Ya ya i know what you will all say,, "win a championship" blah blah blah...... Personally the WoO has fallen off the last 5 years or so... Great shows in Cali, Ohio, and Pa,, and of course Knoxville but the championship is decided in September... Sorry but Donny is not Steve or Sammy and doesn't put butts in the seats... Racing with the WoO makes you restricted anyway... Can't race anywhere else... Stupid Rule.....

Now the All Stars/Renegades debate.... Why in God's name would you continue to race with the all stars when you are not getting paid? Its already tough enough for most of these teams as it is,, they cannot afford that....

I just don't see the point in all these series and point funds... Posse fans will have my back... there is not PA racing series and they do just fine.. Besides you go to a big show in Ohio or PA you are going to see all the guys and good cars you paid to see.... these regional series just water down from your local track every saturday night... Keep Ohio Speedweek and thats about it.... I mean how great would it be to have 50+ sprints at attica on friday, fremont saturday, and then somewhere sunday in ohio.... would be very comparable to lincoln, williams grove, and port royal...

Just my personal opinion though... any other thoughts???

Besides whatever ever happened to a true "outlaw"

The all stars and renegade series pay 1,000 for 10th.  Compare that to the 250 to 300 that Attica and Fremont pay.  The increased number of good paying shows in and around Ohio next year will do nothing but help the drivers and owners.  I hope that The OVSCA will increase their purse to the all star structure next year also.  Might hurt the track owners in the short run but in the long run will defintely help sprint car racing in the Ohio area.

And how do you figure you'll get 50 cars for a weekly show at Attica/Fremont? It's not like the All Stars keep 25 cars from running every weekend. Series racing also provides an increased payout that local track drivers can dip their fingers into now and then. 

 Plus, point fund money at year-end..........if paid.

For the same reason you post on a message board. They want to. 

Travelling series bring outside cars to the track and I think that makes it more interesting, even in hotbeds like PA, OH, CA, Knoxville. Although the purses are better, I have to wonder if they even come close to offset the travelling expenses + full-time crew, lodging, etc. Travelling isn't cheap these days and neither is fielding a topnotch 410 sprint team. The competition is tougher than ever anywhere around the country and you need the best of everything to win at most places. That can be considered a good thing or bad thing depending which way you look at it.

A

for the outlaws, you lose out on 500 per race which this year is around 45k plus free pit passes, probably another 200 per race. Also, you lose out on a point fund which pays out around 550k for 13 drivers. If you are going to do 80%, you may as well do it all.

I raced in a series this year and had a blast chasing points...

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

My point is the "tow money" who does that really help, TSR? Kasey Kahne Racing? I don't think it really effects your bottom line at the end of the year? if anything reduce your everyday expenses... We all know the all stars point fund doesn't even get paid so who are the all-stars helping and if they are at all, why do they only have one driver right now?

The outlaws haven't adjusted or increaded their point fund or nightly purse structure in what, 25 years??? The cost of sprint car racing has gone sky high but the purses haven't changed at all,,,, and i just paid $40 to watch an outlaw show at Fremont? you tell me who is coming out on top... All i am saying,, if i were an owner id field a great car and run it regionally, clean house regionally, and hit the big shows i wanna hit....

If the outlaws and allstars and Lucas oil ascs sprints are so great,, tell me why guys like rico abreu, christopher bell, kevin swindell, brian brown, jason johnson, the dude, t-mac, and ian madsen aren't running any of these series???

Because the money isn't there,,, and no one wants to spend $700,000 to field a team and not even get half of it back... Not all the owners are given over a million to run their sprint car teams like TSR, Kahne, and maybe what Kerry Madsen see's now...

My prediction,,, there will not be a World of Outlaws in 10 years.. just not viable and WRG is just too greedy... no Steve and Sammy,,,, no chance...

