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Topic: Schatz Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 3   of  57 replies
davemahar
March 17, 2016 at 03:41:09 PM
Joined: 01/03/2005
Posts: 1344
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Schatz puts it on the trailor rather than take a provisional. So you pay big bucks to see all the stars and the biggest picks up the ball and goes home. Thought a provisional was to allow hot shoes with bad luck into the feature so the fans could watch them.




paydirt28
March 17, 2016 at 03:56:55 PM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
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All the more reason to do away with provisionals. 



minthess
MyWebsite
March 17, 2016 at 04:02:43 PM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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It takes Ford power to pass when its that sticky.


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?


oswald
March 17, 2016 at 04:37:08 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

Stupid to have provisionals anyway. Race your way in or go home. 

If those ford Motors were so powerful why did Roush stop making them? Because nobody wanted them. Name all the big races won by one of those dominate Roush/ford power plants, please.



jdfast
March 17, 2016 at 05:48:43 PM
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 956
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Reply to:
Posted By: paydirt28 on March 17 2016 at 03:56:55 PM

All the more reason to do away with provisionals. 



+1

and if we go back to the good ole days, bring back 8 car inverts for heats and mains.   They are the best in the business, they  will figure out how to pass, and if not, transfer through the semi with zero invert/

 

 



paydirt28
March 17, 2016 at 06:20:28 PM
Joined: 01/26/2009
Posts: 795
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdfast on March 17 2016 at 05:48:43 PM

+1

and if we go back to the good ole days, bring back 8 car inverts for heats and mains.   They are the best in the business, they  will figure out how to pass, and if not, transfer through the semi with zero invert/

 

 



Agreed, and if you don't make the A, tough, I guess it wasn't your night. The talk I hear about the new WoO rules and how it elimintes the incentive to race, leaves me scratching my head.

 




Quick-time
March 17, 2016 at 06:49:30 PM
Joined: 02/27/2010
Posts: 107
Reply

He could have raced but under the new rules this season he would not have been awarded any points. He made the business decision to load up rather than race for purse money on a one groove track.  He would have spent more on fuel and tires than he probably would have won. In my opinion this helps award the points Championship to the driver who makes the Show all the time but still allows WOO regulars to race for nighly $$$ if they qualify bad or don't make it through the heat and Last Chance Showdown (B-Main).



StaggerLee
MyWebsite
March 17, 2016 at 06:50:01 PM
Joined: 05/14/2014
Posts: 645
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Reply to:
Posted By: davemahar on March 17 2016 at 03:41:09 PM

Schatz puts it on the trailor rather than take a provisional. So you pay big bucks to see all the stars and the biggest picks up the ball and goes home. Thought a provisional was to allow hot shoes with bad luck into the feature so the fans could watch them.



If Donny not taking a provisional bothers you, I'm guessing you only attend 1 or 2 races a year because anyone who goes regularly would much rather see the biggest, smallest or whoever EARN their way into a feature. Maybe you can email Donny and let him know you didn't apreciate his decision not to risk his life and ability to earn money for him and his family so you could see him make laps with no chance of earning any points towards the championship. I'm sure he will feel terrible. 



egras
March 17, 2016 at 06:54:26 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
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I don't think the point was about whether or not provisionals are stupid.  Its whether or not Schatz should have run.  He should have run.  If I had my yound son or daughter in the stands and they were Schatz fans, and he didn't run, that may have ruined it for them.  JMO.  Glad my son isn't a Schatz fan.  

Would I have run?  I would say yes but I'm not in his shoes I guess.  Would have been disappointed if I were there to see him run is all. 




oswald
March 17, 2016 at 07:47:42 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply

Yup, it's 2016. God forbid we let a child be disappointed. To avoid that happening maybe all teams that attend should be allowed to race the A main. And give them all a trophy, too!

It's a competitive sport. If you don't qualify you don't run. 



egras
March 17, 2016 at 08:41:53 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3914
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 17 2016 at 07:47:42 PM

Yup, it's 2016. God forbid we let a child be disappointed. To avoid that happening maybe all teams that attend should be allowed to race the A main. And give them all a trophy, too!

It's a competitive sport. If you don't qualify you don't run. 



