger. Also take in to account that I didn't have a computer compile the numbers I'm sharing....I did a quick count off the WG History page on their website.
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(by the way I was adding to your comments as I agree with you)
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May 04, 2018 at
01:49:01 PM
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Posted By: egras on May 04 2018 at 12:40:17 PM
I would like to clarify.......when you say WoO vs. Posse, you are only speaking at Posse tracks, correct? If I do the quick math in my head, I believe that is what you are saying.
My main point to add to this would be, what happens if we add all of the races where a strong contingency of Posse cars competed against the Outlaws? The winning percentage of the Posse would plummet I believe.
CA drivers fare well against the WoO in Cali. Posse drivers fare very well against the WoO in PA. Knoxville drivers sneak a win out here and there against the WoO in Knoxville, Jackson, and formerly Husets. However, that success against the Outlaws falls off the map when all sides hit unfamiliar territory at the same time. WoO dominates. Just the way it is. The numbers are there to back it up year in and year out.
Congrats to all PA fans for your extremely strong group of 410's. Most of us are jealous. Stop pretending the teams out there are more than they really are-----which is simply a group which is really good at defending home turf.
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The numbers I put together were only Williams Grove numbers. I didn't tally the other PA tracks, but I think history will show that the Posse has most of their success at WG. Also I'd like to add that when a driver running the Outlaw schedule that was from Posse land, like Stevie or Bobby and a couple others, I tallied the win as a Posse win. And yes, remove the Posse from PA and their stats fall off the charts.
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May 04, 2018 at
02:10:02 PM
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Posted By: blazer00 on May 04 2018 at 11:06:08 AM
We may be looking at this from different perspectives. No doubt in the last 5-7 years the wins have been about even. So yes, from that perspective the Posse has held their own regarding Williams Grove. (I didn't look at all the PA tracks) And kudos to the Posse, because we all know that's the only area of the country where the locals do so well. How much of that is due to the configuration of WG is another topic for others. I for one don't buy in to that. The key to dirt track racing is adaptability. Right? Right! The WoO/Posse history at the joint bares that out. I too, don't believe the Posse is that much stronger than the Posse from years past. That Rahmer, Hodnett, Stevie and Dewease, old timers so to speak have had more success in recent years than the rest of the Posse says something. So I think actually the opposite. I think the WoO are weaker than in years past as a group. A quick look at the numbers and here's what I compiled. Since 2012: Posse 15 / WoO 14. Since 1978 Posse 65 / WoO 139. In Kinser's era 1978-2014 Posse 56 / WoO 94 (that's minus Kinser's wins). So Kinser did lose more often to Outlaw drivers over the years than Posse drivers. Now don't for a minute think this is a bashing episode on the Posse. NO other group of racers have done so well against the WoO. Do I need to repeat that or does every Posse fan reading this get the message? Everybody knows that, or at least they should. My point is that try as we might to hang on what our locals do againet the WoO, they are still the dominant force when it comes to sprint car racing. The way things are trending when it comes to car counts around the country I'm afraid their dominace will only get stronger. Also take in to account that I didn't have a computer compile the numbers I'm sharing....I did a quick count off the WG History page on their website.
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For one thing, I don't think rational Posse fans (excluding kids and adults who act like kids) ever claimed the Posse to have better than a 25 or 30 percent winning persentage against the Outlaws. The thing with track configuration, they have raced at the Grove 6 or 8 times a year almost since they have existed. There have been times when the younger Posse guys have won that they actually had fewer laps around the place than the older Outlaws. As far as Kinser's wins most of them came when he was dominating the sport. I don't know when he last won but it has been a while since he has won many there. When he was doing his winning he didn;t often get beat by other Outlaws either. As far as the Dream Team I stated somewhere that given the track conditions at Mansfield it didn't suprise me at all that the results were what they were. I say that as a non Dewease fan who has watched him his whole career. It won't suprise if you don't see them back. I have seen him leave a track without racing when the track was rough.
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May 04, 2018 at
02:48:16 PM
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Posted By: longtimefan on May 04 2018 at 02:10:02 PM
For one thing, I don't think rational Posse fans (excluding kids and adults who act like kids) ever claimed the Posse to have better than a 25 or 30 percent winning persentage against the Outlaws. The thing with track configuration, they have raced at the Grove 6 or 8 times a year almost since they have existed. There have been times when the younger Posse guys have won that they actually had fewer laps around the place than the older Outlaws. As far as Kinser's wins most of them came when he was dominating the sport. I don't know when he last won but it has been a while since he has won many there. When he was doing his winning he didn;t often get beat by other Outlaws either. As far as the Dream Team I stated somewhere that given the track conditions at Mansfield it didn't suprise me at all that the results were what they were. I say that as a non Dewease fan who has watched him his whole career. It won't suprise if you don't see them back. I have seen him leave a track without racing when the track was rough.
