Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Wow. That was pretty cut and dried and if this race was at Petaluma, Stewart would have been declared the winner. At the Promoters Workshop in Reno, during AMB's own seminar, one of the first things they say is the human element should always overrule the transponder element when it comes to close finishes and they state a few factors already brought up in this thread. There was already precedence set at a track where transponders were overruled when Swanson beat Clauson at a USAC race. The loop was 15-20 feet past the finish line and Clauson had a huge run but didn't get there before the flagstand, but did at the loop. Swanson was declared winner over the transponder scoring. Difference at loop was .008. 

Also Shane leads at white flag and runs a 15.719 to Shatz's 15.682 on the last lap, how does that add up to .22? Wasn't there a famous NASCAR race years ago that the outcome was changed days later and gave Lee Petty the victory? That race is still one of the most important races in their history, why, because in the end they got the call right. I don't expect the WoO will do the same but if they did they would gain a lot of credibility with its fans who give them all a paycheck.

Looks like the video is taken before the flagstand which would give us a decieving angle.  I would count on the transponders more than a video shot on an angle.

Both ASCS National Tour and WoO both place them at the RF corner. In the Picture you can just see the red transponder.

Either way, Shane's leading coming off of 4 and leading going into 1, how does Shatz get 2 full car lengths ahead in straightaway regardless of where video is filmed from. If that's all the better transponders can do I would trust them much less than any other way to decide a race.

Watch the video again.  While there isn't a dedicated flag stand I am under the impression that the Genie Lift in the infield where the flagger is running the race from is representative of where the start finish line.  This is more of a case of where the more and more I watch the replay the more and more convinced I am of a transponder error.  Slow the video down and watch it.  There has also been another incident (with Indycars) where a similar problem occurred a number of years ago and improper installation can cause this. 

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/upside-down-error-indycar

And also another instance where it screwed up the timing and scoring for a restart in a Nascar race.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/2606148-edwards-and-stewart-mistakes-make-for-nascar-drama/

Perhaps somone pressed the time trial voodoo button on the timing system on the last lap of the race rather than the last lap of Donny's TT?

meanwhile...Brian Paulus' track record at Williams Grove still stands.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

My observations are as follows:

1. By looking at the video, it sure appeared as if Stewart won

2. Shane Stewart may be a contender for the WoO title this year. That team has come out strong at as of right now, it looks as if they're going to be right there with the 9 and the 15 all season long.

3. So much for the WoO struggling without Steve and Sammy. 

4. Stockton looks like and extremely racey joint. Wish it was a little closer to Pennsylvania

From the camera angle i saw too looked like Shane 

I Too thought Shane Stewart won when i looked at video

The margin of victory is the dead give away that something is wrong.  Two tenths of a second at those speeds is not a photo finish.  You could spin the camera angle and scoring loop location story if the gap was extremely narrow, but anybody that races knows .2 seconds is more than what we all saw.

Transponders have been known to spit out some goofy numbers at times.  I don't think you can blindly rely on them in a circumstance like this.  There needs to be an element of common sense involved.

It looked like Stewart won to me....

But I agree he could give Schatz a run for his money this year, especially at Knoxville where's he's dominated 360s & been a hard charger in 410s. He seems to be getting used to 410 racing

Wish I could have been there....

Throwing out any video evidence and relying completely on the transponder data....there has to be a glitch in the software.   I am convinced that the problem was NOT caused by the location of the transponder within each car or the location of the wire loop on the track. 

Plain and simple.....the 2 tripped the wire first on the white flag lap, ran a 15.719, the 15 crossed the wires second and ran a 15.682    That means that the margin of victory should have been .037 or less.  

Sprintcarstats.com has another angle that shows Schatz as the clear winner. But it's from a different angle. Based on that video I would say the transponder was correct and Donny won. 

Looked at the finish and have a couple issues.

Where is the finish line ?

The Outlaws are saying Schatz won by inches on the main page of their website, and in the artical saying won by .220 sec.  Im not a racer of a math guy but I would think .220 sec at 100 mph is not inches?  I would think it would be feet (est 5 to 10 ft).

Need a video camera on the line of the start/finish line not only on the inside but on the outside looking down the line. 

I hope that there is a way for and the series to look at this and make a final call even after the fact. 

Please post a link to that video. I went to their website and the latest stuff I'm seeing is blog postings from the end of February 

Haven't seen the video skidoo, does it show him winning by 25 feet(2 full car lengths)?

Shane says on Twitter he got beat fair and square...

This vid seems to show that too, but the Stewart lovers and Shatz haters will of course disagree.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=807593422611860

Here's my video from last night, different angle. https://youtu.be/JEYaS5NJ4kk