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Topic: Grove/Friday nights in Central PA Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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willf270
MyWebsite
April 22, 2018 at 08:00:24 AM
Joined: 03/26/2014
Posts: 130
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Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on April 21 2018 at 01:36:07 PM

First problem is the number of 410 races we have on the schedule in central PA, way too many. The second problem is the size of the tracks. Aside from Knoxville, 1/2 miles are obsolete. Engine costs have put spint car racing out of reach for many and the bigger tracks drastically increase those costs. Then throw in the fact that the cars are so locked down now that it's hard to pass anyone on a big track until it slicks off. The simplest and best way to improve the racing and combat the costs is smaller tracks. Less cost and closer, better racing. Just look one state over. OH 410 tracks are drawing 30+ cars for regular shows and they pay far less than we do in central PA. They are all bullrings. Attica had 44 410's last week and 31 SLM's. Cut down the straights at the Grove and widen/ add more banking in the corners. Then we'll have a great Friday night track. Big tracks were great back when the cars weighed twice as much and had half as much HP but times have changed. Time to stop living in the past and update our tracks to smaller configurations. JMO 



You have made a great point, problem is the guys want the big track,especially Saturday. Grove facilities, mainly track are shot. Lincoln was the best track by far, but cheap managment has ruined that. Port Royal has become the place to race. Baps has sunk tons of money into the place, gets no support on Sundays at all. Grove should be specials only, Baps 410's Friday. Port and Lincoln Sat.

Many guys are afraid of Lincoln because you have to know how to drive and deal with lapped traffic, but at Port its pedal down. Stop and steer Ott comes to mind. But the better driver will come from Lincoln.



PorschePeteTx
April 22, 2018 at 11:09:17 AM
Joined: 07/22/2008
Posts: 807
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Posted By: newbeevur on April 21 2018 at 10:36:47 PM

21 410s. 26 360s. 15 305s at Knoxville tonight. Gonna prolly be worse with Mansfield next weekend



T-Mac is probably the only one coming to Mansfield.  Wayne Johnson will be in ASCS... so maybe 20 410's next week.

 

 



cubicdollars
April 22, 2018 at 11:30:38 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4443
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SOD tire rule and Doty wing angle rule and they would all be running together.

Susky could easily run Friday nights car count wise.

I think they are worried about consistent fans paying out a 410 purse.

Grandstands at the Grove look empty a lot of regular shows and they are the only ones running.

Grove only makes money on big shows.

Full field of cars would be a good place to start though plus would make more money off the back gate.

SOD tire rule and Doty wing angle rule and they would all be running together, and then still could have some other different class each night.


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com



Brick461
April 22, 2018 at 11:52:10 AM
Joined: 12/13/2016
Posts: 76
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Posted By: microsprint6 on April 21 2018 at 01:45:25 PM

Baps raced in similar weather conditions and had 20 410’s and 10 358’s. Problem is if these tracks cancel everyone gets mad and if they race, no one shows up.



Bingo!!!!!  They cancel and people are bitching and moaning all over social media; they race and people are bitching and moaning all over social media.  It's either "we went to all this trouble and then only to get cancelled", or "this is ridiculous racing in this type of weather".  Damned if you do; damned if don't.


Attempting to be a voice of reason in a world full of
irrationality. 

Brick461
April 22, 2018 at 12:01:56 PM
Joined: 12/13/2016
Posts: 76
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This message was edited on April 22, 2018 at 12:05:52 PM by Brick461
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Posted By: EZ2BME on April 21 2018 at 08:20:00 PM

Williams Grove NEEDS to shorten their race track to 3/8th ASAP, THE HALF MILES UNFORTUNETLY ARE TOO HARD ON ENGINES 



"Too hard on engines" says who??  I think often times the size of a track is used as a crutch or an excuse for a lack of horsepower, driving experience, or whatever.  I agree it may be tougher on engines, but any track is hard on an engine, so to say one track is TOO hard on an engine just doesn't hold water.  I think the real issue is, as others have already pointed out in this thread, that tracks like Port Royal and The Grove really yanks someone's pants down around their ankle and lets their bare asses show when they are down on horsepower compared to some of the others.  This is just a part of racing.  The real bottom line is it's all about money.  You didn't hear many people bitching about tracks being too big in the days of owners like Hamilton, Weikert, Beam, Dyer, etc.  There just aren't near the number of big money owners out there these days.  Why is that?  Hell, I don't know.  Money is just tighter these days?  I don't know, but pointing fingers at 1/2 mile tracks is futile.  Just my opinion.....


