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Topic: David Gravel - Any official word on what broke? Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Nickules
August 16, 2017 at 10:55:12 AM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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Posted By: BigRightRear on August 16 2017 at 09:07:51 AM

was always curious about this fabled "month of money"...perhaps more accurately defined as a "transfer of wealth"?

say you already have the equipment / rig and crew...would $100 a lap be a starting point to budget wear and tear for Kville next year as a team looks at getting "off the porch"?

granted the initial investment might be $300k of equipment / rig just to lift your leg in preparation for the first step...



I'd say you're probably right to use that as a "starting point" but there are a ton of factors at play, including the increased travel.  Our $1k figure per night breaks down on our "balance sheet" as your normal costs - fuel, tires, gas for hauler, crew, % of engine refresh (i.e. if we know a refresh costs $6kish and we get X number of nights before we need a refresh, then each night cost $X), etc. but does not include say a part failure or flip or whatever.  That's above and beyond, but we do try and figure some of that cost into the $1k figure.  Since you'll be traveling much further and since Kville is a big, fast 1/2 mile, etc. I'd say $100 per lap would be a good starting point, but added expenses of hotel, food, etc. (again if you choose to use those in your equation - you may not and simply see it as "overhead") then it'd probably go up.  But good starting point.  Maybe talk to other PA teams and get their thoughts if they'd share (I'm sure they would).  Ask DD, he's done it for a few years now.  Also, once it's all said and done don't forget to figure in your purse (but when doing this exercise you have to make a "best guess" at your purse, but also a "shit this would be sweet to win" purse and a "shit we sucked" purse).   



threadkillllllller
MyWebsite
August 16, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM
Joined: 01/31/2012
Posts: 993
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Posted By: vande77 on August 16 2017 at 09:40:45 AM

doubtful any more than he already won.  Don't recall Steve bing in contention for the win in 83 (Sammy), 85-86 (the Wolf), 89 (the Wolf), 90 (Allen) or many other years when he didn't win.

As I recall, they had a lot of Open Red's during Steve's career.  Outside of the year that Stevie Smith led a majority until it rained (BTW - Karl made no changes under Red) - the fastest car won pretty much every year except 1990 (Steve and Mark were both far superior to the field, but neither finished the race).



The year you are referring to with Stevie was 1993 and I was there. It was actually raining right from the drop of the green flag like a heavy mist that continued until they had to throw a yellow and decided to throw the red which was an open red. Obviously the track changed throughout the main event. I will admit that I did not see Karl Kinser make changes to the car but the legend always has been that it was all over when Karl had a chance to get to the car. That may just be legend. It's been a lot of years and unless somebody with direct knowledge of the situation can come forward that is what it will probably always be. Stevie Smith said in his post race interview that they did not make any changes to the car during that red so that part we know.



BigRightRear
August 16, 2017 at 12:38:10 PM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3751
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Posted By: Nickules on August 16 2017 at 10:55:12 AM

I'd say you're probably right to use that as a "starting point" but there are a ton of factors at play, including the increased travel.  Our $1k figure per night breaks down on our "balance sheet" as your normal costs - fuel, tires, gas for hauler, crew, % of engine refresh (i.e. if we know a refresh costs $6kish and we get X number of nights before we need a refresh, then each night cost $X), etc. but does not include say a part failure or flip or whatever.  That's above and beyond, but we do try and figure some of that cost into the $1k figure.  Since you'll be traveling much further and since Kville is a big, fast 1/2 mile, etc. I'd say $100 per lap would be a good starting point, but added expenses of hotel, food, etc. (again if you choose to use those in your equation - you may not and simply see it as "overhead") then it'd probably go up.  But good starting point.  Maybe talk to other PA teams and get their thoughts if they'd share (I'm sure they would).  Ask DD, he's done it for a few years now.  Also, once it's all said and done don't forget to figure in your purse (but when doing this exercise you have to make a "best guess" at your purse, but also a "shit this would be sweet to win" purse and a "shit we sucked" purse).   



Understood...size matters in life...$100 of wear and tear without bustin' shit / nice hotels with a steak dinner sounds like a good place to start.

I don't have a team / car or driver nor do I ever intend too...but locals here migh benefit from knowing this if they want to pony up and help one of our local operations budget for a race trip.


