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Topic: Sam 15h back to 410 Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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dsc1600
October 16, 2019 at 04:33:04 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4373
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According to the great Bill V’s website, Reutzel has won $255k in 74 races this year. Sweet has won $546k In 73 races. Part of that is because Sweet won the biggest paying race but even if you take that out and Reutzels Tuscarora win, it’s $371k vs $203k in the same amount of races and roughly same amount of wins. And that’s before point money which is far better with the WoO.



Dryslick Willie
October 16, 2019 at 04:35:19 PM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 2235
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Posted By: El Wingador on October 16 2019 at 03:30:07 PM

Not really funny at all. Let's face it, at this point in time, Sam just isn't that interesting of a driver. What's has he done, really ?? Not being disrespectful, just stating the obvious. In a way this is a silly season thread unless backed up by proof, so until then people have picked out the parts of this thread that are interesting and are going off that.

But I know where your coming from, I’ve seen threads get highjacked before and I’ve even called people out before, like you did, I just didn’t call them douche bags. The only difference is, the time I called someone out was on a thread that had good subject matter and people were actually into it, unlike here. If it's true and Sam does go full time 410 racing I wish him luck and hope he can give us something new and refreshing to talk about here on HH, kind of like Reutzel has done this year.



I'll disagree that Sam hasn't done anything.   I think the reason you and possibly other people feel that way is that he comes from 360 racing.   He's a three time national ASCS champion and by the end of the year possibly four?   Reutzel has also been a hot topic on this thread, and Sam's accomplished more at 360 level that Reutzel has.   I can think of at least one other ASCS champ who went on to good things at 410 level too.   I will say that Sam didn't necessarily set the world on fire when he raced full time 410, but he did improve a good bit.   It took Jason Johnson awhile to be a front runner too.   Of course I may be biased towards Reutzel and Sam because they're Texas boys...



El Wingador
October 16, 2019 at 04:59:40 PM
Joined: 09/12/2015
Posts: 280
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on October 16 2019 at 04:35:19 PM

I'll disagree that Sam hasn't done anything.   I think the reason you and possibly other people feel that way is that he comes from 360 racing.   He's a three time national ASCS champion and by the end of the year possibly four?   Reutzel has also been a hot topic on this thread, and Sam's accomplished more at 360 level that Reutzel has.   I can think of at least one other ASCS champ who went on to good things at 410 level too.   I will say that Sam didn't necessarily set the world on fire when he raced full time 410, but he did improve a good bit.   It took Jason Johnson awhile to be a front runner too.   Of course I may be biased towards Reutzel and Sam because they're Texas boys...



It's no big secret that 360 racing get's no love here on HH. ASCS championships just don't really mean a whole lot to 410 fans, it's just the way it is. I'm not only biased towards Reutzel because I live in Texas too, but I live in his home town as well. I actually don't live to far from where he grew up.

Again, I hope Sam does well in 410 racing.




W2Motorsports
October 16, 2019 at 06:26:29 PM
Joined: 03/02/2017
Posts: 292
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on October 16 2019 at 04:35:19 PM

I'll disagree that Sam hasn't done anything.   I think the reason you and possibly other people feel that way is that he comes from 360 racing.   He's a three time national ASCS champion and by the end of the year possibly four?   Reutzel has also been a hot topic on this thread, and Sam's accomplished more at 360 level that Reutzel has.   I can think of at least one other ASCS champ who went on to good things at 410 level too.   I will say that Sam didn't necessarily set the world on fire when he raced full time 410, but he did improve a good bit.   It took Jason Johnson awhile to be a front runner too.   Of course I may be biased towards Reutzel and Sam because they're Texas boys...



I really enjoy the ASCS series, and Sam has definitely done a lot there. I think that people may be underwhelmed with his performance in 410s, even recently. Reutzel, even he was primarily running 360s did very well in his 410 starts. Hopefully Sam will get there as he can definitely wheel no question, but I do think comparing him to Retuzel would be setting him up for failure. 



Nick14
October 16, 2019 at 09:01:59 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
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Posted By: Dryslick Willie on October 16 2019 at 04:35:19 PM

I'll disagree that Sam hasn't done anything.   I think the reason you and possibly other people feel that way is that he comes from 360 racing.   He's a three time national ASCS champion and by the end of the year possibly four?   Reutzel has also been a hot topic on this thread, and Sam's accomplished more at 360 level that Reutzel has.   I can think of at least one other ASCS champ who went on to good things at 410 level too.   I will say that Sam didn't necessarily set the world on fire when he raced full time 410, but he did improve a good bit.   It took Jason Johnson awhile to be a front runner too.   Of course I may be biased towards Reutzel and Sam because they're Texas boys...