Mr. Oswald--respectfully disagree--but only with your interpretation of the post.  I agree with you otherwise.  

 

Once again--this isn't about whether or not it should be allowed.  I agree with you that that rule should be changed--if you don't qualify, you don't run.  However, the rule is that he CAN take a provisional, and he had the option to run--for the money (from what I understand) and no points--for his fans that showed up to watch him run the A-main.  He did not.  That is the argument and I am open to whoever disagrees or agrees with me on the fact that he should have run.  (I would have been fine with it because I get sick of him winning-but not the point here)  I would like to see as the year goes by how many drivers use the provisional and how many do not.  ????

The argument for whether or not provisionals should be allowed is for a different day.  And it really has nothing to do with a child in 2016.  I would have been pissed in 1978.  



racedoggie
March 17, 2016 at 09:22:25 PM
Joined: 08/07/2012
Posts: 115
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Posted By: egras on March 17 2016 at 06:54:26 PM

I don't think the point was about whether or not provisionals are stupid.  Its whether or not Schatz should have run.  He should have run.  If I had my yound son or daughter in the stands and they were Schatz fans, and he didn't run, that may have ruined it for them.  JMO.  Glad my son isn't a Schatz fan.  

Would I have run?  I would say yes but I'm not in his shoes I guess.  Would have been disappointed if I were there to see him run is all. 



I think he made the right decision to not take a provisional. The reality is, he could have easily junked a car racing for 800.00 bucks. I know that when we roll a car back into the box, not jacked up fron Tulare, its a GREAT night. Save the car for another night, he obviously didn't have the car set up for the night, why bang a square peg into a round hole.




davemahar
March 17, 2016 at 10:40:25 PM
Joined: 01/03/2005
Posts: 1344
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Motor racing is a form of entertainment. Its first priority is to entertain paying customers. Owners and drivers are like jugglers abd hoofers at a vaudeville show. If a vaudeville promoter advertisd certain acts and then some of the acts decided not to perform the customers would walk out. Provisionals are a way for the promoter to ensure that the stars on the bill get in the show. Some sanctioning bodies believe that they are more important than promoters and make rules to benefit racers. Without promoters nothing would happen. Been a racing fan since 1953 and the only sannctioning body that got away with making rules for racers not promoters was the SCCA, but they were rich guys  that would make up for a small gate out of their owm pocket.

 



revjimk
March 17, 2016 at 10:56:38 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on March 17 2016 at 04:02:43 PM

It takes Ford power to pass when its that sticky.



You are truly in a dream world, my friend...

From another (but non- hallucinating) Ford fan



revjimk
March 17, 2016 at 11:01:19 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 7595
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Reply to:
Posted By: davemahar on March 17 2016 at 10:40:25 PM

Motor racing is a form of entertainment. Its first priority is to entertain paying customers. Owners and drivers are like jugglers abd hoofers at a vaudeville show. If a vaudeville promoter advertisd certain acts and then some of the acts decided not to perform the customers would walk out. Provisionals are a way for the promoter to ensure that the stars on the bill get in the show. Some sanctioning bodies believe that they are more important than promoters and make rules to benefit racers. Without promoters nothing would happen. Been a racing fan since 1953 and the only sannctioning body that got away with making rules for racers not promoters was the SCCA, but they were rich guys  that would make up for a small gate out of their owm pocket.

 



Thats one side of it, no doubt. The other side is that jugglers are not risking their lives & spending tens of thousands of $$$$




oswald
March 17, 2016 at 11:03:13 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: egras on March 17 2016 at 08:41:53 PM

Mr. Oswald--respectfully disagree--but only with your interpretation of the post.  I agree with you otherwise.  

 

Once again--this isn't about whether or not it should be allowed.  I agree with you that that rule should be changed--if you don't qualify, you don't run.  However, the rule is that he CAN take a provisional, and he had the option to run--for the money (from what I understand) and no points--for his fans that showed up to watch him run the A-main.  He did not.  That is the argument and I am open to whoever disagrees or agrees with me on the fact that he should have run.  (I would have been fine with it because I get sick of him winning-but not the point here)  I would like to see as the year goes by how many drivers use the provisional and how many do not.  ????

