Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I think a heat invert draw after qualifying would be effective. Would like to see a driver find a way to sandbag that invert.

Sandbagging?  At Knoxville you often have 6 + cars between 15.1 & 15.2. So you are not talking Sandbagging for 1 or 2 tenths, it would be hundredths of a second! And unless you went out last you don't know who turned a super lap or who timed worse than usual so you would have no idea how much to sandbag.

The format must balance what's fair for the racers and what puts on a good show for the fans. Knoxville's format that originated with the NSL last year makes drivers time hard and race hard in the heats. Plus the inverts give the fans a much better chance of seeing some good racing.

I really like the kings royal format

invert 4 in the heats

heat winners start 1-6

2nd place heat start 7-12

3rd place heat start 13-18

b-main starts staight up and takes 4 that start 19-22

then to reward qualifying the 2 fastest drivers that couldn't  race there way in start 23/24

simple as heck and its effective IMO 

Its worth noting that they used to invert 6 in the heats which really promoted racing your ass off in the heat and for whatever reason its. een changed to 4 on the invert

no dash bullshit with draws and stupidy just straight racing with no luck involved with a dumb dash draw that is pointless 

Yes the format is allways hard to explain to a newbie or nascar fan. I blame my posse boys ass whoopin on that 7yr. old boy that pulled the invert pill lmao!

this is why it has been said for years . if you can't get out there and turn a good lap in time trails you put yourself behind the 8 ball and it turns into a uphill fight all night long. time trails are a pain in the a**. the track changes, what position you go out, are really important. i have and always will say, KISS is the right way, we all understand that is never going to happen. top 12 guys in the A. Pull a pill when they roll you up to the pit gate. there's your starting position. KISS.

No offense, but that's not exactly easy for newbies to understand either.  The ASCS format is just as bad.  Pull a pill for starting position in heat, run heat with passing points, top point guys go to qualifiers, again passing points, then the top 6 or 8 in points pull a pill for their starting position.  a guy that runs 3rd and 3rd (heat and qualifier) can start on the pole where a guy who won both may start clear in the back because he started up front both times.

There is currently no "easy to understand" format in sprint car racing for someone new off the street coming to a race in any sanction that I've ever witnessed.

Sanctioning bodies and announcers need to educate those in the stands during the event with how the lineups are determined (even the hard-core fans don't know sometimes), without "preaching" to those that do know.  Fine line to walk, but it can be done.

I think it was blazer who said it, but I agree that the All Stars have the best format. Pill draw for heat (can lead to occasional stacked heats but that's entertaining for fans) then qualify within your heat and invert 4. The track doesn't change significantly enough for the times to significantly drop for 10-12 cars in a heat. Then the top X (depends on number of cars, often top 5) go to feature and the top 2 cars in heat as well as top 2 qualifiers who transferred through their heat but wasn't in top 2 in heat get a spot in the dashes. Line up inside row in dash one, line up outside in dash 2. Top 4 transfer from a B main that is lined up on time trial times, and the cars who transferred from the heats is same as WoO (3rd place fast qualifer starts 11th, etc).

Overall I think it's the perfect balance of entertainment for the fans cause there is some passing, and also balances the time trial and racing ability of the drivers without weighting too much one way or the other. Also, from a safety standpoint it's good to have cars that aren't too slow starting in the front. Also, it rewards passing in the heat as the WoO does. I also like the kings royal format, but I like dashes because more racing is never somethign I'll complain about!

Agree, with1 exception. Eliminate the dashes. Usually little to no passing. Understand it's more laps, but often very little "racing".

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

You're always trying to balance fairness to racers and entertainment value for fans. Right now I think the balance is a little too heavily weighted towards fairness to racers with the WoO. But I'm not sure how to tweak it.

The facts are most tracks just aren't racy during the heats, so to expect a fast time trialer to come from 4th to 2nd is too much. But to    Give the fastest cars clean air is basically ensuring barring a great restart, you're going to finish where you start.

Here is the problem with everything. No matter what format a sanctioning body, or track decides to run, you will always have someone whining and crying on some message board. You are always going to have races where the pole sitter leads every lap no matter where they qualified and someone is always going to complain. Seems that the outlaws and all stars and local tracks are always tweeking the race format but the same complaints keep coming. Winner started on the pole and lead all the laps, Pole sitter qualified 15th but somehow started on the pole, winner came from the first 2 rows, winner came from the first 3 rows, winner was Schatz, winner wouldn't have won if it wasn't for this caution or that red flag, the track was heavy, my favorite driver didnt win so I didnt like the race, my least favorite driver did win so it was a bad race, there were only 2 passes for the lead, 3 passes for the lead, the winner came from the top 10...... on and on. It doesn't matter what format you go to, someone will complain.

Personally I like this format, as the drivers can improve starting position through the heats and it seems the racing is closer.

There will never be a truly perfect format that will please everyone and it's understandable because of all the reasons Nick said above.

I think what you are saying is very true. The problem was  "The spoiled Don Don "  Didn't win that championship and also complained how Joey had so many points for quick times.  God forbid the Ouflaws were to lose The Donald because he can't win all the championships . He complained then and still complains now. He refused to take a picture with a Gravel and Rahmer Friday at the Grove. Traditionalily photos are always taken of the Top 3 finishers he didn't Friday and has done that several times in the past when he hasn't Won.  Sorry to go off subject a bit 

Their are times that drivers starting in the forth position or 5 th position an make it first or second and end up in the dash. 

Their are times when a driver is not in the Dash and starts further back and do win a race. That has happened this year. 

as far as the local guys and thinking it's unfair for them with the outlaws . I disagree with that. If you are a local and you race there week after week wouldn't you think they would have the upper hand( local guy) . They are the ones who should have the car dialed in. Not the guy who ran a race the night before in another state and has hot  Laos to figure out its car. If this were true The Posse wouldnt of gotten a can of Woooop  Azzzz this past 3 races 

Until the next possee wins from the front row, then it will be chest thumping time