Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Both.  He got the best available ride in the world because Tony thinks he is the best available driver in the world. 

Kind of a chicken/egg deal.

No doubt Donny is good and will likely end up in the history books as the one of the best. But you say the 15 is winning on brainpower whereas the 11 was superior car/horsepower? If the 11 was a superior car how do you think it got to be that way? It wasn't because it was better financed or the parts were mail ordered, it was the brainpower in Karl's head that made it superior, and steve's ability to carry the car until the track came to him. And man against boys? That's laughable!  How many hall of famere was steve racing against versus what's at a WoO show now? And I'm not taking anything away from the current travelers at all. 

I think what everybody keeps getting at with Steve is there were around 3-5 cars with the best of the best equipment while he was dominant. Take that with a much more open rule book and the best mind in sprint car racing (Karl) and you have a team that is way above and beyond the rest. 

Fast forward to now. Take any given Outlaw show and you have a minimum of 15 cars with the same quality equipment. A very tight rule book that minimizes, if not eliminates, any thinking outside the box. To be as dominant as Schatz and crew are right now is nothing short of amazing. 

I hear what you're saying about Donny & I agree... what they are doing is amazing. But you say that at any given outlaw show there are 15 cars with equal equipment and that is mostly true but realistically there are only 3-5 cars that have a honest shot at a win. So how is it that much different? And look at Steve's record at the Grove....certainly where he faced a full field of quality cars, I believe he is somewhere around the top 5 in all time feature winners there whilst only running there 6-8 times per year!!! And it wasn't just Karl's car that he was good in.... I've seen him win in Johnny Vances dirt champ car. And don't forget the time the CRA came to the Midwest & offered up a $10K bonus to anyone who could beat them at eldora. I remember Shuman standing on the front stretch that day proclaiming that if the WoO had ran more non wing that he'd have more wins than steve....steve lapped Shuman that day and passed Bubby jones for the win....and this was with his first NW start in a decade. 

The way I see it the 15 has some things goin for it. The first being longevity, while everybody else is changing things & crew, the 15 is status quo. Secondly, Ricky Warner, a Karl Kinser student who still talks to him on a regular basis.   There are certainly more things  

You hit on some things that are too often overlooked regarding the "other " things Steve Kinser did that were great and set him apart. One of those things is that he did compete and win not only without Karl, but also against Karl. And during his career and in his prime there were 12-15 drivers capable of winning, just like today, and as you stated 3-5 cars with realistic chances of winning. Is Schatz doing some gret things? Absolutely! And while Kinser may have had the best equippment and the more open rule book to work with, todays rule book rewards the wealthiest teams and that's evident in where the majority of the wins are going year in and year out. Just as it was when the best equipped teams won in years past. It's absolutely laughable when critics say Kinser had the easier path to his accomplishments because he had lesser talent to compete against. The "Big 3" were real, and the rest where good.  Even with todays high dollar teams, there is no Big 3.....only a Big 1 .......and the rest are good. As in Kinser's day, the one thing that mirrors  Schatz's accomplishments to the King's is the simple fact that he has stayed with the same essential program for so long. The "rest of the best" competeing today still don't have the team longevity to do great things. And that makes it evident that those other drivers today also don't have the entire talent needed to carry even a well funded team to great things because of their abilities. There will probably only ever be one "Big 3". One who had it all......and two that could win big and carry a team without having it all. 

Seems ptetty obvious to me the 24 gave that race away more anyone won it. 24. Thsts just one particular race, but afterall is what started this thread. Nevertheless congrats to the 24 and 1s on great runs. Congrats to the 15 on another checkered flag and trophy handed to ya. Lol take it easy folks

We forget so quickly. Consider 1995 to 2004. Donny got his but handed to him for 10 years.  

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Yea. Somebody should look up the records when Donnie & Steve were both driving.

I'm too busy right now....

Found the time.....

From my quicky research, it appears from Schatz 1st season, 1996, thru Kinser's last, 2015, Schatz won 204 races, Kinser won 177,  Steve won 6 championships to Schatz' 8. I could be wrong, was adding & reading in a hurry. Looks like Kinser sat out 2006

Don't know what that tells us, Kinser was on the way down & Donnie on the way up

Haven't checked Knoxville..

OK, just checked Knoxville. No contest.... Steve only won once since Donnie has been running Nationals. I didn't even bother counting Schatz wins, we all know about that

All said, I have no opinion on who was better.... we'll never know

We will never know, but we can have enjoyable banter about it and we can all be darn thankful that we got to watch them race.

.  

yep

2006 was the year of the split and most of the top guys from 2005 went to National Sprint Tour. It was also the year the game shifted and schatz became the top guy.

donny suck fest on here is old people so wipe the spooge off your lips from sucking him off and talk about something else like hall of famer greg wilson that he is going against or incredible winning junk race cars that bobby allen has going against him or top tier winner jason sides that is running against the greatest crosseyed racer ever Donny schatz C-mon man!!!!!!!

you guys act like Kinser isnt shit when he raced legends dummies okay legends!!!!

Donny isnt racing against anybody even worthy of making the hall and if so who????

when donny raced with them guys i call legends and speedsport calls legends then try to remember he sucked ass

donny is not a pimple on kinsers ass or swindell's for that matter 

sammy can do it by himself where as steve and donny have to have a wrench and you know it

donny can only race a wing and that makes him the greatest 

Hoseheads is full of dumbass trollers that dont know much about sprint car racing or young lebron's the best ever fans and have blinders on about everything

whats history for if we dont learn a damn thing from it?

better yet keep your schatz up your ass and have a nice day

Yes-Karl never had alot of money behind him.  He built most of the engines in his shop and at times back then he built cars for him self.  If you look at pictures of his cars in the 1970 s era they look like a back of the pack 305 run off of a paper route income.  They were crude looking by to days standards.  I have seen him race at Knoxville with just him in pits and Steve.  They were not getting along well.  Karl ran his own ship and worked very hard at it and he earned every thing he got.  It is very hard to compare then and now, but Karl never had a money advantage over anyone in his day.  He did work harder than alot of them.

Sober up.....

No drinking & typing, please....

Funny thing is, when I started this thread, I almost didn't hit send for fear that it would be turned into a pissing match and/or hate thread by some troglodyte spewing unnecessary hatred for the guy just because he doesn't like the fact that he wins so much. Thankfully, we instead had 3 pages of good discussion from the many awesome people who post on this board until now......

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

That being said, Donny needs to win about 150 more races and a few more championships before I'd rank him ahead of Kinser.  Kinser has the advantage of having raced more years to rack up more stats, so we'll see where he ends up.... I have a feeling that this year is gonna be a painful one for the rest of the Outlaws.