Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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http://www.knoxvilleraceway.com/Article/2151/brian-brown-is-back-on-top-at-knoxville

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This isn't any kind of shot whatsoever at Knoxville, but it's a bummer to see a 21-car 410 field (with a couple outsiders in the field) and an 18-car 360 field at Knoxville

55 sprint cars in 2018 

The same night in 2014 they had 83 cars thats -28 cars whats going on at Knoxville?

Lucky to have Mcarl and Phillips families with 6 cars.Bronsen quit and Sonners were there for many years Marty Johnson has scaled back.The cost of motors doesnt help and the WOO guys get tow money even if they only get $800 to start if they are one of the regular teams.It cost $1000+ a night to just compete with no problems.$4000 for a weekly show to win is higher than most. Knoxville is still without a doubt the best and safest place to race sprint cars and the tradition is second to none.

High dollar engines.

Shortie brought up several of the drivers/teams that aren't around any longer.   In addition, Lasoski is without a ride, Ian Madsen is with the WoO now, BDS Motorsports is on the ASCS tour, etc.    Hopefully this will turn around for Knoxville.   I also didn't see Kerry Madsen's name in there either, but I'd think he'll be running Knoxville somewhat regularly.  

Until the tracks around the country decide bending over for the WoO has gone far enough, sprint car racing I'm afraid at the local level will continue to decline. IT COSTS TOO @#$%^&* MUCH! It may already be too late to reverse the trend. It's a big money sport these days and not enough big money to go around for the racer. But relax folks, as the WoO gets stronger those hungering for a 410 sprint car show will have a couple races a year to look forward to. And this is a trickle down theory to the 360's, also, if costs there aren't soon addressed. And to think......we really enjoyed the 410 racing at Knoxville when lap times were in the high 16 second low 17 second bracket! Really......we did!

Blazer00 is 100% right the writing has been on the wall for a long time but the promoters just keep sticking their in the sand when it comes to rules for the 410's & 360's to cut cost it will be interesting to see what Jackson gets for a car count even with the new track size I doubt they will see 18 410's for a regular show  and who knows about the 360's 15 to 18 cars   GM

I know the answer to this question is often money, but why did Bronsen Maeschen step away? From afar, he seemed like a rising star at Knoxville when he won the 410 track title a few years ago.

I agree with what you're saying completely.  I'm sure there's a reason for following these rules, I would guess they (the promoter) would say "the guys can run any WOO show or how many other 410 shows" or "running the WOO rules saves the teams money since they can buy used parts from the guys who run on the WOO circuit" (I don't know if they use these reasons it's just a guess).  To the second point, do many local 410 teams buy used parts at all or are they buying all new stuff?  My guess would be the top local 410 teams are buying all new stuff.  I wonder if they made some major changes to save costs, if the top local teams would just not race around here?  Maybe it's up to the outlaws to try to "cheapen" the sport up to try to save local racing?

Yep, all horsepower. Double edge sword, but a lot of the blame gets put on the Nascar driver funded teams. Their willingness to write Parker, Shaver, Kistler, Speedway, ect bottomless checks, drives the cost up for everyone. If KKR buys motors at 60k+, guess what... thats what local Johnny now has to pay as well for the same power.The mega teams now set the market on engine costs. Sure a guy could probably buy a used 410, for say 25K and head to Knoxville... but if you are down 50-75 hp to everyone else, and 3-4 tenths off the pace.... what sense does that make? Horspower is at a premium, set by what the mega teams are willing to pay, at a track like Knoxville where every last bit of hp counts. Thats a dangerous formula for any local weekly show.

Funny thing, that horsepower. Make certain changes to the rule book regarding wings, wing angles, tires and such, and the big horsepower engines are useless. If you can't put all that power to the track and maintain control, it's not effective. Now of course, if you really enjoy seeing the guy who most mirrors the setup of a slot car win the race, then keep the horsepower and current rules and watch the fields continue to shrink. On the other hand, put more driver back into the car, reduce horsepower and costs, and I think the car counts will begin to increase. I wonder, with the escalating high costs of engines, high tech parts and special metals, combined with the declining car counts, how long will it be until those suppliers begin to dwindle in numbers and go out of business? Maybe they should be paying attention, also.

