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Topic: WoO Going Forward
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Page 2 of 4 of 61 replies
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October 17, 2018 at
11:01:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Stroker_Race on October 17 2018 at 03:52:07 PM
Making the right rear tire narrower is not going to free up the cars. It will actually stick the car harder. Physics will prove this in a very simple manner. The wider the tire, the less the car is stuck. The bigger the surface area, the smaller the resistance per square inch. Take the same amount of weight and put it on a narrow tire and you still have the same weight pressing on a smaller area which makes the car "stuck" even harder. Physics 101 my friend.
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I am far from an engineer or a physics major but I also disagree with your statement. While I do agree that a larger surface area has less resistance per square inch. There is also more square inches on the track.
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October 17, 2018 at
11:11:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: frebyrd on October 17 2018 at 06:00:09 AM
If they have to do the dreaded time trials, please do 3 cars at a time. Nothing sucks the life out of a show like watching 50 cars take 2 laps.Also do away with the dashes, just another chance to wreck and very little passing anyway. At the end of the night the same fast guys are starting up front.
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I completely agree on hating time trials. However, the problem I see with scrapping time trials with the outlaws is how do you determine lineups fairly? Lets be honest the majority of outlaw races contain mostly locals or "invaders". So how can you make it fair for the locals and outlaws?
I guess I wish they would do something like having flights of roughly 15 cars that get a 5 minute session and do time trials that way. I'm not sure if it would speed up the show or not but as a fan it would seem that way.
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October 17, 2018 at
11:15:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Stroker_Race on October 17 2018 at 03:52:07 PM
Making the right rear tire narrower is not going to free up the cars. It will actually stick the car harder. Physics will prove this in a very simple manner. The wider the tire, the less the car is stuck. The bigger the surface area, the smaller the resistance per square inch. Take the same amount of weight and put it on a narrow tire and you still have the same weight pressing on a smaller area which makes the car "stuck" even harder. Physics 101 my friend.
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So, why don't they already run a narrower tire then?
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October 17, 2018 at
11:24:51 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 17 2018 at 09:00:37 PM
Not bashing your opinion, but I agree with Nick14. I have been to quite a few WoO races since the format change and I have yet to be disappointed in the night of racing as a whole.
That said, I have always liked this idea: (as I have stated here before)
1. Scrap time trials
2. Pill draw for heat #1
3. Run heats
4. Run heats again with a complete invert of starting spots
5. Give points for all finishing spots and line up the mains
6. Draw for invert for dash (as done now) Add finishing points of the dash to finishing points of the heats for A lineup---not necessarily how you finish the dash
???? Thoughts????? More racing---more action
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You can bash my opinion, I have no problem with that, it's when you bash ME because of my opinion that I have a problem lol. To be honest the problem with a nightly nationals format would be that people would come out to see their favorite outlaw driver not making the A-main. Maybe half or more of the full time regulars don't make the A and then that's not much fun either.
As for your format, I like it. The only changes I would make would be to scrap the dash and have a random draw for an invert of the A. That should eliminate sandbagging. As far as the invert I say have it be between no invert to a full invert.
I know many people like simple formats that are easy to follow. But I think this day in age I would prefer a more complex format that isn't so easy for drivers to figure out before or during the race where there optimal finish would be. Again this is just my opinion and it doesn't make either of us wrong.
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October 18, 2018 at
08:59:39 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on October 17 2018 at 01:55:15 PM
I actually like the Outlaw's race format. I know some people can't stand it due to the whole qualifying process and how "boring" it can be, but to me and my opinion the races have been more competitive. Heat races matter because a position in a race can be worth 3-4spots in the A-main. The old format with inverting heat races you had complaints that guys were "sandbagging" qualifying to get a front row spot in the heat races, to get into the dash, and then people complained about front row winners or the winner coming from the top 4 spots. People were winning but the gripe was, well he didn't pass a single car and qualified 16th and on and on.
As far as a fan's perspective since I do not own a track or car, therefore I do not tell people how to run their business. I hope safety does get improved from the car and track perspective but I do not have any suggestions on how. A simple request from a parent's perspecitve would be have some things to do before/during the event for the kids to get them involved. Whether it is allowing them to sit in a car, touch some parts, games, whatever to reach them and keep them interested. My little 3 year old loves going to the track and watching the races. However inticing other parents that are the "casual fan" to bring their kids might be an area to where they could improve.