You make a good point about the 360 racing & people possibly not thinking he hasn't done anything. Winning 3-4 titles with the ASCS & all the races he has in those years is quite the accomplishment. I know about 10years ago when he was with the Outlaws he was not setting the world on fire. Seemed like he was on his lid more often than not. But I got to give him credit at reevaluating everything & developing himself the way he has. 

The way that he, Johnson, and Reutzel have gone about it is pretty smart. ASCS national tour to develop, build your program then go 410 racing. The All Stars give you an opportunity to race against great competition and allow you opportunity to race in some big Outlaws races. I think if he goes 410 racing again he is going to have a lot more success. Seemed to be fast years ago, just needed to get some polishing



SpcJay
October 17, 2019 at 07:29:27 AM
Joined: 01/29/2014
Posts: 430
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Blaney is in the ride, but I believe it;s more of a "Does he still want to race and do the ASCoC tour" deal..I think if he wants it, the 11 car is still his

87 car- I have been told they received quite the incentive to stay on the All Star Tour last year from Tony. And also, as stated above, in an article on the Oujtlaw website he states the OUTLAWS were the future plan, but not the immediate future plan.

Hobaugh- He;s going to come off the tour and run Central PA regularly next season

Eliason- I think his best bet is likely another year. He;s close, but needs some more consistency and I think if they want to make the jump, they'll need more sponsors to do the tour the just Rudeen.

 




HoldenCaulfield
October 17, 2019 at 04:35:41 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 2434
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Posted By: Nick14 on October 16 2019 at 03:56:51 PM

I don't think the Mansfield race is going to be happening. Nothing has officially been announced & this was the last year for the lease, not to say it couldn't happen at other tracks.

Even with the other two, there are several races that the Outlaws have run for 20K that the All Stars typically are not either so it cancels out the dirt classic. This past year with Nashville, I think Cedar Lake, Skagit, Lernerville, Williams Grove Summer Nationals, and a couple others along the way paid 20k or more. Not to mention you are racing for basically 10,000 to win as opposed to 5,000 each time 2,000 for 10th & 800 to start vs 1000 for 10th and 500 to start. A lot more pay on a consistent basis for the Outlaws and not everything that the Outlaws touch is evil like some feel. To me I don't care who are what is sanctioning the event. If the driving talent is there then I am fine with it. With the Outlaws in the OH PA area I know 100% the talent is there.

As for Sam. I'd like to see another good shoe traveling in the region. I view the all stars as a "development" region and it is one heck of a development region as well.



Yeah no doubt the WOO pays more but it's also much tougher to win that money and much more travel involved. I look at the outlaws as a national series of mostly mega-funded teams and the all-stars as, not so much a developmental, but a regional series that's on more even footing with the top local teams in PA and the mid-west. It would be nice to see the all-stars raise the purse and point fund, seems long overdue but I don't know if the support is there. Funny thing in central PA is that when the all-stars are at Port Royal or Lincoln, the stands are packed. When they are at the Grove, the place is a ghost town. That is one that I've never been able to understand, especially in recent years with the talent that's been on the all-star roster. Seems like the only shows that draw a crowd at the Grove anymore are speedweek and outlaw shows.


A

Pimpmobile38
October 18, 2019 at 09:32:40 AM
Joined: 11/21/2009
Posts: 63
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Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on October 17 2019 at 04:35:41 PM

Yeah no doubt the WOO pays more but it's also much tougher to win that money and much more travel involved. I look at the outlaws as a national series of mostly mega-funded teams and the all-stars as, not so much a developmental, but a regional series that's on more even footing with the top local teams in PA and the mid-west. It would be nice to see the all-stars raise the purse and point fund, seems long overdue but I don't know if the support is there. Funny thing in central PA is that when the all-stars are at Port Royal or Lincoln, the stands are packed. When they are at the Grove, the place is a ghost town. That is one that I've never been able to understand, especially in recent years with the talent that's been on the all-star roster. Seems like the only shows that draw a crowd at the Grove anymore are speedweek and outlaw shows.



Since Stewart took over with the All Stars it seems that the stands are packed nearly every show and car counts are well into the 40's most nights. While they have added more higher paying shows you'd think they'd be able to increase the normal purse and up the championship point fund. Especially with the bigger sponsors coming in and the increased sanctioning fees.



Nick14
October 18, 2019 at 10:20:20 AM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 1734
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Posted By: Pimpmobile38 on October 18 2019 at 09:32:40 AM

Since Stewart took over with the All Stars it seems that the stands are packed nearly every show and car counts are well into the 40's most nights. While they have added more higher paying shows you'd think they'd be able to increase the normal purse and up the championship point fund. Especially with the bigger sponsors coming in and the increased sanctioning fees.



