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Topic: Jackson 3/8ths Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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facebookstalker
September 07, 2017 at 05:39:54 PM
Joined: 06/15/2015
Posts: 264
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I just read that Jackson has cancelled its IMCA nationals to start work on the track.   The local newspaper has the GM stating they are changing down to a 3/8ths size.  Kind of sad to see the old half mile go. 




brettco
September 07, 2017 at 06:47:17 PM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 487
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Reply to:
Posted By: facebookstalker on September 07 2017 at 05:39:54 PM

I just read that Jackson has cancelled its IMCA nationals to start work on the track.   The local newspaper has the GM stating they are changing down to a 3/8ths size.  Kind of sad to see the old half mile go. 



 It might be sad to change but it will certainly make the racing closer/better for fans and cheaper for the owners. Win-win 



from a sponsor
September 07, 2017 at 07:09:30 PM
Joined: 05/19/2005
Posts: 398
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Hopefully they will also work on time management during the off season........

 



HoldenCaulfield
September 07, 2017 at 08:12:50 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 1252
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Reply to:
Posted By: brettco on September 07 2017 at 06:47:17 PM

 It might be sad to change but it will certainly make the racing closer/better for fans and cheaper for the owners. Win-win 



Agreed.



Doug Johnson
MyWebsite
September 07, 2017 at 09:06:44 PM
Joined: 11/25/2004
Posts: 20
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It will measure 4/10th

 



Murphy
September 07, 2017 at 10:03:35 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 584
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Posted By: Doug Johnson on September 07 2017 at 09:06:44 PM

It will measure 4/10th

 



Interesting.  Define 4/10th please.

Playing with Google Maps, I measure:

Jackson- "1/2 mile track"
Outside of track surface 2876'=.54 miles
Outside of racing groove 2687'=.51 miles
Inside of racing groove 2331'=.44 miles 

Park Jefferson SD- "4/10th mile track"
Outside of track surface 2409'=.46 miles
Outside of racing groove=2283'=.43 miles
Inside of racing groove 1928'=.37 miles

Rapid Speedway IA- "3/8th mile track"
Outside of track surface 2158'=.41 miles
Outside of racing groove 2000'=.39 miles
Inside of racing surface 1815'=.34 miles

Is it being fashioned after an existing track somewhere? Is the fix going to be moving the #3 & #4 turns in and having open corners like #1 & #2?



facebookstalker
September 07, 2017 at 10:42:13 PM
Joined: 06/15/2015
Posts: 264
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Posted By: Murphy on September 07 2017 at 10:03:35 PM

Interesting.  Define 4/10th please.

Playing with Google Maps, I measure:

Jackson- "1/2 mile track"
Outside of track surface 2876'=.54 miles
Outside of racing groove 2687'=.51 miles
Inside of racing groove 2331'=.44 miles 

Park Jefferson SD- "4/10th mile track"
Outside of track surface 2409'=.46 miles
Outside of racing groove=2283'=.43 miles
Inside of racing groove 1928'=.37 miles

Rapid Speedway IA- "3/8th mile track"
Outside of track surface 2158'=.41 miles
Outside of racing groove 2000'=.39 miles
Inside of racing surface 1815'=.34 miles

Is it being fashioned after an existing track somewhere? Is the fix going to be moving the #3 & #4 turns in and having open corners like #1 & #2?



This. ^^^  The track is pretty wide as it is, I'd like to know the inside distance.  



z-man
September 08, 2017 at 07:44:43 AM
Joined: 11/21/2004
Posts: 529
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This message was edited on September 08, 2017 at 07:53:43 AM by z-man

Murphy,

A not so quick answer: The size of a race track depends on who you're discussing it with. Some people measure the inside berm or guard rail, others measure the outside wall and some measure the "racing groove". The racing groove last Saturday at Jackson depends on whether you're talking about the line that Kerry Madsen ran on lap (15) or the racing groove that he ran on lap (21) when he passed (2) cars to take the lead. I like to use the "middle" of the actual racing surface. Jackson's current racing surface is (80) feet wide although the racers don't always use all (80) feet. So to me the best way to compare apples to apples is to measure the middle of the track surface. At Jackson, that would be at (40) feet.

 With that being said, here's what I can tell you. The current overall length of Jackson today, measured thru the middle of the track surface is (.49). That's why Jackson is considered to be a 1/2 mile track. I've been told by a very reliable source that Huset's measures about (.36) when measured on the very outside of the retaining wall. It's been referred to as a 3/8 mile track for years although I would consider it shorter than a 3/8.

The surveyors have told us that, when done, the new Jackson track will be in the range of (.39) measured in the very center of the track surface. So to use terms that race fans can easily identify with it will probaby be called a 4/10's (.40) race track.

It is not designed to replicate any other race track. I doubt there are (2) dirt ovals anywhere in the country that are identical. We are simply moving turns (3) and (4) in and leaving turns (1) and (2) the way they are and leaving the straightaways where they are and we are leaving the banking as is. We feel this will create more exciting racing and the cars will still be able to keep their momentum up thru the sweeping corners and I'm thinking when the World of Outlaws come to town next June that they'll be running somewhere in the mid (12) seconds for laps times. Imagine (24) cars in the Main and the leaders having to deal with lap traffic a few laps into the race and thru out the remainder of the race.

