Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Since everyone loves these so so much, saw a bunch of headlines last night and today about Larson potentially being the front runner to replace Jimmie Johnson in the 48 for Hendrick. Apparently the word is that Rick Hendrick, who has some leverage with Chevy, might be trying to use his influence to convince them to approve Larson to drive the 48. Might be a deal where he is ok to drive but is not an exclusive Chevy driver that gets all of the benefits of being a Chevy branded driver.

Of course this could go the way of all of the SHR talk which started off as Larson being a strong contender to the 14 to suddenly SHR wanting to retain all current drivers. If it is however true and this does get done (Ally is signed with Hendrick for a couple more years), we could see the last of Larson on dirt for awhile. Rick Hendrick has been notorious of not letting his drivers run extracurricular events. If he gets signed by Hendrick, we probably will see him race less events than what he did when he was with Ganassi. A lot of things have to happen for this to happen.

https://247sports.com/Article/Kyle-Larson-NASCAR-return-rumors-Hendrick-Motorsports-frontrunner-2021-Jimmie-Johnson-replacement-Cup-Series-151491118/#

This is terrible news and hopefully does not come to pass. 

As much as I would hate for Kyle to go to the 48, he should be committed to an asylum if he didn't take that opportunity if granted to him----whether he got to drive on the dirt during his tenure or not.  Too much $$$ and opportunity to pass up.  For his sake, and his family's, I hope he gets the chance.  For my own selfish reasons, I hope he goes to SHR in 2022 and gets to run a full WoO schedule next season.  Either way, he would be setting himself up financially to run his KLR sprint car team and have a future on dirt at a relatively young age should he choose to do so.  Contrary to popular belief, he is not set up financially to do either without some additional money from a higher racing series.  (Or a very generous donor or sponsor)  I don't see the KLR outlaw team on tour next year without a Nascar deal.  JMO

Well now I'm curious what the benefits of being an exclusive Chevy driver are? Do you get a plaque and a secret decoder ring? Discount at the concession stand?

Basically it comes down to free cars from what one of the journalist had said. If you are under the label you get cars which can be exchanged for newer models later, plus arranged rental cars. Probably some money comes along with it through endorsements in such. In the grand scheme of things nothing to really lose sleep over if he is not signed as it just has some added perks to it. It more or less allows the manufacture to say "yes he drives our car but we do not necessarily endorse it."

This is a difficult concept for some to wrap their heads around.  I can't tell you how many people thought he could never drive or own a car with a Chevy in it because he was "banned."  Chevy doesn't have the power to tell him what he can or cannot buy and drive.  They can tell him they won't back him or throw money his way, but he can buy whatever he wants to race.  So, to have people ask why it's a big deal to have, or not have, Chevy's endorsement is mind boggling to me.  Big difference in operating $$$$ and R&D $$$$.  But, if Hendrick wants to do a little extra funding, he can get by without the Chevy emblem on the car.  

I've never been a Hendrick fan and this probably would make me less of one if he does sign with Hendrick and is not really allowed to race Sprint Cars anymore, or at least the volume he had prior to this year. But like you said, he is basically an idiot if he does not take the opportunity if it is offered to him. He wants to be in Nascar, has said so many times even though that may hurt some dirt fan's feelings.

I do not know if the $$$ will be as big as it would have been prior to his mistake or if it will be close to what he was making prior at Ganassi. He may actually make less than Byron & Bowman if he signs as many were stating that Hendrick would go down to 3 full time cars. I think what makes him even more attractive to Hendrick other than his talent, is the fact he could come cheap. Same aspect as we see in the NFL when a player screws up making $10M/yr, gets released, then gets signed for maybe $2M/yr. Hendrick might be in the catbird seat now if SHR cannot find sponsorship to sign him which is a tall order. Hendrick has much more sway when it comes to sponsorship especially in the manufacture side of things than any other owner. Plus outside of Chase Elliott now, the other two drivers I do not see as long term championship contenders so he needs another quality driver. Outside of maybe Erik Jones who has had good equipment his whole career, there really is not anyone from a standpoint that is close to Larson.