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Kinser last won at the Grove in 2012. I think his last race at the Grove was in 2014. He made selct WoO appearances in 2015, but none at the Grove I'm pretty sure. You may have missed the number, but Kinser did lose 94 times at the Grove to other WoO drivers and quite often while in his prime. The breakdown is on the History page of the WG website: WoO Wins by Year. As for Dewease at Mansfield, I thought going in he had as much chance as Brown or Madsen. I guess I was unaware of his distaste or whatever ya want to call it for rough tracks. As a full time traveller, he would have had to sit out many a race if that were the case.
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May 04, 2018 at
05:09:47 PM
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Posted By: blazer00 on May 03 2018 at 01:22:39 AM
It's not about Lance......it's about the lame brain fans (a minority) that think because he rules at home that he would rule anywhere. Maybe you fit into the Dreamer category. Lance is very much real in where he fits in the world of sprint car racing. He's sure not the braggart some of his fans are, so maybe it's you that needs to coach him on his victory interviews. Jealous??? Not a damn bit. Dream Teams only happen once in a great while, but of course you wouldn't understand that. I have not once bashed Lance Dewease's achievements in a sprint car. I'm well aware of his accomplishents. He is interesting to listen to, and has a lot of knowledge about what has taken place during his entire career and before. Have you watched and listened to his interviews/discussions on video from the EMMR? Some damn good stuff. Maybe you should take a listen.
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I don't recall any Posse fans saying Lance would "rule".
All we said was that we think he has a chance... & I still think so
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May 04, 2018 at
05:19:38 PM
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This message was edited on
May 04, 2018 at
05:29:25 PM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on May 04 2018 at 11:06:08 AM
We may be looking at this from different perspectives. No doubt in the last 5-7 years the wins have been about even. So yes, from that perspective the Posse has held their own regarding Williams Grove. (I didn't look at all the PA tracks) And kudos to the Posse, because we all know that's the only area of the country where the locals do so well. How much of that is due to the configuration of WG is another topic for others. I for one don't buy in to that. The key to dirt track racing is adaptability. Right? Right! The WoO/Posse history at the joint bares that out. I too, don't believe the Posse is that much stronger than the Posse from years past. That Rahmer, Hodnett, Stevie and Dewease, old timers so to speak have had more success in recent years than the rest of the Posse says something. So I think actually the opposite. I think the WoO are weaker than in years past as a group. A quick look at the numbers and here's what I compiled. Since 2012: Posse 15 / WoO 14. Since 1978 Posse 65 / WoO 139. In Kinser's era 1978-2014 Posse 56 / WoO 94 (that's minus Kinser's wins). So Kinser did lose more often to Outlaw drivers over the years than Posse drivers. Now don't for a minute think this is a bashing episode on the Posse. NO other group of racers have done so well against the WoO. Do I need to repeat that or does every Posse fan reading this get the message? Everybody knows that, or at least they should. My point is that try as we might to hang on what our locals do againet the WoO, they are still the dominant force when it comes to sprint car racing. The way things are trending when it comes to car counts around the country I'm afraid their dominace will only get stronger. Also take in to account that I didn't have a computer compile the numbers I'm sharing....I did a quick count off the WG History page on their website.
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Thanks for doing the research for me... (I'm at New Orleans Jazzfest, busy & tired....hard work having too much fun at 67!)
I was disagreeing with somebody who was bragging about Midwest as the hotbed, meaning to look up Knoxville locals vs. WoO. From a quick glance looks like Knoxville boys beat Outlaws every now & then....
I don't think anybody is disputing that WoO is the dominant force overall, or that Kinser was The King....
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May 04, 2018 at
06:17:24 PM
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Posted By: revjimk on May 04 2018 at 05:19:38 PM
Thanks for doing the research for me... (I'm at New Orleans Jazzfest, busy & tired....hard work having too much fun at 67!)
I was disagreeing with somebody who was bragging about Midwest as the hotbed, meaning to look up Knoxville locals vs. WoO. From a quick glance looks like Knoxville boys beat Outlaws every now & then....
I don't think anybody is disputing that WoO is the dominant force overall, or that Kinser was The King....