Championship fund has increased across the entire top 10 plus I think there are more contingency for members. I also believe that the two money has increased but I do not know that for sure.

Plus the attendance & ticket money goes to the track. The All Stars, Outlaws, and other Sanctioning bodies only get paid through the sanctioning fee charged by the track that books a date with the All Stars and sponsorships. The Purse for the races are set by the track as well based on the set of required purse structures that are created by the All Stars. The sanctioning fees were also increased in order to pay the championship purse. The previous fees charged by the former Owners of the All Stars seemed to not cover this as several drivers were still owed money at seasons end.  




Hooper31
October 20, 2019 at 03:04:05 AM
Joined: 09/03/2017
Posts: 364
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Listened to a Sam interview on Winged Nation podcast. Sam's specific words were that his team wanted to "gear up" their 410 program. However, it sounds like they are only committed to two specific events. The finals at the end of this season, and the start of next year in Volusia. Other than that, there were no specifics for a plan going forward. 



beezr2002
October 20, 2019 at 09:16:13 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 1116
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Didn't Sam mentor a young lady driver on this team? I think a deal was made that Sam could get some 410 opportunities for helping out the younger driver and the team. I remember several years ago when Sam came in and ran PA speedweek, he performed very well and was a threat to win the title at one point.



steelcityguy
October 20, 2019 at 10:41:10 AM
Joined: 04/13/2014
Posts: 512
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Posted By: beezr2002 on October 20 2019 at 09:16:13 AM

Didn't Sam mentor a young lady driver on this team? I think a deal was made that Sam could get some 410 opportunities for helping out the younger driver and the team. I remember several years ago when Sam came in and ran PA speedweek, he performed very well and was a threat to win the title at one point.



His teammate in the 360s is Alex Hill #77.  I'm assuming that's who you mean.  I don't believe she's ever run a 410 but I could be wrong.




Johnny Utah
October 20, 2019 at 11:18:30 AM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1221
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Posted By: beezr2002 on October 20 2019 at 09:16:13 AM

Didn't Sam mentor a young lady driver on this team? I think a deal was made that Sam could get some 410 opportunities for helping out the younger driver and the team. I remember several years ago when Sam came in and ran PA speedweek, he performed very well and was a threat to win the title at one point.



Yup, 2013. As I recall, he won at Big Diamond and had a narrow Speedweek point lead up until the Saturday show at Port. He didnt have his best showing there and lost the lead. The next day was Selinsgrove and it rained out, so that was it, Hodnett took home the title over Rahmer, someone else, and Hafertepe.



BlakeAnderson
MyWebsite
October 21, 2019 at 11:19:43 AM
Joined: 07/06/2012
Posts: 85
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We raised our points fund $80,000 2 years ago (thanks, Tony).  

Also, tow money went up a few years ago.  Several tracks took the $6,000 to win $550 to start purse this past season.  They didnt have to take it.  We just offered it to them and they accepted.  Which was great.



IADIRT
October 21, 2019 at 12:00:26 PM
Joined: 04/29/2014
Posts: 1204
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The real question here if we’re gonna talk about series racing, is the ASCS National tour on life support?

 

if Sam leaves to go 410 racing, Ball dropped off to be closer to home, Wayne Johnson did the same to run a true outlaw schedule where he wanted to be, Chris Martin seemed to be running locally at the end of the year, and there are likely others...

They didn’t have great car counts if other locals didn’t show up either which makes me nervous going forward. I know a lot have said it’s the most travel for the least pay as far as a series go.  I hope they prosper and will continue to attend their events but they maybe need to look at some scheduling revisions to meet the needs of their racers.




MoOpenwheel
October 21, 2019 at 01:14:11 PM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: IADIRT on October 21 2019 at 12:00:26 PM

The real question here if we’re gonna talk about series racing, is the ASCS National tour on life support?

 

if Sam leaves to go 410 racing, Ball dropped off to be closer to home, Wayne Johnson did the same to run a true outlaw schedule where he wanted to be, Chris Martin seemed to be running locally at the end of the year, and there are likely others...

They didn’t have great car counts if other locals didn’t show up either which makes me nervous going forward. I know a lot have said it’s the most travel for the least pay as far as a series go.  I hope they prosper and will continue to attend their events but they maybe need to look at some scheduling revisions to meet the needs of their racers.



Payout.  Scheduling.  Motors.  Those are the three biggest issues.  



longtimemitchfan
October 21, 2019 at 05:28:59 PM
Joined: 06/27/2012
Posts: 749
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Sam did state on Winged Nation earlier in the year that he hoped to have a good year with ASCS then go full time 410 next year.

Last Winged Nation he said he would get everything ready for 410 in Florida and see where he stands no mention of anything else.





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