Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Both Madsens blew motors on the first night of The Outlaws Program along with David Gravel who had a failed engine on Thursday Evening coming back with a Victory.. But Fridays Outlaw Show was a Different Beast. Gravel Blew up an additional 3 engines. With his count of 4 Down in Volusia. Why are so many engines seizing here. PPM also lost a couple. 

People are saying Sea Level and Humidity! Is That really a Thing at Volusia? 

It's always been a problem at Volusia.  I think it's one of the reasons why, even though they get a good field they don't get more than the mid-30's in cars.

It gets even worse when the track is a little heavy and the temps go down into the 40's (even 30's) at night.  Also the size and shape of the track make it tough on motors even before the other stuff is factored in. The night a few years ago when McMahon broke the track record, I'm surprised they didn't all blow up.

Opinion:  I own 360 and 410 sprints.  Every team capable of running competitievly has a weather station to show current air density at the track.  Our 5 year old Computech handheld cost roughly $300.00.  The main and high speed jets and pressure settings are easily changed and adjusted for in minutes.  Each engine received from a competent builder comes with a fuel jetting sheet for various air quality.  CJB didn't forget to check their jets through four engines, and if you are way off with the jetting, you often have a stumble or heating problem the driver would notice long before you would burn a piston.  Hopefully.  The settings are very close, they would have to have something plumbed wrong to lose engines in succession like that.  No air will be that far off anywhere, and I doubt where they are tonight is harder on engines than say, Eldora.Opinion

Being at low elevation or next to the ocean doesn't gaurantee "heavy air".  For example, the density altitude at Daytona right now is 1,124 feet, where as Sonoma Raceway is at 121' right now.  Sonoma is probably 50-100' higher elevation than Daytona but similar distance to the ocean.  San Francisco Bay in the case of Sonoma.  The air density is changing everywhere as we speak. If interested, you can get current conditions for various racetracks at AirDensityOnline.com and look for track results, or Google it.  The teams used their handheld weather stations in the pits tonight. I look at ours half a dozen times a night.

Losing an engine is most often valve train related.  You can have a rare crank, rod or piston failure, but most good teams have their engines rebuilt long before that would happen.  Valve train is the weak link and CJB's engine builder, who is one of the best, could have made a change to gain power accross all of their engines that turns out ot be failing on the track.  Dynos our builders use don't replicate track conditions and quick acting loads.  Something such as a little more compression, tighter piston to valve setting, lighter valves, more cam lift, lighter rocker arms, lighter pistons/pins/rods/cranks etc. can all cause failures when you are trying to gain a HP advantage. Your engine builder is always looking for more power and trying to win with WoO you are going to take chances or get left behind.  Evrything is close to th elimit in these engines.  Much of the reason your local racer looks so bad against the Outlaws is they can't afford the risks of the latest cutting edge horsepower ratings because you have to break a few engines to get to the next level.  Every old racer remebers Karl blowing engines for a short period of time, then being faster after he figured out how to make his change survive.

No biggy. This is almost unheard of with the perfect unimprovable sbc and they're dirt cheap compared to Fords anyways. Next subject. 

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Jesus. 4 blown motors in the first 3-4 races of the year has got to put even the highest funded outlaw team behind the 8 ball.

A blown motor is sort of a broad term.  Anything that breaks in motor is called a blown motor.  It could be a brolen valve spring  and piston hit valve,  could be just a broken rocker arm, or a broken rod sticking out side of block.  It might cost you $300.00 to fix or $20,000 to fix.  We call these blown motors as a general term.  Today air has nothing to do with it as all teams know about air.

I have heard of guys talking about how bad their fuel pumps look and things like that when they come back from Florida every year, finer dust and dirt that get through the filters compared to other areas in the country?

 From talking to a few people down there the majority of the engines were burnt pistons.

 Florida has been notoriously hard on engines and keeping on top of the fueling is more critical there than anywhere else.

$20,000?............... sounds like a Ford figure to me.  Certainly no one is spending $20,000 to fix the ultra affordable chevs.  Aren't they only like 50 bucks to begin with.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Minthess,  why do you insist on making hoseheads so damn unpleasant? Sure I can try to ignore you, but how hard would it be for you to stop being an ass?  

Thanks for the reliable info.  Although from California we have run with USAC in Fl and will be more conservative on fuel settings.  Never had a failure there, but we have had the underside of the pistons show more heat at rebuild on an engine last run in central Florida. We didn't specifcally attribute it to running there, maybe should have.

I went to Volusia a few years ago & Dollansky was way ahead when he blew his engine with a few laps to go. All I could think of was that I would be pissed off if I spent $40,000 on an engine & it didn't make  20 miles...

because there is too much stress on Qualifying during WoO shows.  Bigger tracks need more fuel, some teams won't adjust properly to make motors perform a tick better, now they have a burnt piston from being too lean.  Car owners don't adjust the fuel, that's probably the worst problem.

do it in the dirt