If he does go to the 48, my two cents bet is that we will still see him in some dirt stuff.  Maybe not as much as when he was in the 42, but I don't believe he'll be willing to give it up completely

As Nick14 pointed out, the kind of deal that is said to be in the works would come without a free Chevy or representing the company in any way.  Basically it's as if they were saying "OK, you can use a Chevy motor but that is all you get". 

Hendrick is a top team and as has been mentioned would put an end to all but a handful of Sprint Car starts.  By my way of thinking a ride with Hendrick would take Kyle Larson into his early 40's before the NASCAR obsession with young drivers ejects him.  Unfortunately from a Sprint Car watching standpoint I am at an age where I might not be around to see Kyle come back to dirt permanently but it would be something for the younger fans to look forward to. 

Larson has said that his motivation running the dirt like a man on a mission was to send a message to the NASCAR world.  It's obvious that he is good but it was also obvious that he was going to push his car to the very edge every time he raced to accomplish that goal.  I and others on this board have commented that it would be difficult to carry that kind of intensity through an entire World of Outlaws season.  Personally I think whatever is going to happen with Kyle will happen prior to the 2021 Daytona 500 and the supsension won't last into 2022.  NASCAR owners have been sitting back watching the same streaming races as we have and licking their chops at the prospect of signing Larson.  They saw enough to impress them and now we're seeing reports that indicate they can't wait any longer and are trying to make it work sooner than later. 

If Mr. Hendrick is able to convince Kyle to limit his dirt track racing it tells me two things.  One is that Hendrick was able to make something happen that Tony couldn't and secondly that Kyle missed that paycheck more than we dirt fans might want to believe.

Stan Meissner

I would add one more thing Stan, If kyle took a deal like this it would be to secure his future income to be able to continue supporting the dirt track scene. We all know they wont be able to take it out of his heart. I would guess Kyle is looking at some long term goals and figuring out how to make it happen. 

I dont give a crap about NASCAR, but I hope he gets this ride, we will see how good he really is in a top car at the top level in NASCAR. 

You may be right.  I would still sway towards SHR vs. Hendrick.  However, he needs to take ANYTHING he can get (in a top tier ride) to get the Nascar $$$ flowing.  And, as I, and 2 others pointed out, he will be in a position again in the future to play in the dirt full time.  Even if that means time away for a short while.  

As far as the #48 not being a premier ride, I believe it is every bit as well funded and quality of a car as any of the other 3 Hendrick cars.  Jimmie Johnson has just finally met father time.  This is what Kyle needs in Nascar:  1.  A quality car with 4 wheels   2.   A motor that is not going to expire more than 1 or 2 times per season--preferably not during the playoffs    3.  A crew that doesn't lose him 4 or 5 spots each pit stop.   If he gets those 3 things, put a cardboard cutout in the crew chief's seat during the races and let him drive.  (I am of course exaggerating as I know the guy in that seat is very important----but I think you get my message)

The paycheck may be one thing but I think a lot of people underestimate how much of a fan of Nascar Kyle was and has been. He has said as much and has said it was a dream of his to be in Nascar but some fans in the sprint car & dirt track world feel that isn't true even though he has said as much. Conversely there are some fans in the Nascar world who devalue the dirt track/sprint car world and view it as minor league when it is not. It is how fans can get when really, drivers can like more than one form of racing. I have no doubt in my mind that preference wise Kyle has Sprint cars #1 and then probably Nascar #2. The money is one thing but I think it is the challenge as well to succeed on a National stage.

I think we should know by around November or early December. This could very well be a smoke screen for Hendrick to maybe lower the price on a contract for Erik Jones as people have listed him as a possible driver in the 48. However as you said Stan, these owners even if they have not been watching the races, they have heard about them and have seen highlights. They would be lying to themselves if they said that any driver that is still available (and in some cases currently under contract) is better than Kyle Larson. If they value performance and wanting to make their team/organization better he is the obvious choice. As has been stated though the thing that makes it harder in Nascar is the whole sponsorship curveball that I am sure a lot of them are trying to figure out a way around.