Attempting to be a voice of reason in a world full of
irrationality. 

Dlucks83
April 22, 2018 at 05:27:37 PM
Joined: 07/25/2017
Posts: 196
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A couple teams said they weren’t going to deal with the cold. Track can be rough on motors in good weather and the cold makes it that much worse. Personally, I’m fed up with the lack of track prep. There doesn’t seem to be anything beyond run it in with trucks and hope it works.




beer goggles
April 23, 2018 at 09:04:11 AM
Joined: 03/25/2013
Posts: 15
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I attended the races at Port Royal on Saturday night. First of all. I have to say that the facility is really nice with the grandstands, new retaining walls and especially the LIGHTS!  All of this is tremendous. Well done !  My experience went downhill, as the dust began to roll in hot laps. The surface was run in so hard. It might as well be paved. Any moisture is killed on site. The program drags with the time taken to get cars onto the track.  It was chilly, some would say frickn cold! They then spritzed the top of the track and then spent time pounding the moisture out of the dirt. I just don't get why tracks figure that this is necessary?    Heat races are boring. If they don't call Zearfoss and Hodnutt for jumping on the outside , why have officials in the corners? That is the only Passing!  We all saw some good feature races. But the dust blowing down the front stretch gets old.  And the track man, I think his name is Steve, is going to kill himself or worse someone else!   The way this man drives his side by side four wheeler is a disaster waiting to happen!



chekered
April 23, 2018 at 09:14:47 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 96
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Posted By: wolfgang29 on April 21 2018 at 09:18:52 AM

I would love to see another track in Central Pennsylvania race 410’s on a Friday night. I would be very curious to see how competition would affect things at Williams Grove. Susky? Sorry, BAPS LOL 



because there is an over abundance of 410 sprints now??...



wolfgang29
April 23, 2018 at 10:26:58 AM
Joined: 05/13/2012
Posts: 60
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So, when I suggested another track run on Friday,it wasn’t with the thought of splitting the 410 field like on a Saturday. I really think teams would abandon Williams Grove if there was a better option for racing 




chekered
April 23, 2018 at 02:45:18 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 96
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Posted By: wolfgang29 on April 23 2018 at 10:26:58 AM

So, when I suggested another track run on Friday,it wasn’t with the thought of splitting the 410 field like on a Saturday. I really think teams would abandon Williams Grove if there was a better option for racing 



and you will still have "those" teams that run just one night a week because thats all the can afford.

Car counts are lacking and will continue to lack especially at regular shows. 

Until costs are controlled, nothing is going to change. How some of these guys do it is beyond me. It's gotta like just like cocaine



reklaw944
April 23, 2018 at 03:22:54 PM
Joined: 11/02/2015
Posts: 60
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Posted By: wolfgang29 on April 23 2018 at 10:26:58 AM

So, when I suggested another track run on Friday,it wasn’t with the thought of splitting the 410 field like on a Saturday. I really think teams would abandon Williams Grove if there was a better option for racing 



I'm not sure why so many people think it would be a good thing for Williams Grove to fail. I get that the current management is not firendly to fans or competitors and I can't wait for the day that Pinky sells the track and lets someone run it who actually wants to succeed. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not WIlliams Grove is a huge part of what put Central PA on the national radar for sprint cars, and losing it would not be a good thing for our racing. 



longtimemitchfan
April 23, 2018 at 03:47:46 PM
Joined: 06/27/2012
Posts: 749
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I dont know what the promoters at the Grove are diong that is so bad the problem seems to be with the track ,the only car that seems to be able to pass is the 69k. They are paying good money ,a great point fund and lots of special shows yet guys like Ryan Taylor win the opener and havent been back since.

This week Mcintyer raced Saturday and Sunday and no Friday,Chad Trout had a good run last week this week a no show.