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Actually I think if you look at how the recent Knoxville/Jackson guys do against the Outlaws, you'll find they have probaly won more WoO features away from Knoxville than thay have at Knoxville. McCarl even has a win at the Grove. That may have been when he was running with the Outlaws, but still........When I did my tally of WoO vs Posse at WG I counted Stevie's wins and Bobby's wins and Kauffmans wins when they were on the Outlaw tour as Posse wins. I figured they were still home town drivers so to speak and had Posse blood in their veins. Do the same with Wolfgang's wins, Schatz's, Dollansky's and Lasoski's WoO wins at just Knoxville and things balance out much better for the Midwest guys vs WoO at home. So both groups have done well. Depends on how a person tallies the numbers, and how the eras are looked at. More Midwest drivers went on the WoO tour over the years than Posse drivers, so that overall tally isn't really even close.
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May 04, 2018 at
09:47:05 PM
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The Dream Team moniker for Dewease/Kreitz/Brown Sr. probably came from the limited amout of time they ran and the success they had against the Posse and the Outlaws in Central PA. Nothing more. Just because they are called the Dream Team like Wolfgang/Weikert/Brown Sr. & Jr./Grenoble doesn't mean they are the equivalent. That mid-1980s team did things that may not be replicated.
I don't know how much Dewease or Kreitz has run Mansfield before, but I'm sure it hasn't been often (as Knoxville). One race doesn't mean a thing & I agree that Lance (& the team) would have a better chance at Knoxville than Mansfield. Lance used to run the Nationals every year, but I'm sure he didn't race at Mansfield every year for approximately 20 years.
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May 05, 2018 at
12:52:09 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: NWFAN on April 30 2018 at 07:47:45 PM
the point was who cares who he is, pay attention, let him fail...not about typing, about attitude...dat all, ovah and out
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stfu! I met you at chico one year a long time back and you were about as sharp as a bowling bowl.....so stop while you still have a few numbers left on the IQ! You may need it!
Where's my beer or scotch on the rocks? God-damn it! 40
plus years of dirt track racing in these old veins might
get me condemned by the EPA.
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May 05, 2018 at
03:58:54 AM
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Posted By: PA Posse Fan on May 04 2018 at 09:47:05 PM
The Dream Team moniker for Dewease/Kreitz/Brown Sr. probably came from the limited amout of time they ran and the success they had against the Posse and the Outlaws in Central PA. Nothing more. Just because they are called the Dream Team like Wolfgang/Weikert/Brown Sr. & Jr./Grenoble doesn't mean they are the equivalent. That mid-1980s team did things that may not be replicated.
I don't know how much Dewease or Kreitz has run Mansfield before, but I'm sure it hasn't been often (as Knoxville). One race doesn't mean a thing & I agree that Lance (& the team) would have a better chance at Knoxville than Mansfield. Lance used to run the Nationals every year, but I'm sure he didn't race at Mansfield every year for approximately 20 years.
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Nobody had any experience at Mansfield to speak of. The track was paved previous to last year, and not many events there til now.
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May 05, 2018 at
07:27:35 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on May 05 2018 at 03:58:54 AM
Nobody had any experience at Mansfield to speak of. The track was paved previous to last year, and not many events there til now.
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I believe they ran 2 or 3 410 shows there last year. The teams that ran those shows would at least have a base set-up to start from.
A
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May 05, 2018 at
10:58:08 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on May 05 2018 at 07:27:35 AM
I believe they ran 2 or 3 410 shows there last year. The teams that ran those shows would at least have a base set-up to start from.
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No excuses necessary. Sometimes you win, sometmes you lose
Non qualifier race made feel a bit better....
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May 12, 2018 at
08:59:25 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on May 05 2018 at 10:58:08 AM
No excuses necessary. Sometimes you win, sometmes you lose
Non qualifier race made feel a bit better....
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They got knocked down at Mansfield. They came out swinging at Williamsgrove last night. A mark of a great team.......just saying!
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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May 12, 2018 at
11:51:14 AM
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This message was edited on
May 12, 2018 at
11:53:52 AM by blazer00
Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on May 12 2018 at 08:59:25 AM
They got knocked down at Mansfield. They came out swinging at Williamsgrove last night. A mark of a great team.......just saying!
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Oh how sweet it is to be home again! Brian Brown returned home too, after a rather rough road trip and won his first Knoxville feature of the year last Saturday night. Brown was fast while on the road but that didn't translate into much as far good finishes. Maybe a home stint will be a good recharge for both Brown and Dewease.
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