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This is spot on. Those who say there isn't any passing must not be watching WoO races in 2018. Like stated above... every postion in a heat is worth 3-5 starting sports in the feature depending how many heats there are. And getting in the dash is so crucial drivers are trying their damn hardest to finish top-2 in their heats.
So you dont like the fact there isnt an invert prior to heat races? I understand fans think it would be more excited watching the fast guys start in the back, and I agree with that, but why should you reward slow qualifiers with good starting spots in the heat? If the format were to change back to inverted heats there would have to be some kind of incentive to get your qualifying time back for the feature... putting more of an emphasis on the dreaded, "boring" qualifying process.
I think the current format is great. Especially when the field is split into two flights of qualifying when the car count exceeds 32 cars. Its more than fair. The only problem with the WoO right now is that damn #15 team is so much better than the competition. I believe someone posted under another thread that Sweet would need to win these last 6 races and Donny would have to finish 22nd or worse in each to blow the Championship. SIX! Six races to go and this championship is all but locked up already.
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October 18, 2018 at
09:02:44 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 17 2018 at 09:00:37 PM
Not bashing your opinion, but I agree with Nick14. I have been to quite a few WoO races since the format change and I have yet to be disappointed in the night of racing as a whole.
That said, I have always liked this idea: (as I have stated here before)
1. Scrap time trials
2. Pill draw for heat #1
3. Run heats
4. Run heats again with a complete invert of starting spots
5. Give points for all finishing spots and line up the mains
6. Draw for invert for dash (as done now) Add finishing points of the dash to finishing points of the heats for A lineup---not necessarily how you finish the dash
???? Thoughts????? More racing---more action
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I like the current format but this good too. Takes me back to my kartings days... same format all the local tracks would run.
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October 18, 2018 at
09:07:44 AM
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09/14/2010
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7614
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 17 2018 at 09:00:37 PM
Not bashing your opinion, but I agree with Nick14. I have been to quite a few WoO races since the format change and I have yet to be disappointed in the night of racing as a whole.
That said, I have always liked this idea: (as I have stated here before)
1. Scrap time trials
2. Pill draw for heat #1
3. Run heats
4. Run heats again with a complete invert of starting spots
5. Give points for all finishing spots and line up the mains
6. Draw for invert for dash (as done now) Add finishing points of the dash to finishing points of the heats for A lineup---not necessarily how you finish the dash
???? Thoughts????? More racing---more action
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I like 1 thru 4, not sure about dash
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October 18, 2018 at
09:09:36 AM
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7614
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on October 17 2018 at 04:06:07 PM
I'm going to respectfully disagree with that statement. If what you are saying is true then tires in all forms of motorsports would have never gotten any wider than they were in the 50s or even earlier. Yet all through the 60s and 70s as technology improved the tires got wider, and the cars went quicker.
From a dynamic standpoint as a car enters a turn at speed a narrower tire would have less surface area in contact with the track, and as the weight of the car shifts to the outside there would be less overall resistive force available from the tire's contact patch to prevent the loss of traction.
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Totally agree.
Thats why tires keep getting wider in every form of racing
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October 18, 2018 at
11:39:30 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on October 18 2018 at 09:09:36 AM
Totally agree.
Thats why tires keep getting wider in every form of racing
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If this were the case, wouldnt drag cars have small tires in the rear? last time i saw one they seemed pretty wide
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October 18, 2018 at
01:54:18 PM
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183
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on October 17 2018 at 09:00:37 PM
Not bashing your opinion, but I agree with Nick14. I have been to quite a few WoO races since the format change and I have yet to be disappointed in the night of racing as a whole.
That said, I have always liked this idea: (as I have stated here before)
1. Scrap time trials
2. Pill draw for heat #1
3. Run heats
4. Run heats again with a complete invert of starting spots
5. Give points for all finishing spots and line up the mains
6. Draw for invert for dash (as done now) Add finishing points of the dash to finishing points of the heats for A lineup---not necessarily how you finish the dash
???? Thoughts????? More racing---more action
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Port Royal used that 2heat format 3 or 4 times this year if I’m not mistaken. I think it is a fair way for all drivers and basically takes luck of the draw out of the equation.