They keep sending out feelers to see what the reaction may be. If the manufacturers or the business community don't want him he won't be going in 2021. If the reaction is positive he's the best driver available by far. 

I want to see Kyle Larson run the Indy.  I also want to see the Indy be the old Indy, so maybe it don't matter.  Some will get that.

If Larson goes back to Cup in the 48 car, would love to see Shane Stewart back in the Silva #57 next year.

Larson's 2021 ride is not with SHR.  Larosn has had something lined up for a while now and I'm guessing it will be in the 48 car.

Just the way that car has sat with an open seat for sometime, and a suitable driver in Erik Jones available, it just leads me to think that Mr. H and Larson have a deal and are just waiting for the right time to announce it. 

The 43 opening this week eliminates that one for me and unless Justin Marks is going to field a competitive car, I have a hard time seeing Larson going there even with their relationship.

I have a few random thoughts on this.

This is an "I'll believe it when I see it" type of deal.  I think as people have seen in the past, these stories don't mean a whole bunch until they're official.  If they were really intent on making this happen, why would they leak anything to anyone until it was official?  I remember when Dale Jr. went to Hendrick (I was a much bigger NASCAR fan back then) there was nothing leaked or even speculated until a few hours before the press conference.  Sometimes there is some truth to these stories but my guess would be it's more about sending a message to other drivers.  It also could be Larson or Larson's representatives trying to send a message, saying Hendrick will give me a chance, maybe you guys want to re think giving up on me? 

In my opinion Hendrick Motorsports would be the best place for him.  First, I never thought that Hendrick would touch him since they seem so image consious.  But if a guy like Rick Hendrick endorses Larson that will change a lot of people's minds.

I'm sure this isn't totally unique today but I heard at one point that Hendrick never has an issue getting sponsors because it's a two way street.  Basically what he has the ability to do that many other owners don't is he can go to a company like Quaker State and say I'd like you to sponsor my car for the year and in that year we will only use Quaker State oil at all of our dealerships.  So it adds a lot of business to that sponsor too.  I'm sure that's how Ally came to be on Jimmie Johnson's car, now they're probably the primary lender for all of Hendrick's dealerships.  So I would think the sponsor hurdle would be much easier with Hendrick.

I'm not sure that Hendrick is necessarily a top team right now?  They haven't been performing the last few years like they used to.  I know there's a lot of things that have happened but for over 20 years they were always a championship favorite or contender, I wouldn't say they're there now.  I'm sure that could change but there's teams like Roush and Childress that once they got behind haven't seem to catch back up.

Does anyone know that Hendrick wouldn't let Larson run any sprint car races?  Shrader raced for Hendrick and raced a lot on the side too.  I'm not sure that the other drivers that have raced for Hendrick in the past had much desire to race on the side?  I haven't heard of any of them doing it after they left either?

Does anyone know for sure that Stewart would let Larson race as much as he wanted in a sprint car?  I only ask this because I don't hear of any of his current drivers doing that.  Also Stewart experienced first hand how sprint car racing made him miss NASCAR races a couple different times.  I would think that would be a tough conversation to have with the sponsor about how after you were certain to be a championship contender, you can't race because you got hurt in another racecar.

It will be interesting to see what happens these next few months.

Hendrick definately has a lot of pull with some of the sponsors as you said with Quarker State and Ally was formally GMAC which has been on his cars for years so there is a long standing relationship and trust between the two. Plus in the past Hendrickcars.com has sponsored a race or two for certain drivers. I also it is a believe it when you see type thing as just because someone is trying to talk on your behalf, doesn't mean that the job will get done. With as many people that have reported and confirmed, I think there is merit that Hendrick is trying to figure someway to get an opportunity to get Larson whether it be negotitation strategy with other drivers, or if we he really wants him.