Was i was a kid i was geeked to see the 11 and 1 out there... now what do we have.. the 15 and ???? the two other top drivers,, Abreu and Brown don't even tour

Cars have sponsors to help pay the bills. That's why car owners/drivers chase the big companies. Some companies are regional and only want to race where they do business so why sponsor someone running all around the country when you only want exposure in a certain area?  And God bless Bobby Allen for doing the whole series with two cars. Be honest - How many of us thought that he could pull that off all year?  I think we witnessed a modern day miracle. He told me at Terre Haute he wants to do it two more years and then turn it over to the boys. Doing what he's doing at 70 is absolutely amazing to me and if I had a million dollars to spend on anything I wanted I'd be really tempted to back his cars for those two years. His little team exemplifies what America used to stand for and that is start with little, bust your butt and do your best with what you have and hope there's a pay-off down the road. Go 1a and 1s

It sounds as though you really don't have a complete grasp on what it is to race with the WoO or All Stars.

It also sounds as though you are not coming to the track because your favorite drivers are retiring.  Are you also upset because the guys you want to see race don't do it here in Ohio very often?  Where are these 50+ cars for Attica, Fremont and the mystery Sunday track coming from?  How are the overwhelming majority of the cars going to afford to pay for everything on the $300-400 to start, less for the C&B mains?  Who wants to put The Dude and T-Mac in cars for an Outlaw tour?

If you are on the Outlaw tour, your tow money for showing up is more than last place at Attica, Fremont and the mystery Sunday track.  FYI, there is a reason nobody races on Sunday.

I also did not think Bobby could keep both of them out there this long, thank god for tow money.

DA

Yeah it's amazing but lets face the facts. Logan was becoming one of the top 410 drivers in PA when he left. I know he had fast times and I think the 1 lap record at Port Royal. Now, after a gruelling year on tour, he's a 21st place car back home. I just can't see where it was worth it.  I've watched him coming up through the ranks and I know he has as much talent as anybody(way more than Gravel who I also watched with the URC), but you need a good ride with lots of $$$ to make it with the WOO. Jacob was never even ready for a 410, let alone the WOO.

A

The experience gained for those 2 are phenominal though.

Under that logic, Hodnett and Lance are 14th and 16th place cars. When you race against top competition, you can only get better.

Logan, Jacob, and Grampa are champions for proving that it can still be done Grampa's way.

An amazing story in this 'have the bucks or stay home world' that we live in.

If anyone saw Logan charge through the b-main at the National Open like I did, they wouldnt question his talent

I am from PA, and if you sit down and ask just about any driver if they had the opportunity to go run on the Outlaws, I am willing to bet the vast majority would say yes.  It's the lure of being a full time professional racer thats the draw.  And anybody that says they race because its good money, is completely dillusional.  Racing always has and always will be spending more than your making. 

When you look what the starting purse is to run 90 outlaw shows, as compared to starting 90 local shows anywhere in the country shows that you can get more money making those 90 outlaw shows, assuming you do make them.  The biggest arguement is logistics though.  If you can run 90 shows within 100 miles of your home, you spend that much less over running 90 shows all over the country.  However, if you have the ability to show to an investor that you can put their brand on a national stage, then that would aid your budget immensley, over that you could get from a regional company. 

If you look at those like Brian Brown who has FVP and Casey's which are both Midwestern Companies, its better marketing for him to run in that area rather than drive to California for the Outlaw swing because his sponsors get better branding from where he currently runs.   I think the same speaks for Ian Madsen and McCarl. 

Rico Abreu, Christopher Bell, I believe run alot of wingless stuff and USAC midget stuff for Keith Kunz as well.  Sometimes drivers follow the money moreso than just the overall tour, and saying you won 20 races all over speaks louder than being a series Champion.  It's how Larson got noticed.

I truly think you are trying to compare apples to apples and honestly you can't do that, because there are so many factors to compare on many sides. 

There's top competition (outlaw level) nearly anywhere these days. That's why you have the WOO getting beat everywhere from CA, midwest, OH and PA and a local/regional racer challenging the best WOO driver for the win in the Nationals. I'm not talking about 1 race. Look at Logan's stats the last few months, less than stellar. I know it's a learning experience to go ot on tour and race at new tracks and I commend them for giving it a go. However, IDK how beneficial it is when you have a fraction of the funding as your compettion. It didn't seem to do much for Lucas' career. 

A