Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Spec engines in the future for ASCS?  Wouldn’t doubt it the ways things are going in other racing series across the country. Someone already mentioned the RUSH sprint series and the Racesaver sprint series spec engines.  IMCA Modifieds in the Midwest are using the sealed 602 GM spec engine, 410 HP claimed.  $5900 cost or $7900 for a fully ready motor with radiator, flywheel, starter, etc.  Supposed to last an entire year without refreshening and injured engines would be a thing of the past. The sealed GM CT350 is used in other street and hobby stock classes around the country.  In a Flat Out mag article two or three months back, the writer claimed that several ASCS owners would seriously consider the ASCS 360 national series switch to a spec engine to dramatically cut costs and at the same time keep teams alive and possibly allow more owners/drivers to start a team, especially when you can cut engine costs by 60 to 70%.  60%, that’s nothing to sneeze at.  This also would leave the race results more in the hands of the drivers as engines would be identical.

In a lengthy Illmor Motorsports article at Illmor’s website they talked about the dramatic savings for ARCA teams using the Illmor sealed spec engine, the LSX GM crate engine, and costs are definitely "dramatic". Actually unbelievable.  Illmor stated that an ARCA stock car team can easily get thru the season on two Illmor engines with one being freshened one time---that’s it, that’s their season.  Total cost of $80,000, and to put that in perspective, most ARCA teams spend that much on just their two big-track/high speed races, Daytona and Charlotte, and the teams own the engines, they’re not leased.  That’s an incredible cost reduction for teams.   Of course if a driver is leading a race and the engine is overheating big time or oil pressure dropping rapidly and only a lap or two left, the driver wanting to win the race will let the engine expire rather than pull into the pits.  Those situations would add another engine cost.  

By the way, the NASCAR K and N series, both east and west, uses a GM LS engine built by guess who, Robert Yates Racing.  Yes, Yates doesn’t just build Ford engines.

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The 602 isnt the way to go for the future of racing. Its old technology and the bodied car guys have been cheating that engine for years with ease. The LS program is a more modern apporach that would drastically save on engine costs IF done right. But remember when the ASCS head came out? It was supposed to be the next step to save sprint cars and that failed about as bad as Danica's NASCAR career. LS engines can be built for less money, handle more power, and are far more reliable than the sbc. Parts and engine are all over the place in junkyards dirt cheap for the lower end classes and aftermarket parts are just as plentiful as the racing parts we use for the small block to make bigger power. At some point these sanctioning bodies need to get something rolling with these engines. People just dont like change it seems. 

Selinsgrove has one of, if not the highest weekly 360 purses in the country, even offers bonuses for 358's to show up.....12 cars this past Saturday. Something must be done about the state of 360 racing.

A

Restrict tires and wings and remove engine rules  Costs will plummet and racing will be better. 

A harder tire would definitely help but the tire manufacturer is the one that controls that. And they sell far more soft tires than they do hard ones. Therefore they dont want to mandate a hard tire since they wont make as much. 

tires and wings is a good start.

maybe a spec head that is affordable and your not allowed to modify and gets properly teched.   

602's are great for b mods and hobbys but to many are being open and re seal and never teched.

LS would be an option but guys would figure out how to cheat and re seal them also.

At Park Jefferson, we race all of the various engines.  There is no magic bullet.  The IMCA Modifieds run either an open motor with claim rules, or a Chevy 604.  The IMCA Sport Modifieds and Hobby Stocks both run the Chevy sealed 602.  The 604 is a much better choice for the sprint cars.  We also are big backers of the RACESaver Sprint Car engine rules as they are certified, and if cheating is found, both the engine builder and car owner get hit pretty hard. 

The ASCS rules are now basically like 410's except they last longer due to the lower stress on the rotating parts.  That said, the horsepower numbers are immense.

Regardless of what the engine rules are, the key is having tech with the ability to identify cheating engines.

That's already being done with great success for the last 3 years in Texas. 12 winners in 13 races so far this year! Not truly a open motor rule but they will let most anything thing under 363 CI run. You can read up on them here

www.sprintcarbandits.com

Pardon me, and I truly mean that, but "spec engines" have been going to 'save' sprint car racing for at least the 35 years that I witnessed. And, sprint car racing has survived, relatively well, without them

Say you are an ASCS owner,  You own 3 ASCS ebgines.  ASCS goes to a spec engine.  What dows a guy do with 3 costly engines that just lost alot of value.  Many owners would say screw it and retire.  Say sprint cars across the country go to a narower tire. What do you do with $5,000 worth of rims?  Rim manuf. could not supply that many rims.  The cost of sprint car and all racing is out of control for sure.  If no one had titanium in chassis or engine it would save $3,000 or more.  The cars would run fine with out it.  With present engines they could reduce size of inj stacks, lower compression of engines and ever not allow over 1.6 rocker arms.  The engines would be easy to check and would last longer.  Things might change when ASCS, WOO and ALLStars only get 15 cars at shows and the same at Penn, and Knoxville.  It might be to late by then.

Agree, not sure how most drivers would feel about it though. Another seldom talked about solution regarding the costs of racing, and one of the simplest, is smaller tracks. 

A

Check out www.sprintsondirt.com.  Sprints On Dirt spec tires cost less than others, NO engine rules.  It is working well in keeping costs down.  Racing is second to none.

I posted this in another thread but I'll hit the highlights here.  It is a genuine concern of having high dollar obselete parts.  Would a three year window work?  For example, in three years only these engines will be allowed but in the mean time you can run either engine, obviously handicapping the car with the more powerful engine.  In three years do you think it would be enough time to liquidate those parts?  I agree with you about titanium.  What if they outlawed all exotic metals other than the engine and maybe brake parts if they prove to be tougher?