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October 18, 2018 at
03:11:29 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on October 18 2018 at 09:07:44 AM
I like 1 thru 4, not sure about dash
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Scrap the Dash, too. A blind draw sucks and it really has little value. Invert either the front two, three or four rows of the A Main and throw the flag! Along with all the other points, it becomes a night of racing in all aspects.
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October 18, 2018 at
05:09:20 PM
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This message was edited on
October 18, 2018 at
05:10:12 PM by Fuelstick
Reply to:
Posted By: Jake B. on October 17 2018 at 04:06:07 PM
I'm going to respectfully disagree with that statement. If what you are saying is true then tires in all forms of motorsports would have never gotten any wider than they were in the 50s or even earlier. Yet all through the 60s and 70s as technology improved the tires got wider, and the cars went quicker.
From a dynamic standpoint as a car enters a turn at speed a narrower tire would have less surface area in contact with the track, and as the weight of the car shifts to the outside there would be less overall resistive force available from the tire's contact patch to prevent the loss of traction.
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Leave them the width they are now & just stiffen up the right rear tire side walls. Stiffer side wall will take away side bite
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October 18, 2018 at
06:40:40 PM
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Time trials suck. No other way to put it. If you havr to run them limit to one lap or run timed groups. Nothing more boring or time consuming than time yrials. The dash does not seem to produce much change and can take cars out as what happened in port royal. Lost two feature cars for what maybe one starting spits. Heats have been boring at best at many yracks this year. Generally won from the pole. Waste of laps. I am all for more insentive to pass cars and not just run the heat and wait for the feature.
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October 18, 2018 at
11:13:26 PM
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Posted By: MandGRacing96 on October 18 2018 at 11:39:30 AM
If this were the case, wouldnt drag cars have small tires in the rear? last time i saw one they seemed pretty wide
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Thats my point. Wide tires have more traction. You seem to misunderstand what I was saying
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October 18, 2018 at
11:21:31 PM
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Posted By: Curious12 on October 18 2018 at 06:40:40 PM
Time trials suck. No other way to put it. If you havr to run them limit to one lap or run timed groups. Nothing more boring or time consuming than time yrials. The dash does not seem to produce much change and can take cars out as what happened in port royal. Lost two feature cars for what maybe one starting spits. Heats have been boring at best at many yracks this year. Generally won from the pole. Waste of laps. I am all for more insentive to pass cars and not just run the heat and wait for the feature.
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The only thing I like about Time Trials is that you can familiarize yourself with the cars if you don't already know them.
USAC is even worse, fast qualifiers who make it thru the B start ahead (in the A) of slower qualifiers who qualify thru their heats. Why even run heats, especially in a small field where almost everyone makes the A?
But the racing is better than WoO cause its wingless..... 
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October 19, 2018 at
07:13:02 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on October 18 2018 at 11:13:26 PM
Thats my point. Wide tires have more traction. You seem to misunderstand what I was saying
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Sorry that was more a question to the original post. Agree with ya
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October 19, 2018 at
12:12:48 PM
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Not saying it would be a good idea but what about some sort of playoffs?
When was the last time the championship battle was close?
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October 19, 2018 at
01:28:11 PM
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Posted By: m_cox22 on October 19 2018 at 12:12:48 PM
Not saying it would be a good idea but what about some sort of playoffs?
When was the last time the championship battle was close?
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The year Schatz didnt win? Not sure. IMO Shouldnt penalize a team because they have the best driver, mechanic and are the most consistent. Add to the fact he usually wins the most races. A playoff just seems to Nascar(ish)....and they dont seem to be doing too hot right now
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October 19, 2018 at
02:14:33 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MandGRacing96 on October 19 2018 at 01:28:11 PM
The year Schatz didnt win? Not sure. IMO Shouldnt penalize a team because they have the best driver, mechanic and are the most consistent. Add to the fact he usually wins the most races. A playoff just seems to Nascar(ish)....and they dont seem to be doing too hot right now
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My only argument is, what other sport gives a championship to the team with the best record? I honestly think the playoffs have been good for Nascar and has provided some excitement that wouldn't of been there without it. The rules, length of races, price of tickets have all been more detrimental.
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October 19, 2018 at
03:52:27 PM
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Never thought about sprint car playoffs, but could work. Maybe like... take the top 8 in points going into the 4-Crowns. Then add the points from the 4-crown through Williams Grove, then top 4 race for the championship in October plus the World Finals. With so much unpredictability, maybe throw out your worst night.
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