I've seen a lot of different race tracks over the years and I've seen some great races and a few no so great races on the same tracks. In my opinion, it isn't the shape or design of the track but rather the car counts and track prep. I believe that car counts and track prep have more to do with the quality of the race program.

We hope the race fans will come check out the new Jackson Motorplex in 2018 and I think the vast majority of them will like what they see. We wish all race teams the best of luck to their remaining race season and hope the fans enjoy the same...z

Chuck Zitterich - Race Director/Jackson Motorplex 



blazer00
September 08, 2017 at 08:12:29 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1288
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^^^^^.   Sounds like the perfect solution for those who didn't want the old half mile to go away (I was one of those), and for those who wanted a shorter track. So far everything that has taken place at the new Jackson Motorplex has been great.....I can't help but believe this will also. Looking forward to next season!



slideguy
September 08, 2017 at 09:05:10 AM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 373
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This should really help with the car counts.  It sounds like it is supposed to be an exact replica of Park Jefferson.  Now teams can run Jackson Friday and Park Jefferson Saturday and basically have the same setup and racing.  Does Greg Baker still do track prep at both tracks?  If so, they should be able to run exactly the same.



jfgrosz
September 08, 2017 at 09:05:27 AM
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 15
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I made the drive over to Jackson from Sioux Falls several times this year and had a great time. I think the Doug Johnson and the crew over there are doing a great job!

 



dirtraceorbust
MyWebsite
September 08, 2017 at 09:31:35 AM
Joined: 10/10/2009
Posts: 457
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Should make it a small 3/8th track.  The smaller tracks, the bullrings, are where the action is and serious injuries, though they happen, they are less likely, but especially for the action. Johnny Gibson loves bullrings, he says about these small 3/8th tracks "by the 3rd lap of the feature they are into lapped traffic and that's when it gets interesting".  And keep the track as close to the fans as possible without endangering the fans.  If you've ever been to Princeton, MN bullring, gotta be a 1/4 though I think it's called a small 3/8th, man you are close to the track.  If sitting in the 1st row of the main grandstand, you can't be more than 20 feet from the track surface.  Gods truth.  Almost scary but thrilling.  Maybe they've changed it since I was there but don't think so. Sure loved the Outlaws there but have not been back for years.   Husets is a nice size 3/8th, Grand Forks Rivers Cities track a small 3/8th. These 4/10th like Vegas, I-80, Lowes, they all look and race like half mile tracks, IMO only. 


Imagine a future in which the state of California 
decides who is president every 4 years?  If that 
doesn't scare the pants off you nothing will.  

Murphy
September 08, 2017 at 09:49:32 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 584
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Reply to:
Posted By: slideguy on September 08 2017 at 09:05:10 AM

This should really help with the car counts.  It sounds like it is supposed to be an exact replica of Park Jefferson.  Now teams can run Jackson Friday and Park Jefferson Saturday and basically have the same setup and racing.  Does Greg Baker still do track prep at both tracks?  If so, they should be able to run exactly the same.



     I'd have to disagree about it being just like Park Jefferson for set up. About the only thing that might be the same would be refering to it as 4/10th mile track.

     Looking at the 'ol Google maps again, and minding what Z-man say s above:

PJ might be a longer track in the racing groove
Jackson looks to be a lot wider 80' verses about 55'
Jackson looks to have straight straitaways, PJ's are more curved

In addition, the banking is probably different and Jackson has Minnesota dirt while PJ would have SD dirt. That probably makes a big difference in how the track surface starts and ends the night.

I'd guess that the set up changes wouldn't be as radical as changing to a 4/10th track from the 9/32nd track that is Husets (and may again someday be).



slideguy
September 08, 2017 at 10:15:47 AM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 373
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If they are going to keep the front and back straightaway walls in place and just pull in 3/4 and make it .39 like Chuck says, and the plans are to leave the front straights and back straights the same, then it is going to have to be almost exactly the same size.

At .39miles in the middle If you measure the lenghth ( apex of 1/2 to apex of 3/4 ) that length is 895 feet vs Park's 847 feet.  The width, from the back wall to the front wall (middle of front straightaway to middle of back straightaway)  is 547 vs Parks 534.  If you guess the turn radius, I calculate Jacksons turn 1 from entrance to exit at 755 feet vs Park's 734.  While it won't be indential.  I also used Google Earth for these measurements so I believe they are pretty darn accurate.

The only way they aren't the same size if if Jackson decides to monkey with the size and bring the backstretch wall in.  Otherwise they will have to make it the same size.

 

 



BigRightRear
September 08, 2017 at 10:26:39 AM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3650
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get rid of all the half miles IMO...widen EVERY track for multiple groove and increase the banking...and give us good sight lines.

you want to watch drag races, go to the drag races...


Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Murphy
September 08, 2017 at 10:32:31 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 584
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Reply to:
Posted By: slideguy on September 08 2017 at 10:15:47 AM

If they are going to keep the front and back straightaway walls in place and just pull in 3/4 and make it .39 like Chuck says, and the plans are to leave the front straights and back straights the same, then it is going to have to be almost exactly the same size.

At .39miles in the middle If you measure the lenghth ( apex of 1/2 to apex of 3/4 ) that length is 895 feet vs Park's 847 feet.  The width, from the back wall to the front wall (middle of front straightaway to middle of back straightaway)  is 547 vs Parks 534.  If you guess the turn radius, I calculate Jacksons turn 1 from entrance to exit at 755 feet vs Park's 734.  While it won't be indential.  I also used Google Earth for these measurements so I believe they are pretty darn accurate.

The only way they aren't the same size if if Jackson decides to monkey with the size and bring the backstretch wall in.  Otherwise they will have to make it the same size.

 

 



    First let me chuckle at the idea of 2 strangers discussing the size of a racetrack based on images taken from outter space. That is almost mind blowing. Marty McFly and Doc Brown back 1985 would even be amazed.

     Check your Google map measurements. I come up with about 547 feet from the outside back wall and front walls on the straights. You show that number as being from the middle of the straights. 

     As far as the length goes, according to Chuck they are shortening the track .1 mile=528 feet. Split that in half, and you are moving #3 & #4 corners 264 feet.



slideguy
September 08, 2017 at 10:58:33 AM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 373
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"Middle of the staightaways" meaning the measurement was taken halfway between 1-2 and 3-4, or basically flagstand to back wall.  Park doens't have a wall so you guess where the edge is.

I based it on Chucks statement of .39 miles middle, retaining turn 1-2 the same size and the front stretch and back stretch the same size.  I don't see any way that math allows you to do this without them being the same size.  Now they can still do it .39 miles, but unless they change the corner, or pull the backstretch in or push the fronstretch out which results in tighter corners like I 80 has, it cannot be anything but the same size.

I do wish they would go closer ti I 80s size as that allows for tighter corners, but that isn't what I believe they are doing based on Chucks statement.



Murphy
September 08, 2017 at 12:57:46 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 584
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Reply to:
Posted By: slideguy on September 08 2017 at 10:58:33 AM

"Middle of the staightaways" meaning the measurement was taken halfway between 1-2 and 3-4, or basically flagstand to back wall.  Park doens't have a wall so you guess where the edge is.

I based it on Chucks statement of .39 miles middle, retaining turn 1-2 the same size and the front stretch and back stretch the same size.  I don't see any way that math allows you to do this without them being the same size.  Now they can still do it .39 miles, but unless they change the corner, or pull the backstretch in or push the fronstretch out which results in tighter corners like I 80 has, it cannot be anything but the same size.

I do wish they would go closer ti I 80s size as that allows for tighter corners, but that isn't what I believe they are doing based on Chucks statement.



OK, I get it now. You were talking about middle of the straightaways east/west and I was thinking north/south.

As I reread Chuck's explanation I read it as the straightaways being in the same place, just shorter. That makes logical sense, as it's probably the easiest and most economical way to shorten the track, given the exising infrastructure. All they have to do is attach a big ol' skyhook to the #3 & #4 turns and drag them east a ways. Actual construction might be a tad more involved.


Chuck- By now I assume the surveyors have developed some sort of CAD drawing of the proposed layout change. Is there any drawing you could share?



BigRightRear
September 08, 2017 at 01:39:32 PM
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 3650
Reply
I remember a thread from years back where the actual measurements we took with an architect's measuring wheel that are in my signature were disputed by one of my fan club...only to have another fella log on and confirm these measurements with google earth tallies. if you think the view from a satellite is less accurate than the view from a human eye, you never met a defense contractor...
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

FORD97
September 08, 2017 at 01:53:51 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1116
Reply

A couple things:

In my head, shortening the straights without moving the backstretch or frontstretch in means the whole thing is going to look like Belleville, or nearly a complete circle. I could be wrong, but it don't feel it's been very well explained.

Jackson: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jackson+Speedway/@43.628012,-94.971378,312m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x6f86f40a519cfafb!8m2!3d43.6282825!4d-94.9704828

Belleville: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Belleville+High+Banks+Speedway+Fairgrounds/@39.833549,-97.6265253,787m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xd4bf2ec65f650270!8m2!3d39.8335651!4d-97.6264382

I'm not sure how that helps, but we'll find out.

Park Jefferson is a poor example of a 4/10 mile track. Nothing against the promoters, but the track is oddly configured for sprint cars in that it is very difficult to run anywhere other than the very top. The corners are somewhat pinched on the bottom, meaning the top is the faster groove. The track needs to be widened on the bottom.

PJ: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Park+Jefferson+Speedway+Inc/@42.5734105,-96.5245623,448m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x9462ece623044f83!8m2!3d42.5733812!4d-96.5231638

 


IBRACN: "page hits are page hits..."



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