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May


Nickules
August 16, 2017 at 12:44:36 PM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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Posted By: BigRightRear on August 16 2017 at 12:38:10 PM

Understood...size matters in life...$100 of wear and tear without bustin' shit / nice hotels with a steak dinner sounds like a good place to start.

I don't have a team / car or driver nor do I ever intend too...but locals here migh benefit from knowing this if they want to pony up and help one of our local operations budget for a race trip.



Understood.  There's also enough guys (Lucas Wolfe, Zemco, DD, Brent Marks, Heffner/Hodnett etc.) who have made the haul from PA the past number of years so they can hopefully be a better resource too to prospective teams and drivers looking to go to Kville.  You also see the trend of teams/owners sort of "partnering up" to run series (think Ryan Smith) or high profile races (think Trey Starks) so combined resources and sponsorship helps as well.  Good question, thanks for bringing it to the discussion. 



chilly
August 16, 2017 at 12:51:12 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 975
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Posted By: vande77 on August 16 2017 at 09:40:45 AM

doubtful any more than he already won.  Don't recall Steve bing in contention for the win in 83 (Sammy), 85-86 (the Wolf), 89 (the Wolf), 90 (Allen) or many other years when he didn't win.

As I recall, they had a lot of Open Red's during Steve's career.  Outside of the year that Stevie Smith led a majority until it rained (BTW - Karl made no changes under Red) - the fastest car won pretty much every year except 1990 (Steve and Mark were both far superior to the field, but neither finished the race).



As threadkilllller alluded to a little bit, I always thought it was the exact opposite during the red flag rain delay in '93... that Stevie & team didn't touch the 77, and Karl made some major changes to the 11.  Given that Stevie's car was a rocketship prior to the red flag... and Steve's was fairly average... made sense to me.  Maybe I'm wrong though.  



chilly
August 16, 2017 at 12:53:15 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 975
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Posted By: threadkillllllller on August 16 2017 at 12:08:01 PM

The year you are referring to with Stevie was 1993 and I was there. It was actually raining right from the drop of the green flag like a heavy mist that continued until they had to throw a yellow and decided to throw the red which was an open red. Obviously the track changed throughout the main event. I will admit that I did not see Karl Kinser make changes to the car but the legend always has been that it was all over when Karl had a chance to get to the car. That may just be legend. It's been a lot of years and unless somebody with direct knowledge of the situation can come forward that is what it will probably always be. Stevie Smith said in his post race interview that they did not make any changes to the car during that red so that part we know.



I believe the red flag was displayed for McCarl flipping (hard) on the front stretch... which was likely pretty directly related to the precipitation falling from the sky.  




threadkillllllller
MyWebsite
August 16, 2017 at 01:01:39 PM
Joined: 01/31/2012
Posts: 993
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Posted By: chilly on August 16 2017 at 12:53:15 PM

I believe the red flag was displayed for McCarl flipping (hard) on the front stretch... which was likely pretty directly related to the precipitation falling from the sky.  



I know Terry thought they were nuts for letting them run that long with the rain. I could never remember for sure if it was him that caused them to stop the race.



vande77
August 16, 2017 at 01:54:41 PM
Joined: 01/20/2005
Posts: 2079
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Posted By: chilly on August 16 2017 at 12:51:12 PM

As threadkilllller alluded to a little bit, I always thought it was the exact opposite during the red flag rain delay in '93... that Stevie & team didn't touch the 77, and Karl made some major changes to the 11.  Given that Stevie's car was a rocketship prior to the red flag... and Steve's was fairly average... made sense to me.  Maybe I'm wrong though.  



Steve was asked that exact question during Hall of Fame weekend a few years ago when Mark was inducted. 

He said they made Zero changes under the Red and a lot of times all he did was bang wrenches together to make Steve think he made changes to the car during open red flag periods.

Now maybe Karl was fibbing, but I doubt it.



vande77
August 16, 2017 at 01:56:20 PM
Joined: 01/20/2005
Posts: 2079
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Posted By: threadkillllllller on August 16 2017 at 01:01:39 PM

I know Terry thought they were nuts for letting them run that long with the rain. I could never remember for sure if it was him that caused them to stop the race.



yep, it was Terry crashing on the frontstetch as I recall.  Brand new car too I think.




Wesmar
August 16, 2017 at 09:27:55 PM
Joined: 09/29/2005
Posts: 626
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Knoxville, 'Nuff Said





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