Like other people have said on here the biggest problem is to many divisions.




reklaw944
April 23, 2018 at 03:53:53 PM
Joined: 11/02/2015
Posts: 60
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Posted By: longtimemitchfan on April 23 2018 at 03:47:46 PM

I dont know what the promoters at the Grove are diong that is so bad the problem seems to be with the track ,the only car that seems to be able to pass is the 69k. They are paying good money ,a great point fund and lots of special shows yet guys like Ryan Taylor win the opener and havent been back since.

This week Mcintyer raced Saturday and Sunday and no Friday,Chad Trout had a good run last week this week a no show.

Like other people have said on here the biggest problem is to many divisions.



I should have clarified that I think Justin wants the track to be successful, while the current owner seems to view it and everything involved with it as a nuisance. I have personally witnessed her almost run over her paying customers with her golf cart while complaining that "you people think you can just walk wherever you want." Between the specials with touring series and the Yellow Breeches series there are very few shows at the Grove that pay less than $500 to start. I'm not sure why other than not wanting to risk losing an engine to the cold temps that more teams aren't supporting them. 



fiXXXer
April 23, 2018 at 05:57:52 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Posted By: beer goggles on April 23 2018 at 09:04:11 AM

I attended the races at Port Royal on Saturday night. First of all. I have to say that the facility is really nice with the grandstands, new retaining walls and especially the LIGHTS!  All of this is tremendous. Well done !  My experience went downhill, as the dust began to roll in hot laps. The surface was run in so hard. It might as well be paved. Any moisture is killed on site. The program drags with the time taken to get cars onto the track.  It was chilly, some would say frickn cold! They then spritzed the top of the track and then spent time pounding the moisture out of the dirt. I just don't get why tracks figure that this is necessary?    Heat races are boring. If they don't call Zearfoss and Hodnutt for jumping on the outside , why have officials in the corners? That is the only Passing!  We all saw some good feature races. But the dust blowing down the front stretch gets old.  And the track man, I think his name is Steve, is going to kill himself or worse someone else!   The way this man drives his side by side four wheeler is a disaster waiting to happen!



Be careful. I have brought up all of those same points just to be beaten down by the Port Royal homers. Everything you said is dead on the money. I LOVE Port Royal and no matter what happens, I always will. That is my home track and I've spent far more time there than I have any other track. Many of my fondest childhood memories are attached to that place. I literally cried the day the old grandstands and cement bleachers came down. That said, they aren't perfect and there's a lot of things they could do much better. Track prep being one. It's too dry and they pound it down too hard then they spend the whole night beating the cushion in with push trucks. The facility on the other hand, is amazing. Everything they've done with it has been for the better and I commend them for it but the other stuff you said, is what it is. No matter what, I'll always go there but there's nothing wrong with laying customers giving their opinions on things they don't like. 



fiXXXer
April 23, 2018 at 06:02:18 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 2475
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Posted By: reklaw944 on April 23 2018 at 03:53:53 PM

I should have clarified that I think Justin wants the track to be successful, while the current owner seems to view it and everything involved with it as a nuisance. I have personally witnessed her almost run over her paying customers with her golf cart while complaining that "you people think you can just walk wherever you want." Between the specials with touring series and the Yellow Breeches series there are very few shows at the Grove that pay less than $500 to start. I'm not sure why other than not wanting to risk losing an engine to the cold temps that more teams aren't supporting them. 



You're correct. Justin does a great job. I'd hate to see how bad things would be without him there. It's a well documented fact that pinky is a miserable bitch. I've seen it myself numerous times over the years. Like another poster said, whether we like Pinky or not, Williams Grove is the main hub of central PA and without it, we'd be in trouble. My hope has always been that she'd eventually sell it to someone who wants to bring it back to it's glory days and has the means to make it happen. For now, it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon. We can always hope though.....




revjimk
April 23, 2018 at 06:34:13 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Posted By: reklaw944 on April 23 2018 at 03:22:54 PM

I'm not sure why so many people think it would be a good thing for Williams Grove to fail. I get that the current management is not firendly to fans or competitors and I can't wait for the day that Pinky sells the track and lets someone run it who actually wants to succeed. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not WIlliams Grove is a huge part of what put Central PA on the national radar for sprint cars, and losing it would not be a good thing for our racing. 



I totally agree that "losing it would not be a good thing for our racing"

Don't know anything about management, but haven't heard anything positive yet....

Calling Tony Stewart????? 





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