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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: Tethers Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Limowreck
August 17, 2017 at 11:13:57 AM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
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How effective are the tethers used on sprint cars and how expensive are they?  

The reason I am asking is there was an incident at Skagit last month that has been on my mind quite a bit.  During the B main at their Summer Nationals, a wheel cleared the turn 3/4 catch fence and landed fairly close to where my family and I were sitting.  Had it not been busy, that wheel could have easily hit and killed someone.  Would a manditory tether rule have prevented this?  Thanks.




paydirt28
August 17, 2017 at 12:00:32 PM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
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Posted By: Limowreck on August 17 2017 at 11:13:57 AM

How effective are the tethers used on sprint cars and how expensive are they?  

The reason I am asking is there was an incident at Skagit last month that has been on my mind quite a bit.  During the B main at their Summer Nationals, a wheel cleared the turn 3/4 catch fence and landed fairly close to where my family and I were sitting.  Had it not been busy, that wheel could have easily hit and killed someone.  Would a manditory tether rule have prevented this?  Thanks.



I can't help but wonder how you would tether a wheel given it rotates? Maybe a tether from the frame to the kingpin but that isn't typically where you find part failures and won't stop a wheel from detaching from the hub, or the hub from the axle. I do understand your concern though. Ever since I started bringing my kids to the races, I'm much more concious of where we sit. Fact is there will aways be a risk at any race track. I keep my head on a swivel and am always ready to protect my kids by any means necessary. I've left a couple races due to rocks flying over the catch fence.

 

 



paydirt28
August 17, 2017 at 12:01:59 PM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
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I should clarify that I was thinking about only the front wheels but the same would apply to the rears.




Limowreck
August 17, 2017 at 01:04:25 PM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
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Posted By: paydirt28 on August 17 2017 at 12:00:32 PM

I can't help but wonder how you would tether a wheel given it rotates? Maybe a tether from the frame to the kingpin but that isn't typically where you find part failures and won't stop a wheel from detaching from the hub, or the hub from the axle. I do understand your concern though. Ever since I started bringing my kids to the races, I'm much more concious of where we sit. Fact is there will aways be a risk at any race track. I keep my head on a swivel and am always ready to protect my kids by any means necessary. I've left a couple races due to rocks flying over the catch fence.

 

 



Thanks for replying.  I don't have any knowledge on how tethers work on a sprint car, or if they are just for the axles or whatever, which is kind of why I'm asking.  There are other major racing series that do have specific wheel tethers though (Indycar and F1).  I am aware that racing, be it as a racer or spectator isn't risk free and it won't stop my family from going.



Limowreck
August 17, 2017 at 02:10:50 PM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
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Posted By: on at


Until the incident I mentioned, I always thought the fencing a that part of the track was more than adequate.  Steel guard rail with fencing 20 feet high or so from the surface with an overhang seemed pretty reasonable to me.



RacerX20
MyWebsite
August 17, 2017 at 02:36:08 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 95
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This message was edited on August 17, 2017 at 02:42:57 PM by RacerX20

Did you see how it got that high?  Was it kicked up by another car or get flung over as the car flipped.  The front axle tethers run spindle to spindle, so if the spindle breaks off the axle, that and the wheel are retained.  Same with the tethers that run from the axle back to the raduis rod bolts in the frame.  If the axle breaks in half, those tethers retain that.  If the actual wheel itself breaks off the spindle, then there isnt much that can be done except hope the fence catches it.




Nickules
August 17, 2017 at 03:00:41 PM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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RacerX20 explains how the tethers are attached/work.  All in all front axle tethers aren't terribly expensive.  Maybe $200-250 depending on brand.  Butlerbuilts are probably around $200-225. 



paydirt28
August 17, 2017 at 03:40:18 PM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
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Posted By: Limowreck on August 17 2017 at 01:04:25 PM

Thanks for replying.  I don't have any knowledge on how tethers work on a sprint car, or if they are just for the axles or whatever, which is kind of why I'm asking.  There are other major racing series that do have specific wheel tethers though (Indycar and F1).  I am aware that racing, be it as a racer or spectator isn't risk free and it won't stop my family from going.