The argument for whether or not provisionals should be allowed is for a different day.  And it really has nothing to do with a child in 2016.  I would have been pissed in 1978.  



All true. I apologize for my rant. I hate provisionals. 

Donny made a business decision. He is racing for a championship and the money that comes with that. Why risk tearing up a car and possibly getting injured by getting caught up in someone else's accident because he had to start in the rear if there was no way that would help him win a championship. I'm sure Donny appreciates all his fans and is happy they come to see him race and buy his merch. But he has to make business decisions and this was one. Too much risk for to little possible reward. Perhaps on a wide slick track he may have raced. He had to factor in not just risk/reward but track conditions also. 

I'm willing to bet he was more disappointed to be watching that A from the pits than any of his fans were to see him watching from the pits.

As a child I too was disappointed when my hero failed to make the main event. But I would have been ashamed of him if he took a free pass into a race he could not earn his way into.



cjalger
March 17, 2016 at 11:08:39 PM
Joined: 06/12/2013
Posts: 144
Reply

I'm not particularly a Schatz guy, but criticizing him for not taking a provisional is just dumb.  



blazer00
March 17, 2016 at 11:12:45 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: davemahar on March 17 2016 at 10:40:25 PM

Motor racing is a form of entertainment. Its first priority is to entertain paying customers. Owners and drivers are like jugglers abd hoofers at a vaudeville show. If a vaudeville promoter advertisd certain acts and then some of the acts decided not to perform the customers would walk out. Provisionals are a way for the promoter to ensure that the stars on the bill get in the show. Some sanctioning bodies believe that they are more important than promoters and make rules to benefit racers. Without promoters nothing would happen. Been a racing fan since 1953 and the only sannctioning body that got away with making rules for racers not promoters was the SCCA, but they were rich guys  that would make up for a small gate out of their owm pocket.

 



That is the most stupid comparison I've ever seen! Jugglers, hoofers and vaudeville???? LOL! Provisionals have never been about the promoter! Provisionals when they exist have always been about protecting the top teams when they have an issue. Now that there are no points awarded, there is no need for provisionals unless the track is receptive to a top team going towards the front for the big money. Anybody who thinks Schatz should have gone back out doesn't have a clue as to why Schatz is on tour. He's there to win races and championships....period! What happened that night has happened many times over the years. A drowned track prepared for racing that ends up with a very limited groove, and sticks every racer firmly to the surface. Loading up was the right thing to do.




oswald
March 17, 2016 at 11:13:23 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: davemahar on March 17 2016 at 10:40:25 PM

Motor racing is a form of entertainment. Its first priority is to entertain paying customers. Owners and drivers are like jugglers abd hoofers at a vaudeville show. If a vaudeville promoter advertisd certain acts and then some of the acts decided not to perform the customers would walk out. Provisionals are a way for the promoter to ensure that the stars on the bill get in the show. Some sanctioning bodies believe that they are more important than promoters and make rules to benefit racers. Without promoters nothing would happen. Been a racing fan since 1953 and the only sannctioning body that got away with making rules for racers not promoters was the SCCA, but they were rich guys  that would make up for a small gate out of their owm pocket.

 



Motor racing is also a business for the car owners and drivers. They can not risk thousands of dollars of equipment just because some fans came just to see them race. Not if there is no real benefit for them in doing so. 

The promoter advertises you will get to see Donny race. And he did race. Just not well enough to make the A main. That is different than if he is advertised to be there and race and does not show up at the track at all.

It's like the juggler showed up as advertised but dropped the things he was juggling a time or two during his show. You got to see the advertised performance, it just was not as good as you were expecting.



Johnny Gibson
March 18, 2016 at 03:12:24 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 455
Reply

Just a couple of quick points:  Provisional starters also give up the starting money for the A-main (which was $800 on Saturday at Tulare).  So in order to make ANY money, Donny would've had to get to 16th, at which point he would've earned $100 for the A-main.   The elimination of A-main points for provisional starters was done at the request of a majority of drivers/team owners, who didn't think it was fair that a driver/team that used all four provisionals could finish higher in points than a driver/team that didn't need to use any (or needed to use fewer).





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