I do not feel Hendrick would be considered a top team right now as I believe I would put SHR, Gibbs, and Penske all ahead of them. They are however the top Chevrolet team which really isn't saying much these days. Outside of Chase Elliott, that team has really underperformed the past 3 or so years, especially in the playoff format. I am sure there is some pressure from Chevrolet as to how they went from being a factor in every race and every championship to having only 4 wins this year across all teams, and only 21 top 5s. Was a point in time when you had all 4 teams around the top 10 each week with Johnson always in the top 5 unless they wrecked. The equipment is there, I am not sure the talent is there or at least has matured enough and at this point 3-4 seasons into Bowman & Byron, you really cannot wait for it to happen now and I am not sure that Jones would be the person that gets you 3-5wins each year out of the gate. Not to say Larson would either but Hendrick could tell Chevrolet if you want to contend, you need a driver and the best one available now is Larson.

As far as the extracurricular racing, I think some of the Hendrick stuff has to do with Kasey stating in the past he was only allowed to race certain times and had to ask permission. I think Stewart would let him do it more often than any other owner but then again the difference was Stewart owned part of the organization. A number of those sponsors were on his sprint car (whether it was an added perk or not for the SHR sponsorship) so they were aware of it when they happened and knew the risks before they happened. But then again it could be a do as I say not as I do thing if he went to SHR as well.

I always forget about Kasey Kahne driving for Hendrick.  I knew for years it was always the belief that Hendrick wouldn't let his drivers drive in other races but then I heard Jeff Gordon talking one time about always wanting to race the Indy 500 and by the time he got an opportunity to do it with a team he was comfortable with he felt it wouldn't be fair because it had changed so much (whatever that means?) but I got the impression that was still well he was racing.  Of coarse Jeff Gordon had a little more equity to ask to do other racing than other drivers would.  But I don't think Jeff Gordon has raced anything once he retired either.

I don't see Hendrick as a top team right now either.  But I think they had the worst case scenario.  They had most of their established, experienced, talented drivers who retired within a couple years of eachother.  Then they changed to the Camaro which seems strange that it would be that big of an issue but it has been for every Chevy team.  So then they have a new model that's not as good as their old one.  Then they get all new and young drivers who are adapting to racing in the cup series, then they are also learning to work their experienced and successful crew chiefs.  All that added to a perfect storm in my opinion.  And Jimmie Johnson struggled too.  This is my opinion only and I base this just on hearing Tony Stewart and Steve Kinser say similar things about how they just couldn't get the feel of the new tires.  But I don't believe when a driver gets older that they forget how to drive but I think they have a harder time adapting.  For example if you could somehow get all 80s or 90s sprint cars with the same tires and technology from back then, my guess is Steve Kinser would still run circles around racers today.  But I do think at some point Hendrick will get back to the point they were.  But 15 years ago when Roush had half of the cars in the chase, I never would've guessed they would be in the position they are today.  So who knows?

All great points by you and Nick.  Some things I'll add:

I do believe Hendrick is a top team who hasn't found that next Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson to fill the seat.  Bowman and Byron are kinda "meh" and Chase is a very good driver who is in Nascar because of the last name.  But, he's not a great driver, just "very-good."   Jimmie Johnson is like Tom Brady.  Serviceable, but not going to put the team on his shoulders.  The other teams are ahead right now because they have all of the talent.  Let's face it, there is a resume with Harvick, Truex, Hamlin, Busch, Keso, etc, etc.   Hendrick's team includes a driver on his farewell tour, and 2 drivers who did well in Xfinity.  It's not like Hendrick went out and signed that "free-agent" veteran.  He's trying to catch lightning in a bottle like he's done in the past and it didn't work with these 2 drivers.   He's also not had great luck signing proven free-agent drivers either.  

As for Hendrick letting Larson drive sprint cars, I seem to remember Jeff Gordon making a comment one time about Rick not even letting him ride jet skis during the season.  I'm not sure if I dreamt that, but I seem to remember this conversation on TV 15 years or so ago.  Did I make this up in my head?   I don't remember.   I do believe SHR would allow him to at least do what Chip let him do.  

JMO though.