I would be curious to see how the wheel tethers work on the indy and F1 cars. It's been awhile since I've touched a sprint car so I'm not an expert by any stretch. RacerX20 seems to know what he's talking about. I wasn't aware of the spindle to spindle tether. Only the frame to front axle tether. I recall a few years ago that Clint Garner was leading the feature at Huset's, riding right up by the fence when the reight rear wheel broke completely off the hub, the car surprisingly came to a safe stop but the wheel and tire took off at 100mph, launched off the concrete wall, over the catch fence, up in the air about 40 feet or higher, I think it may have even bounced off the roof of the concession stand and then came to a stop in the middle of the path that leads to the exit. Amazingly, and luckily, nobody was walking the path at the time. Scary.



MoOpenwheel
August 17, 2017 at 03:46:47 PM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: Nickules on August 17 2017 at 03:00:41 PM

RacerX20 explains how the tethers are attached/work.  All in all front axle tethers aren't terribly expensive.  Maybe $200-250 depending on brand.  Butlerbuilts are probably around $200-225. 



Butlers are $420 for the whole set.  C&Rs are $460.  To set up a spare axle is $310 for Butlers and $240 for C&Rs.  That's from Speedway.    




Nickules
August 17, 2017 at 03:50:26 PM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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Posted By: MoOpenwheel on August 17 2017 at 03:46:47 PM

Butlers are $420 for the whole set.  C&Rs are $460.  To set up a spare axle is $310 for Butlers and $240 for C&Rs.  That's from Speedway.    



Hmmm...Front axle tethers are usually around $200-225 from Butler. Looked on their site and they're right around 200-225. I'll post link when I'm not in mobile. 



Keyboard Jockey
August 17, 2017 at 04:19:08 PM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 430
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Posted By: Nickules on August 17 2017 at 03:50:26 PM

Hmmm...Front axle tethers are usually around $200-225 from Butler. Looked on their site and they're right around 200-225. I'll post link when I'm not in mobile. 



Kingpin to kingpin tethers are $200 from butlerbuilt and $240 from Amick (amick is the compay that supplied the tethers to C&R)

The radius rod tethers from Amick are $110 each.  So the Amick system is $360 to outfit the car and axle. 

The frame to axle clamp tethers from butlerbuilt with the axle clamps are $220 for the pair. So the butlerbuilt system  is $420 to outfit the car and axle. 

 

The butlerbuilt system is a little bit less crappy in design than the amick system because of the axle clamps, instead of bolting to the outside of the radius rod bolts on the front axle pick ups. I say less crappy because the tether systems that are approved right now still place the drivers of the cars in much more danger. I agree that the safety added for fans is much better today than before the tethers. 

 



alum.427
August 17, 2017 at 04:48:15 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1599
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Tethers are a great idea just as catch fences. But, when one of these cars gets into a really bad situation,  anything can happen.  You can build that catch fence forty feet high and if a lose wheel gets hit by a car it is going to go anywhere it wants. Safety measures are great and you can only hope there not put to the test.




dirtracer74
August 17, 2017 at 05:59:48 PM
Joined: 01/29/2007
Posts: 174
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This message was edited on August 17, 2017 at 06:01:34 PM by dirtracer74

The wheel itself is not tethered in indy or in F1. If someone leaves the lug nut loose, and the wheel comes off, it is on its own. They are similar to how the tethers in sprint cars work. If this picture shows up, you can see how the tether is attached in F1. There is no way to tether a spinning wheel, without it being on a bearing of some sort, but then you would not be able to change the wheel out quickly. 

yes, wheels do come off in F1 and in Indy from time to time. You just do not see it often because of the way the spindles,a nd the nuts are built. 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKMIUbPB1Z0

 

Here you can see a sprint car front axel tether. 



Limowreck
August 17, 2017 at 07:11:44 PM
Joined: 08/14/2012
Posts: 137
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Posted By: RacerX20 on August 17 2017 at 02:36:08 PM

Did you see how it got that high?  Was it kicked up by another car or get flung over as the car flipped.  The front axle tethers run spindle to spindle, so if the spindle breaks off the axle, that and the wheel are retained.  Same with the tethers that run from the axle back to the raduis rod bolts in the frame.  If the axle breaks in half, those tethers retain that.  If the actual wheel itself breaks off the spindle, then there isnt much that can be done except hope the fence catches it.



I didn't see how it happened exactly, no.  I believe it was a 1 car incident (Brandon Harkness) at corner entry and it was the RR that came off from what I can remember.  There isn't any video that I can find that shows the wheel coming off to confirm this. 

 

Thank you for all of the helpfull info everyone.  It is much appreciated.  Like everything else it seems that tethers can definitely make things safer to an extent, but risks will always be there obviously.  Still seems worth it to have them on given the (relatively) low cost.