Engine costs are always the go to answer for these types of questions, and I don't doubt that is the right answer.

But, how do you change rules tied to engines to decrease the cost without making the current engines obsolete?  I would think this would be a very difficult thing to handle (I'm not an engine builder, so I don't know).  Are there rules changes that would still allow the engines of today to have value after the rules changes were implemented?  If not, you're going to have a bunch of frustrated racers sitting on six figures worth of engines that aren't worth a damn.  That's a hard sell to the sport, as well.

Harder, skinnier tires?

 adding on to a track that uses 1/20th of their seating on a regular night is a nascar move.

The HOF walls are plastered with shrines to drivers who never turned a 17 second lap in their entire careers.  I'm afraid the sport has sold out to a generation of speed freaks. 

Stan Meissner

I don't know the specific reason but I can offer some speculation on a variety of things that can derail a racing career.  Money obviously comes first, some guys eventually figure out that investing in a boat or motorhome makes a helluva lot more sense than owning a Sprint Car.  Sometimes family isn't happy with the racing, not every wife can handle watching the family breadwinner doing endos half way down the front stretch.  A lot of times drivers look around at their situation whether it's family, a business or whatever it is it begins to take a more prominant role in their life.  Some had car owners, the owners get out of it and they can't put together a competitive deal so they sit out or quit entirely.  Some get into their 50's, lose a step and know when it's time for them to walk away and do other things.

I look at it this way.  These drivers and car owners are out there spending a lot more than they make and they don't owe us anything.  If their life goes in another direction and they were competitive yeah, it's a shame to see them leave but I'm happy that they entertained us.  If I mourned the loss of drivers I'd be in a lot of trouble because I've seen hundreds come and go since I started going to races.  Actually same goes with series and tracks, not much is the same now as it was in 1960 when I was introduced to the sport.

There are a lot of challenges these drivers face that are not spoken about on these forums. Most of them are working a full time job and a bad crash could set them back significantly and affect their ability to make a living.  I think there's a lot of these Saturday night heroes working all week and busting their ass to race.  Anyone who has had a part time job or done any type of double duty knows how exhausting that can be. 

I watched on Saturday night and noted the shorter than normal fields and thought the same thing.  My enthusiasm about all the things going on on the Iowa, Minnesota and South Dakota area was tempered a few years ago by these kinds of realities to the point where I was chastised for even suggesting I'd take a wait and see approach.  I'm not claiming to be a prognosticator, I've just seen so many things come and go in my time that I don't get that excited anymore.  The costs are certainly a factor, when the all time Feature winner is sitting home on Saturday nights and is still at an age where he could be driving to me that is problematic.  It is after all the center of Sprint Car racing so I hope things pick up as the weeks go on.

Stan Meissner

One thing I forgot to mention that I have often said in regard to some of the Stock Car and Modified tracks up in my area that dealt with the problem of dwindling car counts.  There is a tipping point and I'm not sure where that is but a tipping point where car counts steadily decline until fan interest starts to decline as well.  I have seen that combined with some sanction politics that have pretty much changed the local landscape up here in the past 20 years. 

Stan Meissner

Interesting thought.........with the cost of a rebuild every 6-8 races at $10,000-$12,000 or more seems to me those high priced engines are on the verge of obsolete as it is . I would think those engines could be "refreshed" at a lower HP rating, that would probably extend the life of the engine, and make that a cost effective measure in itself. I doubt the current $60,000 engine would be totally worthless. But then I don't build or rebuild them, so I don't know that as a fact. Bring the costs down enough and the savings makes up for any potential loss anyway. 

I thought getting rid of Goodyear was going to solve all these problems? Remember that BS? Talk about penny wise but pound foolish....