Nickules
August 18, 2017 at 07:15:09 AM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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Remember the huge 360 Nats wreck two weeks ago?  Here's a video of the aftermath and if this starts correctly at around 6:15 mark, you'll see them quickly show and discuss an axle tether on an axle that split.  Good look at it and relevant to the thread.

https://youtu.be/uNbQU7Q_NlQ?t=6m15s




MoOpenwheel
August 18, 2017 at 08:08:03 AM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: Nickules on August 17 2017 at 03:50:26 PM

Hmmm...Front axle tethers are usually around $200-225 from Butler. Looked on their site and they're right around 200-225. I'll post link when I'm not in mobile. 



The axle tethers are $219.  Kingping is $199.  That's about $420 for the whole setup.  Same price as Speedway. 



MoOpenwheel
August 18, 2017 at 08:15:16 AM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on August 17 2017 at 04:19:08 PM

Kingpin to kingpin tethers are $200 from butlerbuilt and $240 from Amick (amick is the compay that supplied the tethers to C&R)

The radius rod tethers from Amick are $110 each.  So the Amick system is $360 to outfit the car and axle. 

The frame to axle clamp tethers from butlerbuilt with the axle clamps are $220 for the pair. So the butlerbuilt system  is $420 to outfit the car and axle. 

 

The butlerbuilt system is a little bit less crappy in design than the amick system because of the axle clamps, instead of bolting to the outside of the radius rod bolts on the front axle pick ups. I say less crappy because the tether systems that are approved right now still place the drivers of the cars in much more danger. I agree that the safety added for fans is much better today than before the tethers. 

 



Both systems have issues with their axle tethers.  The Amick ones are dependent on the radius rod bolts not breaking as well as the rod mount not tearing off the axle.  The Bulter ones are dependent on the axle not bending or breaking right in the clamp and turning the clamp loose.  



Keyboard Jockey
August 18, 2017 at 08:37:59 AM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 430
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Posted By: MoOpenwheel on August 18 2017 at 08:15:16 AM

Both systems have issues with their axle tethers.  The Amick ones are dependent on the radius rod bolts not breaking as well as the rod mount not tearing off the axle.  The Bulter ones are dependent on the axle not bending or breaking right in the clamp and turning the clamp loose.  



I agree, which is why I said the butler one is less crappy. Again I commend the people that came up with the idea, I just dont think the trade off on driver safety is worth it. Thank God no one (fan or driver) has been injured as a direct result of the tethers that I know of. I think this project needs to hit the drawing board again for revisions for the sake of everyone's safety. I think it can be done better, IMHO. If you look at the cars in the pits I would say that half of the tether systems are installed incorrectly if you look at the manufacturers instructions for manditory proper installation. 




MoOpenwheel
August 18, 2017 at 09:43:38 AM
Joined: 07/27/2005
Posts: 637
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Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on August 18 2017 at 08:37:59 AM

I agree, which is why I said the butler one is less crappy. Again I commend the people that came up with the idea, I just dont think the trade off on driver safety is worth it. Thank God no one (fan or driver) has been injured as a direct result of the tethers that I know of. I think this project needs to hit the drawing board again for revisions for the sake of everyone's safety. I think it can be done better, IMHO. If you look at the cars in the pits I would say that half of the tether systems are installed incorrectly if you look at the manufacturers instructions for manditory proper installation. 



I know exactly what you mean by incorrect mounting.  I saw several at Knoxville not mounted per instructions including some WOO cars.  Wrapping around the radiator upright isn't go to keep it attached to the car when the car breaks behind that and when it happens it's usually behind that.  Maybe that's why they do it that way.  Smile  



Nickules
August 18, 2017 at 10:00:13 AM
Joined: 08/05/2015
Posts: 1133
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Posted By: MoOpenwheel on August 18 2017 at 09:43:38 AM

I know exactly what you mean by incorrect mounting.  I saw several at Knoxville not mounted per instructions including some WOO cars.  Wrapping around the radiator upright isn't go to keep it attached to the car when the car breaks behind that and when it happens it's usually behind that.  Maybe that's why they do it that way.  Smile  



Not only not installed correctly, but how many aren't the "approved"/mandated tether systems (i.e. Butler Built or CRA) .  Seen that, A LOT too, but it's not "caught."  Even seen "homemade" tethers that passed tech.





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